Announcement From The Echelon

[LordAkanata]

Yea it kinda is, you can't remove somebody from a position they are not occupying.

No, it's not. Isn't it clear that Caffine was basically pushed out of Echelon? Isn't it clear that in the past, people subject to these terms tend to leave the alliance? Isn't it clear that forcing people to leave alliances breaks communities?

[ChairmanHal]

Last I spoke with them, Echelon was of the opinion that they'd pay it off in about a month.

I'll believe it when I see it.

In the meantime, did you read the rest of what I had to say? The reparations part is bad, but there's other pieces to that treaty that sound like they were proposed for lulz just to see if Echelon would actually agree to them or were slipped in at the last second and agreed to just to have the thing done. Poor show.

[Waterana]

Echelon did NOT start this war, and no amount of propaganda or dredging up past history will change that fundamental fact. All you've done is forced them to agree to a lie.

NPO made the first declaration and fired the first shot. Karma attacked us, Echelon then entered to defend us. There is no way in hell any amount of spin is going to turn that into Echelon starting the war.

[Amoshu]

So using that logic, all the alliances fighting us right now, except OV, are guilty of starting their wars? Interesting.

If it doesn't make sense to you, please, continue to use whichever method/train of thought you currently are. However, what you'd just said there, attempting a quip, made complete and total sense to me, and was exactly what I described.

Edited July 6, 2009 by Amoshi

[Schattenmann]

After reading those crappy disgusting 'terms', I am now fully convinced that our side can no longer be called the Hegemony, because another group has claimed the name. Though they'll have to be known as Hegemony 2 of course. That name rolls of the tongue a lot easier than Non-Karma Karmaites. Well done, you've kept the cart and just changed drivers.

"Blaw blaw blaw, I'm mad we're not still driving."

[Heft]

No you're doing it because it's morally convenient. You knew what you were doing. There wasn't some magical force telling you what to do. You did it because it was the cool thing to do. You are complaining, because you think it's good pr for your alliance. You are complaining, because you aren't in control anymore.

It is clear that you do not know me, though I am flattered by your attentions. I did what I did through a combination of callous strategy, neglect, and occasionally just laziness. I am stating that these terms are silly and agreeing with others who have said the same thing because they are. Also, I voluntarily left power for a new, unproven alliance months before this entire business started. I gave up control willingly.

[Deadshot]

The terms as they stand can, and likely will be, be paid in under two months. They are not easy, and they will drain many nations to virtually nothing. That is the point; to reduce and cripple the military capacity of your enemy while increasing your own and giving yourself room to surpass them even farther as they rebuild.

I do not expect the swagger and mentality Caffeine and Tela embodied so well to have left with them, and what's more, I don't care either way. Echelon represents one of the most consistent opponents of the Global Order of Darkness. It's my job to ensure they are as weak as I humanly can.

Which is exactly what the Hegemony did. I don't disagree with you Xiphosis, that is the point of war. I think the problem is when the majority of the world had an issue with others doing it.

[Heft]

I would consider a need to "cripple" an already defeated and much weaker opponent a sign of weakness.

[crazyisraelie]

It is clear that you do not know me, though I am flattered by your attentions. I did what I did through a combination of callous strategy, neglect, and occasionally just laziness. I am stating that these terms are silly and agreeing with others who have said the same thing because they are. Also, I voluntarily left power for a new, unproven alliance months before this entire business started. I gave up control willingly.

Just because you gave up your power willingly doesn't mean anything. Just because you left for a new power willingly doesn't mean anything.

You can make excuses all you want, but that doesn't disregard from the fact you gave terms more brutal than these.

You can dress like a chicken, but you are still a cow.

[Neo Anglia]

Too harsh. Only 26 nations allowed to pay 34k tech? These terms are some of the harshest I have ever seen..... Also banning Caffine from gov is stupid. I think I will send him a recruitment message right now.

Don't bother...

The restriction on those able to pay the terms should have been removed as they went through an additional month of war.

That one was actually non negotiable. Trust me it was tried.

I havent gotten through all 11 pages yet but I would like to say a couple of things...

Neo you are a class act I wish I had gotten the oppertunity to get to know you under different circumstances. I wish you well in leading Echelon through the period of rebuilding. I believe that your alliance is in exceptional hands.

I am pleased to see this war come to an end and the members of Echelon that fought with honor are to be commended. Good luck to all of you!

I do appreciate your sentiments, and I reciprocate in kind. You worked very hard with us under difficult circumstances being a voice of reason, it is a shame most of our work was cast aside like that. Perhaps when we meet again it will be under friendlier circumstances.

No, you're just forcing him to play it your way and in all likelihood the community will lose Caffine1 as a player. It's one thing to demand reparations of cash and tech for a long war and quite another to break down the door to someones home, grab them by the scuff of the neck and throw them out, threatening to kill their family if they return. This is a disgusting move and there's no way you can justify this, because the precedent alone sets the world up for an enormous amount of abuse, especially after the core alliances of KARMA railed against this so ardently.

edit: sliced out a clause after reading gofastleft's post

This is why I said don't bother. He did quit the game for all intents and purposes. We haven't heard a peep from him in months.

