Imperial Decree from the New Pacific Order

[ShinRa]

I have talked to the people fighting me. There's not a one of them that wouldn't tell you that I fight without honor.

It is not your honour being tested or questioned here. And if anyone's honour is to be questioned then it is that of your alliance itself, not that of a few exeptions within the NPO's ranks.

I would rather have someone in that position, because I can tell you right now the net gains made to Bob have almost certainly outweighed the mistakes of the NPO in its history.

The words 'midnight' followed by 'blitz' come to mind here. Care to name what can make up for something like that?

People have learned from their interactions with us. Alliances have improved. Some fell by the wayside.. and we made things interesting.

No, you made things interesting for you.

And made things very difficult for everyone who wished to remain outside your dominion. Others will be able to word this better than I, but I find that interesting does not involve having alliance fanatics frothing at the mouth demanding that you die or worse surrender to them, that your alliance is pathetic and that 'resistance is futile.'

-----

Offer peace at what cost? Debilitating everyone in our alliance for years? Making folks angry at you who you may not necessarily need to have angry at you.

I have no pride. I am just a soldier, I serve and put in my time daily fighting for my people and my friends and allies. If you looked at my burnt cinder of a state, the only thing I have left is my integrity for what that's worth.

Then perhaps now you have some idea for what it has been like for others the NPO have attacked and curb stomped into the dirt.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

10% of it were monsters, 5% of that ten percent are located elsewhere on Bob now, the remaining 5% perpetuate those mistakes. Some of us haven't been here long enough to even qualify as monsters or participate in the "great atrocities". We only know the benevolence the NPO has shown us in our time here since. The policies were not implemented in an ideal fashion which could make us monsters to those who opposed us yes, but what worth is an alliance that isn't able to defend its own interest? Our system lacked grace. Will Karma's?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Teriethien]

Anyone who is saying we have not this war, is an outright liar because I'm sure that NS just magically vanished because admin came in and took it away. Saying we haven't fought or tried is pure propaganda and false.

Indeed, and I would be as outraged as you were if the NPO hadn't hold being in peace mode against those nations in it in its previous wars. No, I didn't miss the entirely insincere apology. Honestly, trying to tout the pity line isn't going to get you very far at this point. The NPO would gain more respect had it just accepted the terms and start working towards rebuilding.

[NEWBert]

I don't deny that the bottom three quarters have lost some infrastructure. But with the top nations acting as peace mode warriors, I have no doubt that the best CN banking system will rebuild the bottom half pretty quickly. They did it once before if you'll remember.

Hasn't it already been covered that NS is fairly irrelevant when it comes to bank nations? It makes little difference if they are 70k NS, their max potential aid is still capped by amount and slots. It shouldn't and doesn't matter that our bank nations didn't fight.

And of course it's going to be skewed when the original top nations that fought (the non-bank nations) have been brought down to low NS levels. No one in the NPO was permitted to sit in peace mode beyond our bank nations/senators. Nations dipping into peace mode were by instruction not there for more than 2 rounds of war before coming out again.

Edited June 13, 2009 by NEWBert

[Maelstrom Vortex]

I don't deny that the bottom three quarters have lost some infrastructure. But with the top nations acting as peace mode warriors, I have no doubt that the best CN banking system will rebuild the bottom half pretty quickly. They did it once before if you'll remember.

They did it once before by having banks left to rebuild them with.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Indeed, and I would be as outraged as you were if the NPO hadn't hold being in peace mode against those nations in it in its previous wars. No, I didn't miss the entirely insincere apology. Honestly, trying to tout the pity line isn't going to get you very far at this point. The NPO would gain more respect had it just accepted the terms and start working towards rebuilding.

If you know anything about leading an alliance then you know that if you destroy the banks, there's nothing to put humpty dumpty back together again once it's taken its great fall.. that means reparations would be outright oppressive atop that. The terms have called for the banks to have 2 weeks of highly destructive war.. almost certain nuclear, that will render them to close to zi most likely.. meaning.. there won't be anyone left able to rebuild and with the reps.. rebuilding would be nigh eternal in coming. Which is both bad for recipient and terms bondsman.

The mandatory nuclear medicine clause needs to go.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Angrator]

10% of it were monsters, 5% of that ten percent are located elsewhere on Bob now, the remaining 5% perpetuate those mistakes. Some of us haven't been here long enough to even qualify as monsters or participate in the "great atrocities". We only know the benevolence the NPO has shown us in our time here since. The policies were not implemented in an ideal fashion which could make us monsters to those who opposed us yes, but what worth is an alliance that isn't able to defend its own interest? Our system lacked grace. Will Karma's?

