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New Wonders/Bonus Resources


steeldor
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I was looking at the information index when I saw new wonders and corresponding bonus resources. Does anyone know when they will be implemented? And what do people think of them? Clearly they are intended for the long term. How much do you think they will cost? I like the fact that you can either choose mars or the moon, not both. Also the resources' effects change based on your other resources. It will make nations more varied and with different paths to choose.

Edited by steeldor
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The costs as yet haven't been finalised, (although the placeholder costs were released in the locked thread here)

Don't expect much of a ROI on your Base facility.

The main draw card of the Base facility is that it will open up the door to more Lunar or Mars wonders, there are two now and hopefully more to come.

Essentially you are probably going to break even on the Base, but profit on the wonders that the Base allows you to build etc.

There were also concerns about the Mars Mine rolling you a new bonus resource that doesn't help, but yes, as admin mentioned in the final post of the thread, you will be given the option to dig for a new resource if you roll one useless to you (for a fee).

No-one as yet has talked about the hot-spot principal, so allow me to bring that up.

Admin always wanted the maps to be a 'bigger part' of the game, and in essence they will play a part here. The Lunar/Martian wonders run on solar power, so there is a certain spot on the map where the wonders run better than anywhere else.

The further from the hotspot, the less effective your wonders are. You can move your wonder once every 7 days for a fee to try and get closer to the hotspot.

Using teamwork and multiple wonders can help get a group to 'hunt down' a hotspot, essentially its a bit of a treasure hunt :)

Of course, every full moon (once a month) the hotspot shifts, and so onward goes the hunt.

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Why they are being scaled simply because they 'benefit' larger nations more, when all wonders benefit larger nations more but currently are not scaled?

Can we expect that all future wonders will scale in order to establish such a principle?

Also, are the facilities still planned to be temporary?

Edited by Kiss Goodbye
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Why they are being scaled simply because they 'benefit' larger nations more, when all wonders benefit larger nations more but currently are not scaled?

They are being scaled as bigger nations have more to gain, so we wanted to make them more expensive for them, but we did not want to make it so that smaller nations would not be able to take part in this part of the game.

Can we expect that all future wonders will scale in order to establish such a principle?

Not sure on that, everything will be taken on a case by case basis.

Also, are the facilities still planned to be temporary?

Yes, but again this may still be tweaked, or the timeframes may be.

The essence of the dynamic is this;

Moon = lower cost, better benefit, shorter term

Mars = higher cost, lesser benefit, longer term

The Mars Mine probably strays a little from that (depending on your resources and what Martian resource you get) as it could well be better than the Moon Mine, but, in the original suggestion thread a new 'bonus' resource was one idea the community seemed to really want, and thus, here it is.

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The expiry is a bit of a carry over from an earlier idea which turned out to be over complicated in conjuction with the hotspot principal, it's still being looked at, it's possible we might look at the Base having no expiry, but yeah, still being looked at.

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There will be a sliding scale yes, for Moon and Mars, the bigger you are the more they will cost for you, as the more they will benefit you.

The 'scale', is still being worked on, but they will be quite expensive.

Shouldn't it be scaled to infra instead of nation strength? The way it's set up it will be more beneficial for nations with high infra and low tech. Nations with low infra and high tech levels will end up paying more than nations with high infra and low tech even though it benefits the latter nations more.

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Shouldn't it be scaled to infra instead of nation strength? The way it's set up it will be more beneficial for nations with high infra and low tech. Nations with low infra and high tech levels will end up paying more than nations with high infra and low tech even though it benefits the latter nations more.

If it was like that then it would benefit the nations with a lot of tech, but not a lot of infra. I'm not saying that the nations with more infra are better or anything, but if it's one or the other, why should the nations with more tech be better off? Also NS includes things like land and military, as well as infra and tech.

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If it was like that then it would benefit the nations with a lot of tech, but not a lot of infra. I'm not saying that the nations with more infra are better or anything, but if it's one or the other, why should the nations with more tech be better off? Also NS includes things like land and military, as well as infra and tech.

Maybe it could be a formula including infra/NS or NS/infra? Ultimately infrastructure is what decides how effective any modifiers will be, not Nation Strength. What you are saying is that Vlad's idea would benefit the nations with lots of tech, but it's actually just not punishing the nations with a lot of tech.

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The upcoming wonders' costs being based on Nation Strength makes no sense. A nation with high infrastructure and technology would be in a far better position to mount an expedition to the Moon or Mars. The proposed system penalizes me for being more advanced.

Let's compare my nation with one around 20k NS. The 20Ker has 3K infrastructure and 1K technology. I have 108.6K NS, ~12.5K infrastructure, and 10.8K technology. I will use your placeholder values for calculating the costs for both. I realize that these are not the final values but if you continue to use NS in determining the costs the proportions will remain the same.

A Mars Base for the 20K nation costs $400 million.

A Mars Base for me costs $1.29 billion.

Why would it cost my nation three times as much as the small one? Frankly, that small nation should have an extremely low chance of making it to Mars and that endeavor should cost him far more than my program costs me. How can he re-supply the base or later on transport minerals back to Earth? Heck, I don't think any nation should have the capability for routine transportation between planets.

