People's Republic of China

[Elrich von Richt]

"The Greater Japanese Empire finds the direct annexation of this territory to be going a step further than required, but regardless applauds the People's Republic of China for removing anarchistic threats from the region before they had the chance to branch out. Perhaps some form of protectorate could be worked out?"

- Empress Haruhi Suzumiya

[Mergerberger II]

[size="2"]Vietnam adamantly opposes this action of the annexation of Southeast Asia by the People's Republic of China. It is an absolutely ridiculous move that can in no way be protected by any amount of spin doctoring or reasoning of any kind that could be find in any document in any place. There is absolutely no reason for this annexation. There are no historical ties with the land, there was no anarchy, in fact there was order, and the People's Republic was doing a fine job of keeping that order in their protectorate, and the Republic of Vietnam supported that. Instead, you have created for yourselves a puppet state in Southeast Asia, a zone that is completely untied with you minus your protectorate.

If there was trouble for you keeping order in the region, then you should have simply made a phone call to Vietnam. We would have happily engaged in a joint security operation to help to settle any revolts taking place in the region, as it is very close to us ethnically, historically, and geographically. We are well-prepared for warfare in Southeast Asia and we would have been able to do a fine job had you simply made the phone call to our offices to ask for our help in the security of Southeast Asia.[/size]

There is no logical, obvious reason for this annexation beyond the simple matter of imperialism. You have no cultural ties to the region, but then again, what would the People's Republic of China know of cultural ties or the needs of a nation of ethnically similar people? Their leader is a German, not a man from China. How can your government claim to serve its people on any level when your leader is not even a man of the people he claims to be from?

I have never seen nor have I ever dreamed that the People's Republic would ever have committed an action so immoral as this. But then again, I suppose I should have foreseen it. After all, just recently you committed genocide. As you move more troops into the region, and you pretend to have elections in your new puppet state, you are surely planting the seeds of oppression to a people that will hopefully not care for their own needs and instead succumb to your 'overwhelming force'. Surely you have at least some morality? No, I suppose not. What more could I expect from a country that refuses to give Saigon, a Vietnamese city, to the Vietnamese people? Instead you have leased it to Arabs for your own benefit. How can one lease a city? You put a price on an entire city. It is colonialism, nothing more. You are expanding yourselves in Southeast Asia and I will have none of it. When will you come for Vietnam, Rorschach?

This is an absolutely ridiculous move and in no way, shape, or form will the Republic of Vietnam support it. We will offer no assistance to China. May your expeditions be fruitless and may your overreaching empire crumble from within.

Good day.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Mergerberger II

[iamthey]

"Greater Pacifica withholds recognition of the antonymous government at this time. We would be more comfortable if the people of the region were given an opportunity for independence and self determination, we hope this is merely a prelude to such a release at a future time, and that if the people so desired they would be granted independence." - Ariea Vern, Minister of Foreign Affairs


*Private*

"The PRC is the dominate military power in the territory. If they so desire to impose themselves [i]let them[/i], until another force repels them. That is the enduring nature of conquest. My approval to the victor, whoever it may be." - Michael Atrevier, Crown Prince of Greater Pacifica

Edited May 12, 2010 by iamthey

[Sargun II]

"They have free elections and are ruled by themselves. They are given support from the Chinese, who declined to annex it and have it ruled over by Chinese. They have their own foreign policy. Yes, I can see all of the oppression and Chinese assimilation. I mean, come on - they're even allowed to elect their own leaders without Chinese interference! That's a surefire sign of imperialist !@#$%^&* forcing millions of people onto their knees."

OOC: i like how you're not sticking to true IC form here guys. really classy.

Edited May 12, 2010 by Sargun

[Triyun]

"Free elections under military occupation a laughable concept. If they truly valued the freedom of choice, rather than placing them under a jack boot, they would return the peoples to a status quo protectorate until truly nationalist force could rise up and establish free governments on their own. Forgive me if we do not trust a government that makes a habit of ethnic cleansing."

[Sargun II]

"All countries are under military occupation, it just depends on the ruler whether or not to oppress with it."

[Sir Keshav IV]

You are really accusing us of genocide? When did we ever systematically destroy a certain ethnic group or race? Coming from Vietnam is rich, I mean after all IT IS US who gave your freedom. Calling us genocidal is wrong. Just plain wrong. We have never ever practiced Genocide neither have we supported. That is something we find disgusting. Maybe you do not know, but we value human life just as much as every other country in this world does. If we did practice genocide, then why is there still a Vietnam? Shouldn't all the people have been dead? Its laughable at least to claim we practiced genocide. Maybe even the Oceania Union, which we hate would support our claim. We never practiced genocide. You can see Borneo. We never transported a certain ethnic group or race to camps and then kill them. We are not mental. We might be rather loud, but we are not mental. Don't accuse us of something you have next no proof of or something we have never practiced.

Now onto allegations on Ethnic Cleansing. This policy hasn't been enforced in a long long time. Australia rather Promised Land understood why we brought that policy into effect. It was disastrous to our nation. We lost almost 60% of our population and our work force was predominantly the elderly. We saw no further reason to have it in effect in China and as such we voided it. Now nearly 30% of our population are immigrants. We have very tight rules for immigration. It is to make sure we don't get the kind of people that practice all the wrong things like thieving etc. We never followed the One China Policy, was never enforced onto Borneo(We gained Borneo about the same time that policy came into effect). For nearly 6-7 years now we have scrapped that policy. We were wrong in even creating a policy such as that.

