Poll: Recruiting from other alliances

[Heft]

Lol, how ironic. Explain why in the CN Wiki your alliance was in the Karma's side list. Did you not realize that you were in a war against DOOM before?

That's not ironic, and even if you were correct it wouldn't be ironic. Stop listening to Alanis Morissette.

We were peripherally involved in the Karma War in assistance of STA and MK, but we made a point of not being a member of the Karma coalition.

[Starcraftmazter]

Of course not...what kind of a redundant question is that.

[Lennox]

Yes, and voted all venues because I could.

[Griff]

LOL, totally called someone would make a thread. I believe recruiting this way is fine, as long as you expect it in return.

[Gondor]

I think mass recruiting from other alliances isn't cool. But I see no problem with trying to get a particular nation on your side unless that alliance or nation has made it clear they don't want other offers.

But if you think you can get other single nations over to your side, than do so.

If the nation or alliance has made clear that they don't want any offers from other alliances, than a violation of could be enough reason to put some on the war path.

[Newhotness]

Id say it depends on the situation. For example, TDO sees poaching as a bad thing and do not want members in their alliance contacted about joining another. So in that situation it is bad to try to steal members. In NSOs case, Ivan doesnt give a damn, so why should anyone else since its his alliance. In that case, its not a bad thing because he doesnt care if his members or taken or not

[iamthey]

People can think what they want about un-solicited non-specific letters spammed across an entire alliance, but I don't really see any issue with friends recruiting friends via irc skype (assuming the topic of disatisfaction with the present alliance comes up, or what not). I think most people have either engaged in this form of "poaching", know someone who has, or find it acceptable.

As for what is traditionally thought of as poaching, I don't really care. I trust all my alliance mates enough that I know they will not be swayed by a spam message alone. If they do leave it would be because of prior planning, or an already existing intent to leave. So if someone wants to try they would be wasting their time.

As for the theoretical front; in reality spam messages are just one of many existing venues through which people are exposed to other alliances. Most of us have been on [ooc]wiki[/ooc], most have been on this [ooc]forum[/ooc], and those who do have access to[ooc] IRC[/ooc] have been in other alliance's [ooc]channels[/ooc]; its not like a spam message is exposing them to something they haven't already seen. In reality the only people who would be effected are those who don't participate in their alliance and serve as a burden to that alliance as they are always the last ones to comply with military orders, such as moving to and from peace mode, they screw up target listing as they have to be manually removed from large spread sheets, and they serve as a security risk considering they have no attachment to the community but have an eye on that community in more transparent alliances such as the neutrals who were poached from this is a major problem; so removing these more or less useless people could only have a positive effect on the community. Its sort of a natural way of purging the alliance of those who shouldn't be members. Im not going to say I approve of poaching but, one shouldn't simply look at it for its negative factors. I suppose my perspective is, if your community sheds members as a result of poaching then your community either crummy, or the individual who was poached doesn't deserve to be a part of it. *shrugs*

Perhaps a general rule of if you poach you may be poached from should exist. I mean the existing community norm only exists as sort of a mutual standing standard that was set in place to protect the recruiting work of each alliance. So if you choose to violate it then you may be recruited from in kind. Other than that treaties could be made with poachers that include simple sovereignty clauses which would prohibit violations of sovereignty committed on that alliance or its allies. That would protect the web from poaching alliances.

I'm utterly against it, there's no action or reason which could justify someone drag a member of one alliance into their own via mass recruitment.

It's nothing short of insulting to even suggest such a thing to an opponent in a time of war.

Well of course that would be horrible; i'd agree with you. However they are not being dragged in this case, its a simple spam message that can be accepted or denied at that individuals own free will is it not? Then the before mentioned argument applies inregards to who such activity would effect.

Lol... you all get so worked up over this stuff. [ooc]Its a game, pixels on a screen; focus on whats important, community.[/ooc] Everyone needs to calm down. Besides, alliances don't own their members. >_>

Edited July 7, 2009 by iamthey

[Sigrun Vapneir]

Many nations join alliances specifically to stop the recruitment spam. It's more annoying than the tech raiders.

Recruiting alliance members has always been considered at the very least like a slap in the face.

Is that an act of war? Well sort of, if it is deliberate, if they keep doing it, refuse to apologise, eventually it would reach that point.

It's sort of like if you start dropping leaflets on a neighboring country telling them their government sucks. How do you really expect that to be received?

[ShinRa]

Well of course that would be horrible; i'd agree with you. However they are not being dragged in this case, its a simple spam message that can be accepted or denied at that individuals own free will is it not? Then the before mentioned argument applies inregards to who such activity would effect.

