Mergers

[Sumeragi]

Talking about The Europa blunder. You know, the 'war time' merger of 7 nations. Its not a non-reason, I literally made the merger to get rid of mergers. I've stated it hundreds of times...I hate mergers. Roleplay your own states into mergers to create your country. Use your own stats. If you'd like, RP the same concept as the USSR if you wish on your country, just keep it YOUR COUNTRY.

Oh, you mean Magna Europe. I agree with you on that.

The words above are wise. Listen to the wise words.

@ Fire: I would say foreign policy. Bloc countries have independent policy. Mergered countries have only one authority. For example, CNRP USA would either have to join or leave Comintern. Allowing independent policy for the states is impossible under a merger.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Sumeragi

[Firestorm]

How does a merge effect tech and infra? Do they take the average of all combined levels?

[LeVentNoir]

Oh, you mean Magna Europe. I agree with you on that.

The words above are wise. Listen to the wise words.

@ Fire: I would say foreign policy. Bloc countries have independent policy. Mergered countries have only one authority. For example, CNRP USA would either have to join or leave Comintern. Allowing independent policy for the states is impossible under a merger.

Except that GNR had some of its states sign a treaty and others didn't.

[Sumeragi]

Except that GNR had some of its states sign a treaty and others didn't.

Another example of what should not be done.

@Fire: There really is no set rule on what a merger does stat wise. I say we justt go by players go with their regular stats.

[Sargun II]

@ Fire: I would say foreign policy. Bloc countries have independent policy. Mergered countries have only one authority. For example, CNRP USA would either have to join or leave Comintern. Allowing independent policy for the states is impossible under a merger.

Incorrect. CNRP USA has the commie states joining the ComIntern and non-commie states not joining the ComIntern.

We are not completely centralized. It's a process and I hope that eventually we will be, but at this time we are for the most part independent states - but we have to start somewhere.

[King Kevz]

Incorrect. CNRP USA has the commie states joining the ComIntern and non-commie states not joining the ComIntern.

We are not completely centralized. It's a process and I hope that eventually we will be, but at this time we are for the most part independent states - but we have to start somewhere.

So you are a bloc moving towards becoming a merger?

[Sumeragi]

So you are a bloc moving towards becoming a merger?

Pretty much.

Sargun, I was just using the USA as an example to prove my point. You guys are still more a bloc than a true merger for now.

[Sargun II]

And? We're in a transition phase. We're a merger.

There is no one definition for a merger.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Sargun

[King Kevz]

And? We're in a transition phase. We're a merger.

There is no one definition for a merger.

A merger I thought was a number of nations combining into a single large nation? Like the states of america forming into the United States. The way i saw it was that each nation/state could make statements and laws etc for dealing internally but anything externally would be done as one large nation is that not happening?

[Subtleknifewielder]

No, that's !@#$%^&*. If you don't want to join mergers, fine, but don't make it because you don't want to that the rest of us have to suffer. I refuse to stand by and watch while people who choose to merger are persecuted for not doing anything wrong. Nothing ever comes from "better role-play", in the end it all comes down to stats because in the end it comes down to OOC !@#$%*ing about who can do what and who can't do what, and you know it as well as anyone. IC can only go so far when the wars are won in OOC. Give me one war in the past six months that had little OOC in it.

Correction--it did. If LVN's new tech system gets implimented, Stats will still be important--But so will quality Role-Play.

As for giving you a war that didn't have OOC...hardly all of the whining and complaining had to do with stats.

Well, i assume we are in modern time line. USA has been rebutted, it was not a meger, but a group of states which broke apart in unison. The UK was merged in 1707, nowhere near the kind of time we are playing in.

So, give me a merger that happened in the past 100 years.

Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union was by definition an alliance, a bloc, more than it was a merger. And its member states hardly had a choice about joining. So if you insist on calling it one nation...they were annexed, not merged.

So? The original formation of the USSR is what a merger is. Four nations in 1922 signed the Treaty of the Creation of the USSR and the Declaration of the Creation of the USSR.

Four nations...and how many of them were coerced into it? How many of the later members had a choice, really, about joining? It was an unfeasable Union anyway, as they collapsed from within.

A merger I thought was a number of nations combining into a single large nation? Like the states of america forming into the United States. The way i saw it was that each nation/state could make statements and laws etc for dealing internally but anything externally would be done as one large nation is that not happening?

The CNRP USA is transitioning towards that. They aren't instantly becoming a merger, like GN, but actually working towards it, actually Role-playing out the merging.

[Sargun II]

Correction--it did. If LVN's new tech system gets implimented, Stats will still be important--But so will quality Role-Play.

As for giving you a war that didn't have OOC...hardly all of the whining and complaining had to do with stats.