You know what they call benevolence without love? Tyranny. And that's exactly what the NPO has acted like over the past 3 years. They have crushed, beaten, and humiliated their enemies in a mad bid to stay at top. They don't care for truth, honour, or anything other than mad and pure unadulterated power. I would argue that almost every single person outside of the NPO and their immediate sphere realizes how morally bankrupt the NPO have become. I don't trust a single word that comes out of their mouths. Don't tell me that you don't have just the tiniest bit of doubt at the stuff that they tell you? I would tell you to make a thread in the forum asking other NPOers what they think, but we all know how quickly that would be censored.

[ShinRa]

10% of it were monsters, 5% of that ten percent are located elsewhere on Bob now, the remaining 5% perpetuate those mistakes. Some of us haven't been here long enough to even qualify as monsters or participate in the "great atrocities". We only know the benevolence the NPO has shown us in our time here since. The policies were not implemented in an ideal fashion which could make us monsters to those who opposed us yes, but what worth is an alliance that isn't able to defend its own interest? Our system lacked grace. Will Karma's?

What worth is an alliance which is willing to use the excuse of 'defending it's own interests' to enact events such as the inFANtile war? or the GATO-1V war? or perhaps the NPO's willingness to unleash over four thousand nations upon a fifty nation alliance which could not have been a threat to them?

Yes, things were made easy for those within the NPO's ranks, but some people do not wish to so simply conform with a conquesting dictatorship. If you do not wish to bear those sins brought about by your predicessors then you can surrender or leave the NPO whenever you wish, or you can work to change it and try and make up for everything it has done since it arrived on Bob. But do not try and defend or uphold a corrupt government which has only ever brought ill luck to both allies and enemies which it meets.

If you know only the 'Good' which the NPO has done, then remain open minded about the bad and do not simply accept them as being lies as soon as your leaders state that they are.

Edited June 13, 2009 by ShinRa

[Geopet]

10% of it were monsters, 5% of that ten percent are located elsewhere on Bob now, the remaining 5% perpetuate those mistakes. Some of us haven't been here long enough to even qualify as monsters or participate in the "great atrocities". We only know the benevolence the NPO has shown us in our time here since. The policies were not implemented in an ideal fashion which could make us monsters to those who opposed us yes, but what worth is an alliance that isn't able to defend its own interest? Our system lacked grace. Will Karma's?

So wait, you had 92 monsters and around 87 of them are still there? That sucks.

[Teriethien]

We only know the benevolence the NPO has shown us in our time here since.

The policies were not implemented in an ideal fashion which could make us monsters to those who opposed us yes, but what worth is an alliance that isn't able to defend its own interest? Our system lacked grace. Will Karma's?

It's amusing to see you continually call yourself a monster. Being a benefector of a monstrous act makes you just as bad as the ones perpetuating the action.

[Venizelos]

The only thing I'm guilty of is following orders and standing by my allies. Something I'd much rather be guilty of than of being a coward.

i remember some trial that took place after WW2 were the criminals were not allowed to claim, "i was just following orders". following orders or doing whatever everyone else was doing is not a valid excuse for anything.

It's not the responsibility of those fighting NPO to account for their shortcomings.

i must admit that i lol'd from the irony here

I don't smell justice. I just smell greed. Lack of consideration for the individuals which have come and gone in the NPO. I see a push to blame anyone for personal suffering. Seriously, if you want us to pay reps.. leave us with the ability to pay them otherwise you don't get much of anything. It's like asking for the tech and then bombing the laboratories the tech comes from in the same discussion before that technology can even be fabricated.

NPOers talking about greed? you joined every war you ever took part in for the sole purpose of growing off of others' reps.

NPO had years to build up, more than IRON did. its nations got more reps and had more time to hoard warchests. and you're trying to tell us that the pre-war top NPO nations- that may have just a couple hundred infra now- don't have billions saved? the reps asked can be paid by NPO, and saying otherwise is just insulting your opponents' intelligence.

Sparta, I think you'll have fun at the top. #1 is always the most prized spot so you'll be on the defense a lot. Hope you have a lot of phalanxs trained up. Geopolitics almost always ends up balancing against #1 regardless of morality issues in the long term.

correction- it balances against #1 if you got to #1 the way NPO did.

