Mergers

[JerreyRough]

All I have to say right now is quit spewing ideas for limiting the stats of mergers. It makes absolutely no sense for a merged nation to have anything but stacked infrastructure, citizens, military personnel, etc. How would it make sense for two nations to merge together, and then suddenly 40% of their infrastructure disappears? It makes no sense at all. The only exceptions are the obvious limits on technology and sharing and whatnot. Technology levels should not be the average of the nations int he merger, how could a nation with 2010 tech merge with a nation of 1980 tech and suddenly have 1995 tech? Nah, they should be just how they are now, same as a tech sharing deal.

I accidentally overlooked that.

The infrastructure, soilder count, tanks, (airplanes?), etc. Should be average, other than technology; technology won't stack and all nations use the nation with the most tech for their tech level.

EDIT: And yes it should take time.

Edited May 22, 2009 by JerreyRough

[King Kevz]

Well....obviously. Things don't just happen overnight.

Yes but lets be honest how many times have you seen anyone post that any merger has been working for months to get all of its poeple and nations to the same level. I havn't seen anyway and I won't complain about that but if people could post development it would be much better. Rather than people saying ok yea we merged all stats are average between us.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

Well....obviously. Things don't just happen overnight.

Agreed, but to be honest I don't think time should just past and say well this was improved. There are a lot of problems that come with bringing a third world nation front and center into the technological world. There of course are also a lot of advantages too. The problem is, is I don't think a merger between these kinds of weak and strong nations should just happen, there be a problem and then all of a sudden two weeks later the problem be solved without ever mentioning it again. It doesn't need to be extensive, just something to do. Also I'll say this now just to get it out of the way, I have a problem with both USA and Nordland in the fact that certain countries ICly I don't think would ever merger.

Example for Nordland: Tryiun and Iamthey are Communists. Nordland from what I can tell are extremely anti-Communist so if someone could clarify that for me, how anti-communists and communists are merging without wanting to kill each other.

Example for USA: Alovnia, New England, and Atlantis are Communists merging with the southern countries which I assume to be capitalists. I would like to know how that could occur ICly, besides culturally that you're American. Culture is strong but so are economics.

[Malatose]

Agreed, but to be honest I don't think time should just past and say well this was improved. There are a lot of problems that come with bringing a third world nation front and center into the technological world. There of course are also a lot of advantages too. The problem is, is I don't think a merger between these kinds of weak and strong nations should just happen, there be a problem and then all of a sudden two weeks later the problem be solved without ever mentioning it again. It doesn't need to be extensive, just something to do. Also I'll say this now just to get it out of the way, I have a problem with both USA and Nordland in the fact that certain countries ICly I don't think would ever merger.

Example for Nordland: Tryiun and Iamthey are Communists. Nordland from what I can tell are extremely anti-Communist so if someone could clarify that for me, how anti-communists and communists are merging without wanting to kill each other.

Example for USA: Alovnia, New England, and Atlantis are Communists merging with the southern countries which I assume to be capitalists. I would like to know how that could occur ICly, besides culturally that you're American. Culture is strong but so are economics.

Nordland isn't Anti-Communist. We simply disagree with ComIntern, which is Communist. Our ideology promotes the coming together of all Nordic people, no matter the party. We also promote social welfare etc. Hence the term we sometimes use, Nordic Socialism. We even draw some of our economic practices from communism/socialism.

From Socialism it takes the centralization of economy and protectionist measures, aiming to give the state power over the industry and market and at the same time to protect and isolate the nation from further markets as much as possible, the goal being selfsufficiency.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Malatose

[Uberstein]

I have to ask, where is all the organization RP for this merger? All I see is "we merged", then you say OOC you "Need time" to get up to speed, but never RP the unifying actions.

They are starting to go down the old path.

[Sarah Tintagyl]

Nordland isn't Anti-Communist. We simply disagree with ComIntern, which is Communist. Our ideology promotes the coming together of all Nordic people, no matter the party. We also promote social welfare etc. Hence the term we sometimes use, Nordic Socialism.

That's fine Vektor, I appreciate the answer.

[Centurius]

I have to ask, where is all the organization RP for this merger? All I see is "we merged", then you say OOC you "Need time" to get up to speed, but never RP the unifying actions.

They are starting to go down the old path.

If you would actually read the things other people say you would have noticed thousands of times it was said the NC especially the unifying of Foreign Policy and uniting of Cultures was a build up to a merger.

[Uberstein]

If you would actually read the things other people say you would have noticed thousands of times it was said the NC especially the unifying of Foreign Policy and uniting of Cultures was a build up to a merger.

So they were preparing for something that was against the rules? Either that or that justification is BS.

That also doesn't answer my logistics question.

Edited May 22, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Subtleknifewielder]

If you would actually read the things other people say you would have noticed thousands of times it was said the NC especially the unifying of Foreign Policy and uniting of Cultures was a build up to a merger.

So they were preparing for something that was against the rules? Either that or that justification is BS.

That also doesn't answer my logistics question.

This is correct. Cent, saying thall that was prepartation for the merger, when at the time mergers were banned, is like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Either they were building up to it, and thus violating the rules, or they weren't preparing, and then all of a sudden comes the onnouncemen, "Oh, BTW, we've merged, and here's our national charter."

[Raritan]

I have to ask, where is all the organization RP for this merger? All I see is "we merged", then you say OOC you "Need time" to get up to speed, but never RP the unifying actions.

They are starting to go down the old path.

