Mergers

[Lynneth]

For a militaristic nation on the scale of the Nordreich, look at North Korea.

Extremely poor-living people, huge military. Crazy border-defenses.

[mykep]

For a militaristic nation on the scale of the Nordreich, look at North Korea.

Extremely poor-living people, huge military. Crazy border-defenses.

The extremely poor living conditions are the problem, they RP that they do not have any.

[Subtleknifewielder]

The extremely poor living conditions are the problem, they RP that they do not have any.

So it is possible--just not the way they're doing it?

[JerreyRough]

So it is possible--just not the way they're doing it?

That would mean taking money spent into the military and putting it into developing civilian needs (and thus not truely having a complete-mililtary basis and take on things). If they had more money, then yes they could; but it would take so much money that they could spend it "better" in R&D.

[Sumeragi]

You people seem to forget that NK is poor because it is neither technologically advanced nor food independent. However, GNR has both high tech and fertile land.

I don't agree with the very fast speed of the building, but GNR has the chance to not be like NK in living standards. It would be Spartan, but still comfortable enough.

[HHAYD]

You people seem to forget that NK is poor because it is neither technologically advanced nor food independent. However, GNR has both high tech and fertile land.

I don't agree with the very fast speed of the building, but GNR has the chance to not be like NK in living standards. It would be Spartan, but still comfortable enough.

However, if GNR puts too much of their budget into the military (super underground fortresses, giant underground bunkers, insane amount of super heavy armored troops, rail gun equipped ships, anti-everything systems, etc), then we are talking about a greatly weaken economy and poor living conditions.

[Sumeragi]

However, if GNR puts too much of their budget into the military (super underground fortresses, giant underground bunkers, insane amount of super heavy armored troops, rail gun equipped ships, anti-everything systems, etc), then we are talking about a greatly weaken economy and poor living conditions.

Define poor. If poor means not having a lot of consumer goods, I would have to say GNR would be poor. However, a healthy Spartan lifestyle is surely possible.

Perhaps we need to rethink living conditions.

[HHAYD]

Define poor. If poor means not having a lot of consumer goods, I would have to say GNR would be poor. However, a healthy Spartan lifestyle is surely possible.

Perhaps we need to rethink living conditions.

Alright, poorly funded infrastructure, police, fire protection, education, health, and etc. Basically a 3rd world nation economy and infrastructure, yet a 1st world nation military.

Edited May 28, 2009 by HHAYD

[mykep]

Define poor. If poor means not having a lot of consumer goods, I would have to say GNR would be poor. However, a healthy Spartan lifestyle is surely possible.

Perhaps we need to rethink living conditions.

Considering 55% of thier economy is spent on just thier basic units, without the special effects which would make it alot more, I'd say NK is pretty okay. Most jobs are military and underground, and thier surface is ridden with turrets and military units travelling about. Not to mention everything underground is radioactive, making the citizens unhealthy.

Honestly, the only thing that looks good are thier government buildings, which are very shiny. The rest is terrible.

[Sumeragi]

Alright, poorly funded infrastructure, police, fire protection, education, health, and etc. Basically a 3rd world nation economy and infrastructure, yet a 1st world nation military.

In the US, total government expenditure takes up about 30% of GDP. The rest is consumer goods. Get how biased most of us are on the economy?

[Subtleknifewielder]

Considering 55% of thier economy is spent on just thier basic units, without the special effects which would make it alot more, I'd say NK is pretty okay. Most jobs are military and underground, and thier surface is ridden with turrets and military units travelling about. Not to mention everything underground is radioactive, making the citizens unhealthy.

Honestly, the only thing that looks good are thier government buildings, which are very shiny. The rest is terrible.

That is, of course, if they are trying to RP within statistical means...

[Malatose]

Considering 55% of thier economy is spent on just thier basic units, without the special effects which would make it alot more, I'd say NK is pretty okay. Most jobs are military and underground, and thier surface is ridden with turrets and military units travelling about. Not to mention everything underground is radioactive, making the citizens unhealthy.

Honestly, the only thing that looks good are thier government buildings, which are very shiny. The rest is terrible.

Defensive facilities don't cost that much to maintain. And you make it seem our entire country is riddled in defenses. If you'd red our factbook, you'd notice all major deployments are close to the border. Not to mention most of our military is demobilized..no use have a fully mobilized military especially when there is no war.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Malatose

[Kaiser Martens]

The only parts of the countries that are somewhat resembling what you describe is former Nordheim, that is because citizens simply don't like luxury there, it's a "spartan" like society, they see the rest of the Nordlanders as posh really, Nordheimers only actually spend big money when it comes to food and drinks and weapons. The rest of Nordland, especially Wästerdyskreich, Germany and Prussia are extremely wealthy.

[Subtleknifewielder]

In the US, total government expenditure takes up about 30% of GDP. The rest is consumer goods. Get how biased most of us are on the economy?

GDP is not the government's budget. The government's budget is what we are talking about.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Defensive facilities don't cost that much to maintain. And you make it seem our entire country is riddled in defenses. If you'd red our factbook, you'd notice all major deployments are close to the border. Not to mention most of our military is demobilized..no use have a fully mobilized military especially when there is no war.

But they cost a lot to build, a lot more than you're RP'ing.

And even just to cover the borders, that's highly expensive. And mainanence will copst more than you seem to think, considering the high-tech nature of the items.

The only parts of the countries that are somewhat resembling what you describe is former Nordheim, that is because citizens simply don't like luxury there, it's a "spartan" like society, they see the rest of the Nordlanders as posh really, Nordheimers only actually spend big money when it comes to food and drinks and weapons. The rest of Nordland, especially Wästerdyskreich, Germany and Prussia are extremely wealthy.