Edited by Lummerian Empire
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The upcoming wonders' costs being based on Nation Strength makes no sense. A nation with high infrastructure and technology would be in a far better position to mount an expedition to the Moon or Mars. The proposed system penalizes me for being more advanced.

Let's compare my nation with one around 20k NS. The 20Ker has 3K infrastructure and 1K technology. I have 108.6K NS, ~12.5K infrastructure, and 10.8K technology. I will use your placeholder values for calculating the costs for both. I realize that these are not the final values but if you continue to use NS in determining the costs the proportions will remain the same.

A Mars Base for the 20K nation costs $400 million.

A Mars Base for me costs $1.29 billion.

Why would it cost my nation three times as much as the small one? Frankly, that small nation should have an extremely low chance of making it to Mars and that endeavor should cost him far more than my program costs me. How can he re-supply the base or later on transport minerals back to Earth? Heck, I don't think any nation should have the capability for routine transportation between planets.

The Base your nation builds, will be 3+ times the size, and give you 3+ times the benefit, and thus cost 3+ times more money.

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Mars Mine - Coming Soon - Provides access to a randomly selected resource of Basalt, Sodium, Magnesium, or Potassium.

This is extremely bad really. I was actually thinking mars stuff would be worthwhile because of that thing but if i have the misfortune of getting any other resources than potassium which means this wonder will be worth jack !@#$.

Also i think the GLR bonsu from sodium should be moved to magnesium (which is pretty worthless as it is).

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This is extremely bad really. I was actually thinking mars stuff would be worthwhile because of that thing but if i have the misfortune of getting any other resources than potassium which means this wonder will be worth jack !@#$.

http://www.cybernations.net/about_topics.asp#Wonders

Relocating your Mars Mine gives you the option to randomly select a new Mars resource for a fee.
Also i think the GLR bonsu from sodium should be moved to magnesium (which is pretty worthless as it is).

We tried to stretch these bonus resources toward real world applications as close as possible.

Getting anything to 'enhance' radiation cleanup was a stretch, but Sodium came closest.

(It's possible to use the concentration of the stable isotope 23Na in blood plasma to compute the level of radiation poisoning.)

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Relocating your Mars Mine gives you the option to randomly select a new Mars resource for a fee.

How often can you relocate? And why not just make it a choice from the start (i.e. you explore first, find the resource you need, locate your mine there directly).

We tried to stretch these bonus resources toward real world applications as close as possible.

Well i never cared much for the realistic part of the game; magnesium needs to be buffed though, it's too worthless as it is right now compared to others, especially since it seems to complement a rather rarely used trade set (because of it's limited usefulness).

(It's possible to use the concentration of the stable isotope 23Na in blood plasma to compute the level of radiation poisoning.)

ha ha

D:

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Expires at 1,200 days. Expires at 600 days.

Did you have a straight face when you came up with this number? Seriously, 4 and 2 years? YEARS.

Drop time limit, its already so long as to be ludicrous. It'll make the code cleaner too.

I'm all for long term planning but... 4 years? O_o

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How often can you relocate? And why not just make it a choice from the start (i.e. you explore first, find the resource you need, locate your mine there directly).

You can relocate your base every 7 days if you choose.

We didn't allow users to just pick because we decided luck should play a part here, you have the option to pay for your own luck if you need to.

What we want is decision making, what we have here is a decision whether to stick with an 'ok' Martian resource, or to spend money to try and re-roll for a better one, while at the same time risking a step backwards.

If you could pick, theres only one decision, and then nothing afterward.

Well i never cared much for the realistic part of the game; magnesium needs to be buffed though, it's too worthless as it is right now compared to others, especially since it seems to complement a rather rarely used trade set (because of it's limited usefulness).

It has actually already been 'buffed'.

You may notice the other 3 Martian resources replicate exactly one part of the Bonus Resource they enhance, Basalt gives +3 happiness, just like Automobiles, –5% infra upkeep, just like Asphalt and –5% infra purchase cost, just like Construction.

Magnesium though, has been 'buffed' to give you double what Microchips and Steel give you.

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Expires at 1,200 days. Expires at 600 days.

Did you have a straight face when you came up with this number? Seriously, 4 and 2 years? YEARS.

Drop time limit, its already so long as to be ludicrous. It'll make the code cleaner too.

I'm all for long term planning but... 4 years? O_o

This game is becoming more and more of a long term venture, for all involved.

We are trying to plan ahead here, and offer long term game play options, rather than just have something where you just up and buy it and 3 months later sit around and ask 'ok, whats next'.

The ability to upgrade and move these wonders to increase their efficiency, should hopefully 'give people something to do' instead of just waiting around for their next wonder window.

Originally the wonders would just slowly become less and less useful over time and eventually you'd have to weigh up keeping an ineffective wonder, or destroying it and rebuilding a shiny new one, but it proved very complicated in tandem with the hotspot principal, and we are already deviating a bit from the KISS principal here as is, so, the expiry limits stay.

Basically, you can buy without conscience now, but down the track you will have to start to plan about what approach you will take when the time limits are running out.

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...Stores 6% of citizen count at time of purchase... Relocating your Mars Colony gives you the option to reset the stored citizen count based on your current citizen population for a fee.

What does that do to my citizens and taxes, why would I want to reset the number?

Will there be one or many hotspots?

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