The USA merger has 6 pages of discussions before it was finally signed, and we're still in the process of integrating and reorganizing our governments.

[Subtleknifewielder]

The USA merger has 6 pages of discussions before it was finally signed, and we're still in the process of integrating and reorganizing our governments.

...which is why you hear no complaints from me on how the USA is being handled. This is an example of how it SHOULD be done.

[Tahsir]

For those of you saying mergers should only happen within the same culture. How often do people RP massive social and governmental change in just a single post?

Not that hard to change if you want a merger.

[Uberstein]

The USA merger has 6 pages of discussions before it was finally signed, and we're still in the process of integrating and reorganizing our governments.

I was talking about the nords.

[JerreyRough]

There was build up, and although they were banned, the mod's said they were working on it and thus they built up for the decision unless one of them is a mod (which was most likely going to be to put mergers back in, in my opinion); they just had to wait for the actual decision so then they knew the new rules.

Of course, they could of been just going for a closely tied bloc before, then the merger rules came out & thus they went for that.

[Californian]

This is correct. Cent, saying thall that was prepartation for the merger, when at the time mergers were banned, is like trying to have your cake and eat it too. Either they were building up to it, and thus violating the rules, or they weren't preparing, and then all of a sudden comes the onnouncemen, "Oh, BTW, we've merged, and here's our national charter."

You and Uberstein are so ignorant. You pretend as if those two extremes are the only options, which is entirely untrue. The NC RPed a similar culture and all that jazz and while it is a prerequisite for a merger, does not mean they were RPing solely to form a merger. Maybe they enjoy making interesting RPs with similar cultures. However, now that mergers are indeed legal, all the RP by the Nordland countries can be used in the formation of the merger. In conclusion, the Nords have violated no rules and since they have RPed cimilar cultures, language, military policies, etc, for so long, it is perfectly acceptable for a merger.

In any case, I find it much more believable for the Nords to merge than a group of nations who are both communist and capitalist and have rped no similar culture or anything except for "oh look we all are located in America wouldn't it be cool to form the USA?"

[Shadowsage]

There are no cultures from RL; you get to pick your own. So, I could say that the Holy Imperium is entirely composed of Nords and in the same sentence declare an embargo against GNR. Makes no sense, but could do it. The point is that you're doing the exact same thing the United States has done and trying to denounce us for it; joining multiple economic and cultural systems under one banner.

[Markus Wilding]

You and Uberstein are so ignorant.

This may just be me, but I don't think it's a good idea to call a GM ignorant...

[Subtleknifewielder]

You and Uberstein are so ignorant. You pretend as if those two extremes are the only options, which is entirely untrue. The NC RPed a similar culture and all that jazz and while it is a prerequisite for a merger, does not mean they were RPing solely to form a merger. Maybe they enjoy making interesting RPs with similar cultures. However, now that mergers are indeed legal, all the RP by the Nordland countries can be used in the formation of the merger. In conclusion, the Nords have violated no rules and since they have RPed cimilar cultures, language, military policies, etc, for so long, it is perfectly acceptable for a merger.

In any case, I find it much more believable for the Nords to merge than a group of nations who are both communist and capitalist and have rped no similar culture or anything except for "oh look we all are located in America wouldn't it be cool to form the USA?"

Ehem. FYI, calling someone ignorant just because they disagree with you is a bad thing to do, m'kay?

I'm not calling you ignorant, I'm bothering to take the time to sit down and actually discuss this with you guys. I simply ask that you do me the same courtesy.

Now, to address your points, yes, it is one or the other, at least according to Cent.

If you would actually read the things other people say you would have noticed thousands of times it was said the NC especially the unifying of Foreign Policy and uniting of Cultures was a build up to a merger.

I was addressing this point when I replied.

Besides, yes you have RP'd similar cultures. Yes, you have RP'd close ties as a bloc. No, you have not sat down and discussed how to merge such vastly different governmental and economic systems as exist within the merged states (communism and anti communism, Socialism, dictatorship, democracy, free economy, government-controlled economy)--which is something those who became the USA actually bothered to do. And theyare still hashing out the details, as what would be the case if this had happened for real.

This may just be me, but I don't think it's a good idea to call a GM ignorant...

I won't abuse my GM power, but I will say that even if I was not a GM, I would not appreciate such a comment.

[Firestorm]

I'm not completely opposed to Mergers. I do suggest in the future that people seek out the GMs and ask for feedback on what will be expected of them to prevent this sort of hootnanny.

[sir jesus]

I felt that Nordic merge was well done.

[Firestorm]

No idea myself as I wasn't around for it.

[V The King]

All I have to say right now is quit spewing ideas for limiting the stats of mergers. It makes absolutely no sense for a merged nation to have anything but stacked infrastructure, citizens, military personnel, etc. How would it make sense for two nations to merge together, and then suddenly 40% of their infrastructure disappears? It makes no sense at all. The only exceptions are the obvious limits on technology and sharing and whatnot. Technology levels should not be the average of the nations int he merger, how could a nation with 2010 tech merge with a nation of 1980 tech and suddenly have 1995 tech? Nah, they should be just how they are now, same as a tech sharing deal.

Game balance, Merger.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Game balance, Merger.

That gets confusing when Mergerberger's nickname is the exact same word for the issue we're discussing...

[JEDCJT]

That gets confusing when Mergerberger's nickname is the exact same word for the issue we're discussing...

Heh, that's a bit ironic.

[Firestorm]

From now on all mergers will be referred to as "Jessica Albas".

Edited May 24, 2009 by Firestorm