The above is the real kicker to the terms.

This is course would mean much longer than 14 days or 2 rounds of war, 90% is steep for any alliance. And of course realize that a significant portion of our banks were built as such, it's not like they all have SDIs or other war related wonders. Oh and those that chose to be banks because they can't meet war needs to be on CN daily?

They'd be chop meat, you'd have nations not built for war and not really capable for war being attacked for prolonged rounds. Suiciding those actually capable of handling reparations sounds like a great idea.

how is 90% steep for any alliance? the vast majority of alliances have one or two nations in peace mode.

the banks had two years to build, its not like they didn't have time to get war wonders.

thousands of nations "not built for war" without daily access to computers have been attacked in wars, that's what war in CN is all about. a particular brown alliance comes to mind that was forced to get all its nations out of peace mode. i think its pretty doable.

That's more like it! That's the Pacifica spirit I'm used to! See folks, THIS Pacifican knows these terms aren't impossible! NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THE NPO!

hehe, i lol'd here as well. i remember reading wiki entries where NPO prided itself in moving billions two years ago.

At least this topic makes clear the motivation behind many in Karma; hate fuelled revenge.

heh, showing it like this reminds of GATO-1V, only without the revenge part, just hate-fuelled.

Offer peace at what cost? Debilitating everyone in our alliance for years?

I have talked to the people fighting me. There's not a one of them that wouldn't tell you that I fight without honor.

I would rather have someone in that position, because I can tell you right now the net gains made to Bob have almost certainly outweighed the mistakes of the NPO in its history. People have learned from their interactions with us. Alliances have improved. Some fell by the wayside.. and we made things interesting.

I have no pride. I am just a soldier, I serve and put in my time daily fighting for my people and my friends and allies. If you looked at my burnt cinder of a state, the only thing I have left is my integrity for what that's worth.

yeah, WW2 was really benefitial as well, if you exclude the dozens of millions who died in it.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Venizelos

[Francesca]

I am appalled. This is not the world I sacrificed everything, down to my pixels, to create.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

You know what they call benevolence without love? Tyranny. And that's exactly what the NPO has acted like over the past 3 years. They have crushed, beaten, and humiliated their enemies in a mad bid to stay at top. They don't care for truth, honour, or anything other than mad and pure unadulterated power. I would argue that almost every single person outside of the NPO and their immediate sphere realizes how morally bankrupt the NPO have become. I don't trust a single word that comes out of their mouths. Don't tell me that you don't have just the tiniest bit of doubt at the stuff that they tell you? I would tell you to make a thread in the forum asking other NPOers what they think, but we all know how quickly that would be censored.

If it's love you're out to win you'll never get it without showing it first. I have my own mind, I am subject to no one's indoctrination. And again, under what leadership? The same leaders that left this alliance and went elsewhere?

I have not left the NPO because there are people there who are in fact good at heart and fun to play with. Comparing us to the events of ww2 as some have.. that's way overboard.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Maelstrom Vortex

[Tojamn]

You know what they call benevolence without love? Tyranny. And that's exactly what the NPO has acted like over the past 3 years. They have crushed, beaten, and humiliated their enemies in a mad bid to stay at top. They don't care for truth, honour, or anything other than mad and pure unadulterated power. I would argue that almost every single person outside of the NPO and their immediate sphere realizes how morally bankrupt the NPO have become. I don't trust a single word that comes out of their mouths. Don't tell me that you don't have just the tiniest bit of doubt at the stuff that they tell you? I would tell you to make a thread in the forum asking other NPOers what they think, but we all know how quickly that would be censored.

here let me hold a mirror up for you and everyone else the seems too think their all high and mighty innocent. im sorry but there's allot of you karma folks that have no Halo's either. so get off it already. sheesh.

[Angrator]

They did it once before by having banks left to rebuild them with.

Okay. I think I know what you're trying to argue for. Please correct any mistakes if you find them.

Basically, you have smashed and crushed everyone in your way for power. Then you lost a war, talked about how sorry you were, and were let off easily. Then you rebuild and go back to crushing everyone in your path. Now, you are losing a war talking about how sorry you are and you want to be let off easy again.

Sorry, nice try but I don't miss the feel of the hard leather NPO boot on my neck. Actually, come to think of it, I almost prefer anything else to it.

