IRON Surrenders

[HellAngel]

I never said that we needed reps to help rebuild. In case you forgot I've included what I said below.

Reps do help the victor to rebuild there is no doubt about that. They also help an alliance rebuild faster than they would if the rebuilding was all internal (obviously there are exceptions to this. An economic powerhouse such as the Gremlins can probably rebuild much faster on their own).

With all due respect, i beg to differ. Because of our higher average infra levels, the infra that was destroyed was way more expensive. A 3m aid pack does not do much at that range, whereas it can rebuild a 3-5k nation completely. Also, we need to organize our techdeals outside of our alliance, we dont have a lot of small nations we can use. The only thing that is left for us is to blow our warchests, which helps of course, but will result in stagnating growth eventually since we will need to stock them up again.

Theres not really a chance for a top-tier alliance to use monetary aid to rebuild.

[Xantenia]

Well done to all alliances involved, glad to see this conflict solved.

[shahenshah]

I'll be dissapointed in you guys if it takes any longer than two cycles.

Well then I guess we should ensure its longer than two cycles ;p

j/k. You will get what you wanted signed on and we can all move and get done with.

Edited May 28, 2009 by shahenshah

[Drool]

Theres not really a chance for a top-tier alliance to use monetary aid to rebuild.

Maybe you should buy FACs

[OverCaffeinated]

Uhm, yeah... about that....

We're working as fast as we can on getting full compliance with the terms. We have complete faith in Gramlin's and MHA pledge to defend us and there is absolutely no reason for us to keep any military.

[adhambek]

Glad this is all over, hope to see everyone rebuild and live in peace and friendship in the future. The people in IRON who fought till the very end down to zi have my respect.

Edited May 28, 2009 by adhambek

[HellAngel]

We're working as fast as we can on getting full compliance with the terms. We have complete faith in Gramlin's and MHA pledge to defend us and there is absolutely no reason for us to keep any military.

Heh, just a joke man. Of course we will be there if you get hit by rogues. I was talking long-term when i was elaborating IRONs political position.

[JBone]

After reading all of this thread one thing stands out to me more than any other.

The majority of the sentiment from the alliance forced to pay reparations is much much less favorable to those receiving said reparations.

While genuine friendship seems to be growing between IRON and the non rep opponents, RoK and co. seem to have made an enemy.

This does not seem to be a result of harshness of terms but more so a reaction as to how the peace talks were handled......outrageous initial terms, stalling negotiations, etc..

Perhaps there is something to this Karmic notion.

Reaping what you sow indeed.

AvT.....how does this sit with you, honestly?

Best of luck IRON, grow strong swiftly.

[Desius]

Good luck IRON.

I hope rebuilding goes well and the reps prove to be manageble.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

After reading all of this thread one thing stands out to me more than any other.

The majority of the sentiment from the alliance forced to pay reparations is much much less favorable to those receiving said reparations.

While genuine friendship seems to be growing between IRON and the non rep opponents, RoK and co. seem to have made an enemy.

This does not seem to be a result of harshness of terms but more so a reaction as to how the peace talks were handled......outrageous initial terms, stalling negotiations, etc..

Perhaps there is something to this Karmic notion.

Reaping what you sow indeed.

AvT.....how does this sit with you, honestly?

Best of luck IRON, grow strong swiftly.

IRON to me is someone who did what they needed to do. I have stated that earlier both in this thread and elsewhere. It was a war, they did their bit.

It is natural for IRON to be better disposed towards someone that gave them white peace as compared to someone that did not. Does not take a great intellect to grasp that. All I can say today, is that Ragnarok does not bear any ill will to IRON at this time. We have had our war.

The contention that the initial figures quoted for reparations were intended to delay the peace process is not correct. If it had not been for people we trust and fought alongside with persuading us, and us being persuaded, the initial figure would have stood. We know it, those that persuaded us know it, IRON knows it. Of course the full of the discussions that took place would most likely never be known to those that were not a part of it; however nowhere in the discussions, discussions that IRON was not a part of, was a desire to cripple IRON ever expressed by any alliance.

If the intention had been to punish them, as so many seem to think, there would need to have been a reason to punish them. There was no such reason. They simply defended their allies. Would do much the same if I were in their shoes. mhawk did that did he not, when the stupid mass cancellation on NPO came up.

IRON has the unique distinction of having fought with alliances that bore them little to none in form of ill will. Before, During and post conflict.