Free will tends to be overrated when it comes to Bob, and the thing is about spam is that there tends to be a lot of it. Sometimes people will simply join an alliance to stop them filling up your mail box and to make life simpler as well as quieter.

It really depends upon how determined the recruiters are to pull the 'more casual' and less experienced people out of alliances and into their own.

[iamthey]

Free will tends to be overrated when it comes to Bob, and the thing is about spam is that there tends to be a lot of it. Sometimes people will simply join an alliance to stop them filling up your mail box and to make life simpler as well as quieter.

It really depends upon how determined the recruiters are to pull the 'more casual' and less experienced people out of alliances and into their own.

Fair enough, i'll agree there are some real tools (no pun or reference to tool intended) out there. While poaching would be little more than a nuisance to alliances like argent, gre, TOP ect; alliances like NPO, IRON, and MCXA with a broad base of new members might have problems. As I have said my interest in the matter is purely academic; I don't really care one way or the other. If in power I probably wouldn't ever utilize poaching, but if someone else wants to run around and use it at their own peril it doesn't really bother me.

[Deuterium Dawn]

Meh. It doesn't really matter. No one's "sovereignty" is "violated" by people sending messages to their members, and recruitment spam is no more annoying than any other kind of spam.

[Drai]

Somtimes and other.

Other being as a joke or if that person you are recruiting has expressed interest in being bored with their alliance.

Edited July 8, 2009 by Drai

[The King with No Name]

It is our duty as a community to recruit from Neutrals until they no longer exist! NSO should be given a medal for their deeds! Instead the world has forced these once mighty and noble sith onto their knees pleading for mercy, claiming "it was all a bad joke" like a group of pathetic and cowardly incompetents. Purge the Neutrals from their spider holes before the Neutral Menace takes over each nation one by one like a more boring versian of the domino effect! If they are not stopped in their tracks and Neutrality reigns supreme then eventually every denizen of Bob will be "recruited" by the idea to go inactive due to their inability to endure the horrors of boredom that inevetably follow the Neutral World Order.

[gateborg]

I like to recieve recruiting messages, I read and delete them. They can't give me better offer than NPO are given me. NPO have nice forum with many friends who have a lively debate together, I like it!

[AsianLeader]

Recruiting members of another alliances is just plain out wrong. They have already chosen an alliance to be in, and it is not up to any other alliance to tell them that they made the wrong choice, if the choice was wrong to begin with. If they feel like they made a wrong choice, then they, the member, shall look for other alliances to join, not the other way around if they are in an Alliance AA.

[ShinRa]

They can't give me better offer than NPO are given me.

How about not being used as cannon fodder in a war the NPO has ultimately brought upon itself had has lost, and being part of an alliance willing to enjoy events on Bob than 'win' every war/contest/power struggle/debate they stumble across. Or being part of an alliance not run by backstabbers.

Do those sound like good reasons to join a non cow hailing alliance?

Sorry, but the guy's just come in here and posted something utterly irrelevant in an attempt to promote a failing power, can you blame me for being blunt and honest here.

[Waterana]

How about not being used as cannon fodder in a war the NPO has ultimately brought upon itself had has lost, and being part of an alliance willing to enjoy events on Bob than 'win' every war/contest/power struggle/debate they stumble across. Or being part of an alliance not run by backstabbers.

Do those sound like good reasons to join a non cow hailing alliance?

Sorry, but the guy's just come in here and posted something utterly irrelevant in an attempt to promote a failing power, can you blame me for being blunt and honest here.

Actually, yes, we can blame you. gateborg's post was totally relevent, on topic and related to this thread. Your post was a cheap opportunity to push a political agenda not related to this thread or it's topic. Do you really need to bash the NPO in every thread on this forum. Aren't there already enough devoted to that purpose you can use?

Anyway, I don't believe trying to recruit people who have already chosen an alliance is right. Even those in neutral alliances have made their choice. However, in these days of change who knows if that old 'rule' is set for chop as well if enough alliances start doing it.

[gateborg]

How about not being used as cannon fodder in a war the NPO has ultimately brought upon itself had has lost, and being part of an alliance willing to enjoy events on Bob than 'win' every war/contest/power struggle/debate they stumble across. Or being part of an alliance not run by backstabbers.

Do those sound like good reasons to join a non cow hailing alliance?

Sorry, but the guy's just come in here and posted something utterly irrelevant in an attempt to promote a failing power, can you blame me for being blunt and honest here.