The Soviet Union was by definition an alliance, a bloc, more than it was a merger. And its member states hardly had a choice about joining. So if you insist on calling it one nation...they were annexed, not merged.

Four nations...and how many of them were coerced into it? How many of the later members had a choice, really, about joining? It was an unfeasable Union anyway, as they collapsed from within.

1. No, it still does. This new scale makes everything down to a formula - every single thing. You can RP having super awesome fighter pilots with 1501 tech but they're still worth the same amount of damage as a slingshot with 1501 tech. That doesn't help roleplaying at all.

2. Almost all of the whining and complaining had to do with stats.

3/4. I think you need to read up a bit on the USSR.

[Subtleknifewielder]

1. No, it still does. This new scale makes everything down to a formula - every single thing. You can RP having super awesome fighter pilots with 1501 tech but they're still worth the same amount of damage as a slingshot with 1501 tech. That doesn't help roleplaying at all.

2. Almost all of the whining and complaining had to do with stats.

3/4. I think you need to read up a bit on the USSR.

1. Doesn't it? If they're RP'ing realisticaly, they'll slowly develop the fighter. not instantl;y put it into production. Maybe it's unrealistic to say itll have the same power--as developing it takes RP, and therefore automatically gives it a little more power than the slingshot.

2. Stats? No, a good chunk of it had to do with readiness/alertness levels of the troops, and response times.

3/4. Do I? I know a lot of the histories SAY they chose the Soviet Union. But we all know that what's on the surface is hardly the whole truth. Yes, many chose to join the Soviet Union...because they really had no choice.

Vietnam is a prime example. They were ruled by the French, who were the US.'s allies in the Western nations. The Vietnamese asked for the French to leave, and eventually resorted to violent rebellion when the french refused to do so.

We were caught between a rock and a hard place, so to speak. Help the Vietnamese against the French, our allies in the 'fight against Communism,' or aid the French, who were violating our anti-colonialist policy?

We all know what happened. We aided the French, Vientnam got split--and eventually we got kicked out of Vietnam entirely.

[LeVentNoir]

1. No, it still does. This new scale makes everything down to a formula - every single thing. You can RP having super awesome fighter pilots with 1501 tech but they're still worth the same amount of damage as a slingshot with 1501 tech. That doesn't help roleplaying at all.

2. Almost all of the whining and complaining had to do with stats.

3/4. I think you need to read up a bit on the USSR.

Actually, its not compared to a slingshot. You have to compare planes with plane. Thats the thing about it.

1. Doesn't it? If they're RP'ing realisticaly, they'll slowly develop the fighter. not instantl;y put it into production. Maybe it's unrealistic to say itll have the same power--as developing it takes RP, and therefore automatically gives it a little more power than the slingshot.

Actually, it was more to stop "hurr, I has super awesome feature! yous cannot hurt me tank, hurr" But to encourage. "Ok, so your take has a slightly less TE than mine, so you flanked me, I guess I'll have to accept that I got thrashed in this little skirmish.

[Cody Seb]

Why does everyone keep using the USSR as a merger example? The Russian Empire conquered all those lands and then when the Revolution came, it just transferred over. Not a merger.

[Voodoo Nova]

Why does everyone keep using the USSR as a merger example? The Russian Empire conquered all those lands and then when the Revolution came, it just transferred over. Not a merger.

Because the RSFSR, the Transcaucasian SFSR, the Ukrainian SSR and the Byelorussian SSR all signed the Treaty of Creation of the USSR and the Declaration of the Creation of the USSR. That's 4 nations that initially created the USSR.

[Firestorm]

How many Soviet armies were squatting in those countries when they signed this document?

[Subtleknifewielder]

Because the RSFSR, the Transcaucasian SFSR, the Ukrainian SSR and the Byelorussian SSR all signed the Treaty of Creation of the USSR and the Declaration of the Creation of the USSR. That's 4 nations that initially created the USSR.

How many Soviet armies were squatting in those countries when they signed this document?

I think you mean Russian armies, but essentially, the questions stands. Well?

[Shadowsage]

Considering the Revolutions gutting the army at the time; I wouldn't care to place a bet anywhere except between 1 and 0.

[mykep]

Not to continue this whole mess and attack on GNR, but I wanted to bring this to point. I believe every nation has now been building underneath thier nation. How is this possible when nuclear war hit there not once but twice? The soil is what absorbs the radiation, and putting people into a condensed room of it(underground) would surely kill off a large amount of people down there. Another thing I'd like to address, as advanced as they seem, I feel they are WAY over thier amount of money considering creating underground facilities would kill an economy. Ontop of thier advanced turrets, army, weapons, systems, and everything else they consider roleplaying. Its not an issue of if it is borderline, but that it is way over the top. Europe is a bunker, with advanced weapon systems to stop missiles and everything from hitting it, with advanced army, navy and aircraft, and parts of it are under ground and those that are not are protected by advanced turrets. As great of a defense as it is, I calculated that they spent a total of 1 ,786 ,263 ,170 ,179 which is (3.228tril) 55.33% of your nations expenses on JUST tanks, weapons, aircraft and navy. Nevermind the extra "smart torpedoes, turrets and underground and everything else.