Yes, Ragnarok has asked for and taken reparations from IRON. That is a fact. It is also a fact that it is understood that IRON does not like Ragnarok right now. It is also a fact that were Ragnarok presented with that which we felt were terms or clauses that were intended to cripple IRON or were simply introduced out of spite or malfeasance, we would not have stood for it. Of course you just have my words to go by.

The enemy was and remains NPO for Ragnarok, for declaring on a friend of ours, and an ally of our allies, much as Ragnarok was an enemy to IRON when we declared on their allies in defense of our own. Even the animosity towards NPO would dissipate once this conflict is over. Grudges may remain.

If IRON holds a grudge, it is upto them. I hold none. I have no illusions of making friends with IRON after having just fought a war with them AND having taken reparations, well maybe not right away. Time will tell I guess. However I also have no illusions about them being a 10 headed monster that eats little children for breakfast. The people willing to go to bat for them, are some of the people I have respect for and trust. That tells me a lot about IRON.

edit: clarity

Edited May 28, 2009 by Alfred von Tirpitz

[dejarue]

Id like to be the first to state that CSN's reps to IRON for the next war is 10,000% of this war. Just to spread the love and put CSN back in its place

What place is that, big guy?

And CSN hasn't taken any reps this war. You know 10,000% of zero is still zero, right?

Spreadin' the love, baby.

Edited May 28, 2009 by deja

[youwish959]

IRON to me is someone who did what they needed to do. I have stated that earlier both in this thread and elsewhere. It was a war, they did their bit.

It is natural for IRON to be better disposed towards someone that gave them white peace as compared to someone that did not. Does not take a great intellect to grasp that. All I can say today, is that Ragnarok does not bear any ill will to IRON at this time. We have had our war.

The contention that the initial figures quoted for reparations were intended to delay the peace process is not correct. If it had not been for people we trust and fought alongside with persuading us, and us being persuaded, the initial figure would have stood. We know it, those that persuaded us know it, IRON knows it. Of course the full of the discussions that took place would most likely never be known to those that were not a part of it; however nowhere in the discussions, discussions that IRON was not a part of, was a desire to cripple IRON ever expressed by any alliance.

If the intention had been to punish them, as so many seem to think, there would need to have been a reason to punish them. There was no such reason. They simply defended their allies. Would do much the same if I were in their shoes. mhawk did that did he not, when the stupid mass cancellation on NPO came up.

IRON has the unique distinction of having fought with alliances that bore them little to none in form of ill will. Before, During and post conflict.

Yes, Ragnarok has asked for and taken reparations from IRON. That is a fact. It is also a fact that it is understood that IRON does not like Ragnarok right now. It is also a fact that were Ragnarok presented with that which we felt were terms or clauses that were intended to cripple IRON or were simply introduced out of spite or malfeasance, we would not have stood for it. Of course you just have my words to go by.

The enemy was and remains NPO for Ragnarok, for declaring on a friend of ours, and an ally of our allies, much as Ragnarok was an enemy to IRON when we declared on their allies in defense of our own. Even the animosity towards NPO would dissipate once this conflict is over. Grudges may remain.

If IRON holds a grudge, it is upto them. I hold none. I have no illusions of making friends with IRON after having just fought a war with them AND having taken reparations, well maybe not right away. Time will tell I guess. However I also have no illusions about them being a 10 headed monster that eats little children for breakfast. The people willing to go to bat for them, are some of the people I have respect for and trust. That tells me a lot about IRON.

edit: clarity

The fact you had to type all that to prove your point pretty much proves his.

[wickedj]

What place is that, big guy?

And CSN hasn't taken any reps this war. You know 10,000% of zero is still zero, right?

Spreadin' the love, baby.

I was told there would be no math

[Delta1212]

The fact you had to type all that to prove your point pretty much proves his.

Proves what?

[JBone]

IRON to me is someone who did what they needed to do. I have stated that earlier both in this thread and elsewhere. It was a war, they did their bit.

It is natural for IRON to be better disposed towards someone that gave them white peace as compared to someone that did not. Does not take a great intellect to grasp that. All I can say today, is that Ragnarok does not bear any ill will to IRON at this time. We have had our war.

The contention that the initial figures quoted for reparations were intended to delay the peace process is not correct. If it had not been for people we trust and fought alongside with persuading us, and us being persuaded, the initial figure would have stood. We know it, those that persuaded us know it, IRON knows it. Of course the full of the discussions that took place would most likely never be known to those that were not a part of it; however nowhere in the discussions, discussions that IRON was not a part of, was a desire to cripple IRON ever expressed by any alliance.

If the intention had been to punish them, as so many seem to think, there would need to have been a reason to punish them. There was no such reason. They simply defended their allies. Would do much the same if I were in their shoes. mhawk did that did he not, when the stupid mass cancellation on NPO came up.