Excuse me ShinRA, I was vague in my first post. I shall clarify my first post.

There is no reason to be afraid of recruiters if an alliance has an active forum with contents who the members likes.

[Fort Pitt]

I said sometimes, because I believe recruiting a RL friend from an alliance is acceptable.

[Gn0xious Jr]

I voted "NO" assuming it was mass-messaging random people in another alliance.

I would also say "NO" to recruiting in peace offerings in a time of war, and is something I've never done.

I feel that it is cowardly and disrespectful

The only situation where I feel "recruiting from another alliance" is less cowardly/disrespectful are as follows:

RL Friends wanting to be in the same alliance, or start their own, so one "recruits" the other

A Trade Circle is formed, and members from one alliance move to the other

A member expresses frustration/boredom with their current alliance and you give them information about your own

*the above I consider the one-offs and conversations would likely take place in RL, PM in-game, or on IRC

[HeinousOne]

I actually voted yes. If it is done "on this venue" it is basically by putting your message out there for anyone to see or you are doing it directly to someone and everyone can see that action.

If you are having a conversation with someone and it turns to why you think your alliance would be a good fit for them then I see no wrong in that. I just dont like all the canned mass messaging. I am in an alliance, I dont want to have to delete a ton of mail as no other action in the game will make me want to drop bombs on someone more then that.

Edited July 13, 2009 by HeinousOne

[Gn0xious Jr]

I actually voted yes. If it is done "on this venue" it is basically by putting your message out there for anyone to see or you are doing it directly to someone and everyone can see that action.

If you are having a conversation with someone and it turns to why you think your alliance would be a good fit for them then I see no wrong in that. I just dont like all the canned mass messaging. I am in an alliance, I dont want to have to delete a ton of mail as no other action in the game will make me want to drop bombs on someone.

good points

maybe i should have voted Sometimes/Other

[HeinousOne]

good points

maybe i should have voted Sometimes/Other

Yeah, I suppose I should have said sometimes too. Oh well.

[Corinan]

NSO should be given a medal for their deeds! Instead the world has forced these once mighty and noble sith onto their knees pleading for mercy, claiming "it was all a bad joke" like a group of pathetic and cowardly incompetents.

Yeah that never actually happened. I wouldn't mind being given a medal, though.

[ShinRa]

Actually, yes, we can blame you.

How.

gateborg's post was totally relevent, on topic and related to this thread.

Partially, I overreacted before but please read and actually understand this before you make your next post. Gateborg stated the following:

"I like to recieve recruiting messages, I read and delete them."

Fine he's allegedly against recruiters, he's stated that he deletes messages from other alliances but that's it, he's given no real position upon recruiting people from other alliances so while this goes some way to showing his viewpoint it gives very little actual information

“They can't give me better offer than NPO are given me.”

This is where the post begins to dive into propaganda/advertisement. He’s stated that no alliance can give him a better offer than that given to him by the NPO, this in essence states that the NPO gives the best possible offers and advantages in choosing alliances to join.

“NPO have nice forum with many friends who have a lively debate together, I like it!"

Again this suggests that the NPO is a very friendly, active place with good quality threads (your mileage may vary) which he enjoys thus giving more of an incentive for other people reading to join the NPO and help them bolster the alliance’s failing strength and numbers.

Your post was a cheap opportunity to push a political agenda not related to this thread or it's topic. Do you really need to bash the NPO in every thread on this forum. Aren't there already enough devoted to that purpose you can use?

None which older members of your alliance don’t invade and try and shift the attention to themselves or verbally beaten to death until the admin have to close them. As for ‘cheap opportunity’, I saw an opportunity to point out the truth about the alliance’s current state and counter what is little more than largely irrelevant propaganda for the most part.

Anyway, I don't believe trying to recruit people who have already chosen an alliance is right. Even those in neutral alliances have made their choice. However, in these days of change who knows if that old 'rule' is set for chop as well if enough alliances start doing it.

Fine, that’s your point of view, but I do think that your apparent disregard for other peoples choices to join alliances and hinting that it may be ‘for the chop’ in the future is both wrong and dishonourable. Others may think otherwise but it should be an uninfluenced and willing choice made by a player (who is fully aware of his alliance’s actions, relations and history) to leave an alliance and/or join a new one.

Excuse me ShinRA, I was vague in my first post. I shall clarify my first post.

There is no reason to be afraid of recruiters if an alliance has an active forum with contents who the members likes.

My apologies. But state that next time instead of going off on a tangent stating how great the NPO is and how you do not wish to leave it.

Edited July 13, 2009 by ShinRa