Also, I believe all militaries of mergers should be intergrated. Sure they all want thier unique style but production costs would definitly be alot better and alot faster and more efficient if they produced the same tank rather than all different ones. Same thing goes for turrets, systems, and all infrustructure. You could easily have engineers from nation A go to nation B and help build something Nation A already did alot faster if they were in a merge.

On top of that, I have to bring up the point that all nations should be watching what they spend and where they spend it and to NOT go over it. Variables will always occur of course, and I am not talking 100-500 billion dollars off, but 1 or 2 trillion. This occurs moreso in mergers since everyone is doing different things and has different objectives.

[Sargun II]

I would support an integrated army for mergers - unfortunately the current rules prevent it and I was unable to implement it in the USA merger.

In addition, finally somebody trying to fix mergers instead of saying that they should just be gone. I agree that people spend way too much, and that underground building is just insane considering that you're building all these advanced weapon systems, ships, defenses, factories and everything else in weeks and months instead of what would realistically be years.

[Justinian the Mighty]

Not to continue this whole mess and attack on GNR, but I wanted to bring this to point. I believe every nation has now been building underneath thier nation. How is this possible when nuclear war hit there not once but twice? The soil is what absorbs the radiation, and putting people into a condensed room of it(underground) would surely kill off a large amount of people down there. Another thing I'd like to address, as advanced as they seem, I feel they are WAY over thier amount of money considering creating underground facilities would kill an economy. Ontop of thier advanced turrets, army, weapons, systems, and everything else they consider roleplaying. Its not an issue of if it is borderline, but that it is way over the top. Europe is a bunker, with advanced weapon systems to stop missiles and everything from hitting it, with advanced army, navy and aircraft, and parts of it are under ground and those that are not are protected by advanced turrets. As great of a defense as it is, I calculated that they spent a total of 1 ,786 ,263 ,170 ,179 which is (3.228tril) 55.33% of your nations expenses on JUST tanks, weapons, aircraft and navy. Nevermind the extra "smart torpedoes, turrets and underground and everything else.

Also, I believe all militaries of mergers should be intergrated. Sure they all want thier unique style but production costs would definitly be alot better and alot faster and more efficient if they produced the same tank rather than all different ones. Same thing goes for turrets, systems, and all infrustructure. You could easily have engineers from nation A go to nation B and help build something Nation A already did alot faster if they were in a merge.

On top of that, I have to bring up the point that all nations should be watching what they spend and where they spend it and to NOT go over it. Variables will always occur of course, and I am not talking 100-500 billion dollars off, but 1 or 2 trillion. This occurs moreso in mergers since everyone is doing different things and has different objectives.

They’re obviously masters at economic matters. Several countries can undegroundized all their factories in 1 post, and launch 2 cruise missiles at hundreds of targets without crippling the economy... duh

[mykep]

On top of that, Europe has become a base. It is annoying. The USA (RL) Is one of, if not the best military nation in the world. They dont even have this @#$% cause its really not possible. And if it was, its a waste of the tax payers money who would honestly not like any of it. New York City is the greatest city in the world...I dont see any turrets, tanks roaming the streets...

[Subtleknifewielder]

On top of that, Europe has become a base. It is annoying. The USA (RL) Is one of, if not the best military nation in the world. They dont even have this @#$% cause its really not possible. And if it was, its a waste of the tax payers money who would honestly not like any of it. New York City is the greatest city in the world...I dont see any turrets, tanks roaming the streets...

Of course, the US isn't a militaristic nation, but your point still stands. It isn't because even on the off chance we could afford it--the people wouldn't stand for it.

[JEDCJT]

On top of that, Europe has become a base. It is annoying. The USA (RL) Is one of, if not the best military nation in the world. They dont even have this @#$% cause its really not possible. And if it was, its a waste of the tax payers money who would honestly not like any of it. New York City is the greatest city in the world...I dont see any turrets, tanks roaming the streets...

Someone mention New York City?

Sorry, I had to do this...

[LeVentNoir]

Simply put, nations should be able to present a yearly budget, a year should be a fixed time RL and all expenses of the country should be able to be accounted for the budget. This would stop most of the retarded super fortification occurring, or have it scaled back to a correct time frame.