So where does the wealth come from, exactly, if you try to RP a closed economy?

[mykep]

In the US, total government expenditure takes up about 30% of GDP. The rest is consumer goods. Get how biased most of us are on the economy?

Some of the 30% is given back to the consumer and private industries. Not anymore... Obama

Defensive facilities don't cost that much to maintain. And you make it seem our entire country is riddled in defenses. If you'd red our factbook, you'd notice all major deployments are close to the border. Not to mention most of our military is demobilized..no use have a fully mobilized military especially when there is no war.

They cost it when they are underground...and you are making them now.

[Malatose]

Some of the 30% is given back to the consumer and private industries. Not anymore... Obama

They cost it when they are underground...and you are making them now.

I ordered the construction of few underground munition factories. We aren't transferring our entire industrial base underground. In the GNR, the average Nord lives very comfortably. He has nice housing, makes very good pay (based on educational level etc).

Yes, we do put alot into Defense at the moment, but not the amount to totally cripple a country as you guys have stated. With the amount of defense contracts being authorized, I'd say there are actually more jobs available..COMBINED with the normal civilian job available, which will benefit the economy greatly. For example, in RL, at one F-22 Boeing plant, 1,200 to 1,500 people are employed.

Statis structures aren't that expensive to construct anyway, they are alot cheaper than mobile defenses which requires logistics and around the clock repairs.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Malatose

[HHAYD]

Some of the 30% is given back to the consumer and private industries. Not anymore... Obama

He is giving back 40% of it! The other 10% comes from printing and borrowing money.

[Malatose]

But they cost a lot to build, a lot more than you're RP'ing.

And even just to cover the borders, that's highly expensive. And mainanence will copst more than you seem to think, considering the high-tech nature of the items.

So where does the wealth come from, exactly, if you try to RP a closed economy?

Alot of structures were already constructed before the merger. We just decided to add them into our factbook. Also,if you'd read our factbook..you'll see what kind of economy we operate. We are not a closed economic model like you all seem to think..

Also maintenance is quite easy, especially for static objects. What is there to repair? All you have to do is check the gun barrel..do a weekly check on the electronics etc. Computer chips are so easy to mass produce these days..they are of no concern.

Edited May 28, 2009 by Malatose

[Uberstein]

Structures actually require quite a bit of repair. It's surprising how much damage nature does to things on it's own.

[Sumeragi]

GDP is not the government's budget. The government's budget is what we are talking about.

The budget comes out of GDP, unless you print money. A nation can reduce the consumption to build up more budgets for the government, as NK did.

Mykep, can you post how you came up with $1.7 trillion?

Edited May 28, 2009 by Sumeragi

[mykep]

I ordered the construction of few underground munition factories. We aren't transferring our entire industrial base underground..

Your turrets are around your major cities and borders. You have EMP protected communications. You have The Anti-Air Defence Network, the Anti-Sea Defence Network, the Invasion Defence Network, the Ground Assistance Defence Network, and the National Defence Network. You have the viking system. Voodoo has a lot of underground factories. You are actively patrolling the Baltic with 5 carrier groups. You did remove radioactive soil, but it still goes downwards to where you making your facilities.

I'm not saying, get rid of all of it and start again. I'm saying calm down.

[iamthey]

But they cost a lot to build, a lot more than you're RP'ing.

And even just to cover the borders, that's highly expensive. And mainanence will copst more than you seem to think, considering the high-tech nature of the items.

So where does the wealth come from, exactly, if you try to RP a closed economy?

They are not poor in so far as they have a wide population base, and access to the needed resources. In closed economies a government controlled central bank issues loans to the government and to the major banks which is used as capital in investment both by the state and by private industry. The industries/gov then randomly distributes the funds by buying things (Investing in themselves) and paying people. Wealth is re-concentrated when people buy things returning it to the industries to then re-invest, or to the government in the form of taxes. This leads to a cycle of investment and re-concentration. Of course as this happens goods and services are also expanded be it in the form of more jobs, more industry, more defenses or whatever, and therefore the central bank can lower intrest rates to inflate the currency relative to the economic expansion (essentially adding wood to the already burning fire). This applies to any standard economic system that operates under modern monetary policy. What makes Nordland Special is that industry is publicly controlled meaning the construction of defenses and massive buildings really only further stimulates the economy (as it is pumping capital into industry via government funding which is further disseminated to a large work force and then re-captured through commerce and taxation). Meaning if anything their massive military spending is really only good for their economy, and raises more revenue as it encourages more economic activity increasing the rate of concentration and expanding their tax base. The over all loss here is not government funds as you might think, but rather resources, as long as they can continue to produce resources to fuel this massive economic machine, they can essentially do whatever they want.

Edited May 28, 2009 by iamthey

[mykep]

Mykep, can you post how you came up with $1.7 trillion?

I did the calculations using factbooks and thier update thread. I googled costs of tanks and used basic units and compared them to advanced ones, using the basic prices. I posted it at 4:30 am in IRC once with both Vektor and Old Greg present. I am not doing it again.

[iamthey]

Alot of structures were already constructed before the merger. We just decided to add them into our factbook. Also,if you'd read our factbook..you'll see what kind of economy we operate. We are not a closed economic model like you all seem to think..

Also they re-denominated their currency rather than merged it so the effects of the past spending would have no effect on the new currency. In fact if they issued it a a ratio of X:1 where X>1 it would actually make their currency more valuable and depending on how large the difference is would result in an economy wide deflation of the currency.

Edited May 28, 2009 by iamthey