IRON has the unique distinction of having fought with alliances that bore them little to none in form of ill will. Before, During and post conflict.

Yes, Ragnarok has asked for and taken reparations from IRON. That is a fact. It is also a fact that it is understood that IRON does not like Ragnarok right now. It is also a fact that were Ragnarok presented with that which we felt were terms or clauses that were intended to cripple IRON or were simply introduced out of spite or malfeasance, we would not have stood for it. Of course you just have my words to go by.

The enemy was and remains NPO for Ragnarok, for declaring on a friend of ours, and an ally of our allies, much as Ragnarok was an enemy to IRON when we declared on their allies in defense of our own. Even the animosity towards NPO would dissipate once this conflict is over. Grudges may remain.

If IRON holds a grudge, it is upto them. I hold none. I have no illusions of making friends with IRON after having just fought a war with them AND having taken reparations, well maybe not right away. Time will tell I guess. However I also have no illusions about them being a 10 headed monster that eats little children for breakfast. The people willing to go to bat for them, are some of the people I have respect for and trust. That tells me a lot about IRON.

edit: clarity

Fair enough.

Your word has always been good enough for me.

That has not changed.

Good to see you AvT.

[Krash]

The amount of cash to replace my infrastructure alone is over 800 million...

My bad man. But I just rubbed you. Rubbing is racing. I have some duct tape and a pack of hubba bubba if you need it.

Dang and I said I was going to let this thread die.

[ThatFALGuy]

Congrats to our friends IRON in attaining a peace.

Also good show and responsible actions from FCC, Gre, FARK and MHA.

[KingZus]

IRON put a good fight.

i just felt bad fighting them as they use to be my brothers and sisters about 2 months ago. Does any of u IRON members remeber Menton.

[WarriorConcept]

With all due respect, i beg to differ. Because of our higher average infra levels, the infra that was destroyed was way more expensive. A 3m aid pack does not do much at that range, whereas it can rebuild a 3-5k nation completely. Also, we need to organize our techdeals outside of our alliance, we dont have a lot of small nations we can use. The only thing that is left for us is to blow our warchests, which helps of course, but will result in stagnating growth eventually since we will need to stock them up again.

Theres not really a chance for a top-tier alliance to use monetary aid to rebuild.

So you're a top tier alliance and don't need aid to rebuild, while RoK isn't and thus would need the aid more to rebuild. Thanks for making his point?

[Joe Kremlin]

I'm guessing that it's not worth going through 40+ pages to see what you've been talking about.

congrats on peace

[Chalaskan]

So you're a top tier alliance and don't need aid to rebuild, while RoK isn't and thus would need the aid more to rebuild. Thanks for making his point?

Try again....He said it was much harder for top tier alliances to rebuild their nations.

Reading comprehension FTW.

[Lakeyatlarge]

Lotta good folks in IRON. Way to show em what for and stand up for your allies

*Salute

[Poyplemonkeys]

Try again....He said it was much harder for top tier alliances to rebuild their nations.

Reading comprehension FTW.

Making the reparations ineffectual for the top tier alliances. However RoK isn't a top tier alliance so reps are needed, and will also have a visible effect on the majority of their nations. I thought WC's point was pretty clear to be honest, I certainly understood it with my limited knowledge of the game's mechanics.

[ChairmanHal]

Making the reparations ineffectual for the top tier alliances. However RoK isn't a top tier alliance so reps are needed, and will also have a visible effect on the majority of their nations. I thought WC's point was pretty clear to be honest, I certainly understood it with my limited knowledge of the game's mechanics.

Let's look at Ragnarok.

Sanctioned, #12 on Planet Bob at the moment putting them well within the top 10% of the top 200 alliances. Before the war they were in the middle tier of sanctioned alliances and will likely resume that place after the war is over for them, reparation or no reparations. They do need to address a slow leakage of total nations that started well before the war (at one time they had over 500 nations and are currently down 100 or so) if they want to retain sanction status long term, but that has nothing to do with this conversation.

Were reparations desirable? Sure. Needed? Not really, not if your definition of reparations is compensation design to restore an alliance to the position they were in before.

[Poyplemonkeys]

Were reparations desirable? Sure. Needed? Not really, not if your definition of reparations is compensation design to restore an alliance to the position they were in before.

That would not be my definition. Reparations would just help that process. If reparations were to restore an alliance to where they were before the figures would be astronomical, not 1.5bil. Just saying there are far more nations in RoK who would benefit from 3mil packages than there is in TOP.