My peanut gallery posts aside, I would like to say a sincere thank you to all of those within our own alliance and circle of friends who have stuck by us in a very difficult time. You are true friends and allies, and our alliance and our community cannot state enough our appreciation for you.

We are battered and bruised, a little worse for wear. But as was the case when asked if we would honor our treaty at the outset of this war, the same holds true now and will continue to do so in the future...ECHELON WILL STAND.

[Waterana]

"Blaw blaw blaw, I'm mad we're not still driving."

I don't give a damm who's driving. Karma needs to give up any claims to being better, higher, or more moral than the Hegemony side of this war. These harsh unwarranted terms have just ground that pretense into dust.

I expected harsh terms for the NPO, and wasn't disappointed. Eternal war is harsh as you can get. However Echelon doesn't deserve this crap for nothing more than honouring a treaty and entering a war to defend an ally.

[youwish959]

Does the term apply to new characters?

[Keres]

yes white peace should have been given to all Hegemony alliances because making sure it doesn't happen again comes from, slapping them on the wrist!!

*here's to hoping for a whole MONTH without them*

/sarcasm

[Deadshot]

I would consider a need to "cripple" an already defeated and much weaker opponent a sign of weakness.

Well, yes especially after 2 months of war. Personally I would do a few rounds and give reps, but if I was in a war for months, I am sure reps would be light to non-existent. 2 months of $@! kicking is enough.

[youwish959]

yes white peace should have been given to all Hegemony alliances because making sure it doesn't happen again comes from, slapping them on the wrist!!

*here's to hoping for a whole MONTH without them*

/sarcasm

Alliances were slapped on the wrist for two weeks of war, so why not an alliance who has been at war for two months?

[crazyisraelie]

Well, yes especially after 2 months of war. Personally I would do a few rounds and give reps, but if I was in a war for months, I am sure reps would be light to non-existent. 2 months of $@! kicking is enough.

Unless they're hiding in peace mode like the NPO right?

[Xiphosis]

Which is exactly what the Hegemony did.

I didn't hit Echelon with 90 buddies, lol. I didn't even hit them. I hit NPO after they hit an MADP partner, how is that like what the Hegemony did? Just because they laid down effective terms doesn't mean you demonize the terms. The motive matters a hell of a lot more.

[Chaoshawk]

Good terms for R&R they deserved their one tech.

[Matthew Conrad]

I don't give a damm who's driving. Karma needs to give up any claims to being better, higher, or more moral than the Hegemony side of this war. These harsh unwarranted terms have just ground that pretense into dust.

I expected harsh terms for the NPO, and wasn't disappointed. Eternal war is harsh as you can get. However Echelon doesn't deserve this crap for nothing more than honouring a treaty and entering a war to defend an ally.

Hold on a sec, I'm rummaging through my bag for your surrender terms we drew up.

Ah, here they are:

The New Pacific Order Terms of Surrender and Peace

No.

Signed, Karma

Oh wow! You were right, we did sentence you to eternal war.

[Keres]

Alliances were slapped on the wrist for two weeks of war, so why not an alliance who has been at war for two months?

yeah and people were !@#$%*ing and moaning when THAT was going on... we're NOT the ones who dragged this on for 2 months you know...

[Farore]

O/Echelon

You guys got more then you deserved but I know you will come out stronger from this.

[Raiizn]

I don't give a damm who's driving. Karma needs to give up any claims to being better, higher, or more moral than the Hegemony side of this war. These harsh unwarranted terms have just ground that pretense into dust.

I expected harsh terms for the NPO, and wasn't disappointed. Eternal war is harsh as you can get. However Echelon doesn't deserve this crap for nothing more than honouring a treaty and entering a war to defend an ally.

You'll find the majority of people who support these terms never claimed the moral high ground. However, the outspoken alliances who did were enough for people to paint the entire coalition as so, which was misguided.

[Mixoux]

Paging Haflinger to troll us. Attention Haflinger, you're needed in thread #65254.

Good terms for R&R they deserved their one tech.

The 1 tech is a glorious spoil of war indeed.

[Hydro]

This is why I said don't bother. He did quit the game for all intents and purposes. We haven't heard a peep from him in months.

Maybe so but it sets a very troubling precedent, one that apparently was something of the past, or so KARMA's core member alliances would altruistically proclaim from the top of every building.

[Waterana]

Hold on a sec, I'm rummaging through my bag for your surrender terms we drew up.

Ah, here they are:

The New Pacific Order Terms of Surrender and Peace

No.

Signed, Karma

Oh wow! You were right, we did sentence you to eternal war.

I'm not going into our terms here, this is Echelon's thread. Have explained my reasoning behind that statement in another thread. If you care enough to want to know which one, PM me and I'll link you to it.