[Teriethien]

If you know anything about leading an alliance then you know that if you destroy the banks, there's nothing to put humpty dumpty back together again once it's taken its great fall.. that means reparations would be outright oppressive atop that. The terms have called for the banks to have 2 weeks of highly destructive war.. almost certain nuclear, that will render them to close to zi most likely.. meaning.. there won't be anyone left able to rebuild and with the reps.. rebuilding would be nigh eternal in coming. Which is both bad for recipient and terms bondsman.

The mandatory nuclear medicine clause needs to go.

Has the feared Pacifican war machine declined to the point where 2 weeks of war is enough to completely destroy a nation (in the sense that you'll be out of cash for a reasonable reconstruction)? This has been gone through already, you can easily rebuild banks with leftover warchests. I suppose the longer the NPO puts off accepting peace the harder it gets though, but then that's Pacifica's call.

EDIT: clarification

Edited June 13, 2009 by Teriethien

[NEWBert]

how is 90% steep for any alliance? the vast majority of alliances have one or two nations in peace mode.

Comparing alliances in peace to alliances in war is comparing apples and oranges.

[Augustus Autumn]

I am appalled. This is not the world I sacrificed everything, down to my pixels, to create.

In a sea of yelling this rang a bit sharply.

[Venizelos]

If you know anything about leading an alliance then you know that if you destroy the banks, there's nothing to put humpty dumpty back together again once it's taken its great fall.. that means reparations would be outright oppressive atop that. The terms have called for the banks to have 2 weeks of highly destructive war.. almost certain nuclear, that will render them to close to zi most likely.. meaning.. there won't be anyone left able to rebuild and with the reps.. rebuilding would be nigh eternal in coming. Which is both bad for recipient and terms bondsman

nations that have all their improvements, 15 or 16 wonders, and two billions saved, can get ZId and then rebuy 10k infra after the two weeks are over. that's what about half of gremlins did when they lost thousands of infra in their war against IRON.

[Teriethien]

If it's love you're out to win you'll never get it without showing it first.

Now you know why Karma can be so pitiless as to present terms like this.

[Angrator]

here let me hold a mirror up for you and everyone else the seems too think their all high and mighty innocent. im sorry but there's allot of you karma folks that have no Halo's either. so get off it already. sheesh.

Okay first of all, I wasn't part of the NPO sphere at any time. Secondly, I was destroyed for speaking out against you guys. I only came out of retirement to fight you guys. Thirdly, I don't care about your former allies. This war isn't about them attacking a small alliance and trying to crush them. Nope sorry, you were the ones who did it.

[Maelstrom Vortex]

Okay. I think I know what you're trying to argue for. Please correct any mistakes if you find them.

Basically, you have smashed and crushed everyone in your way for power. Then you lost a war, talked about how sorry you were, and were let off easily. Then you rebuild and go back to crushing everyone in your path. Now, you are losing a war talking about how sorry you are and you want to be let off easy again.

Sorry, nice try but I don't miss the feel of the hard leather NPO boot on my neck. Actually, come to think of it, I almost prefer anything else to it.

I have not done these things. I've been around since June, and most of the wars since June 08 have been justifiable. I mean, you got the jackboot off your neck, now you want your jackboot on mine and I've done nothing to you.. ever. There are individuals, probably the vast majority in the alliance, that have also done nothing to you. You're assuming we're not learning from this war. And the people who had put their boots on your neck.. again.. what about the half that have gone elsewhere? They get the free meal ticket?

[Corinan]

here let me hold a mirror up for you and everyone else the seems too think their all high and mighty innocent. im sorry but there's allot of you karma folks that have no Halo's either. so get off it already. sheesh.

He's in the New Sith Order, not Karma.

[NEWBert]

This war isn't about them attacking a small alliance and trying to crush them.

If this is referencing the NPO/OV situation, we had no intentions of crushing the alliance. That's just ignorant. I suggest you review the peace term(s) that was offered, revolving around sethb.

[Petrovich4]

Oh this is funny. Good coordination mhawk and Moo-Tang.

OP: Good PR, particularly the way you worded your 'open embrace' of red alliances; this should prove interesting in the far future.

Reps:

1. Accept them or do not.

2. You have not.

3. Continue the war.

Everything else is fluff since the competent people will not buy NPO's crying and whining. First, NPO tells us that Karma is a sham and does not exist in our hearts. Then in this thread they tell us to play nice for their current, malicious mistake (attacking OV) and live up to our 'Karma' ideals which apparently we should just instill in our angelic hearts.

I read the first 11 pages. Thank you for the mixed emotions from certain people