Vietnam is probably the most funny state we have seen after Lu. Calling me German? You do not know my past, nor my present. No one does, and I keep it that way. Either get some facts about me, and stop throwing around accusations. Your nation might be young, but its sure as hell not foolish.

Allegations on Saigon, We have an airbase in Douala, Africa. Our allies in Novak requested for such a base in SE Asia. We cannot deny our ally a foreign base much like it was not denied in Douala. As such we offered various places and then decided on Saigon. It just so happened that Vietnam wanted Independence after the deal with Novak was completed. It was in complete confidence we gave the land to Novak, as they are:-
1) Allies
2) Respectable Nation
3) They are your allies
We cannot go back on a treaty signed before Vietnam even wanted independence. At least we cannot because, the treaty was signed. I will never go back on my word, neither will China. We promised free elections in Acca Dacca, and your officers are welcomed to see the process going on. The Communist Party has been banned and so has any Socialist movement in Acca Dacca. Right now there is no point hurting this already unstable situation.

Oh and next time before accusing us of genocide, please do it with proper facts. Otherwise we just find it funny.
-President Rorschach

Edited May 12, 2010 by Sir Keshav IV

[iKrolm]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='11 May 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1273643575' post='2295821']
We cannot go back on a treaty signed before Vietnam even wanted independence. At least we cannot because, the treaty was signed. I will never go back on my word, neither will China. We promised free elections in Acca Dacca, and your officers are welcomed to see the process going on. The Communist Party has been banned and so has any Socialist movement in Acca Dacca. Right now there is no point hurting this already unstable situation.
[/quote]

The very fact that a political party has been banned destroys the credibility of any elections that take place. If the PRC was really interested in free elections and the freedom of the Acca Daccan people, the PRC would allow the Acca Daccan people to create their own government and govern themselves. Instead, the PRC chooses to impose it's own rule over nearly all of a formerly-free nation.

[Sir Keshav IV]

"Do you even want to know why it was banned? Because if it wins, there will be claims of vote rigging in name of the Communist Party and all blame will be placed on us. Acca Dacca never had a socialist or a communist movement. We aren't imposing any rules except banning the Communist Party. Good to see one rule is cutting their freedom short. Try harder next time."

[Subtleknifewielder]

"While we objected to the Chinese ever possessing Borneo on principle, it is true that they never performed ethnic cleansing or genocide, as we originally feared when they annexed it. If you are going to condemn a nation...do so with instances of things that actually happened."

[iKrolm]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='11 May 2010 - 11:53 PM' timestamp='1273647201' post='2295849']
"Do you even want to know why it was banned? Because if it wins, there will be claims of vote rigging in name of the Communist Party and all blame will be placed on us. Acca Dacca never had a socialist or a communist movement. We aren't imposing any rules except banning the Communist Party. Good to see one rule is cutting their freedom short. Try harder next time."
[/quote]

And so political parties are banned for the fear that they might win an election? The original point still stands.

[Sir Keshav IV]

"No it doesn't. If you read what we meant. We are a communist nation. If the communist party wins in Acca Dacca all blame will be laid on us. They will have accusations of vote rigging etc. In fact we invite a commission from Selenactos, to see for a fact that we haven't oppressed the people of Acca Dacca in any form at all.

[iamthey]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='12 May 2010 - 08:42 AM' timestamp='1273650128' post='2295870']
"No it doesn't. If you read what we meant. We are a communist nation. If the communist party wins in Acca Dacca all blame will be laid on us. They will have accusations of vote rigging etc. In fact we invite a commission from Selenactos, to see for a fact that we haven't oppressed the people of Acca Dacca in any form at all.
[/quote]

Socialism isn't anything special or esoteric in its nature. Any country that has ever been exposed to it will be influenced by its philosophy. Acca Dacca was a free and open society, while they may not have been ruled by a communist party, there was no doubt some presence on the part of the movement itself. To outlaw a socialist or communist movement because of how it will reflect on the mother country, the PRC, if it wins is going to be oppressive on some level to those legitimate and true believing communists and socialists that are present in Acca Dacca. If you are going to have free elections, setting the precedent of regulating the politics of the sub-regime, only legitimizes the concerns of foreign observers. What are you going to do with a communist party is created illegally? Arrest its members, prevent them from voting, ban their candidates from running? What if they run as non-partisan candidates? In either case those actions don't sound very democratic at all.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='iamthey' date='12 May 2010 - 08:05 AM' timestamp='1273651528' post='2295877']
Socialism isn't anything special or esoteric in its nature. Any country that has ever been exposed to it will be influenced by its philosophy. Acca Dacca was a free and open society, while they may not have been ruled by a communist party, there was no doubt some presence on the part of the movement itself. To outlaw a socialist or communist movement because of how it will reflect on the mother country, the PRC, if it wins is going to be oppressive on some level to those legitimate and true believing communists and socialists that are present in Acca Dacca. If you are going to have free elections, setting the precedent of regulating the politics of the sub-regime, only legitimizes the concerns of foreign observers. What are you going to do with a communist party is created illegally? Arrest its members, prevent them from voting, ban their candidates from running? What if they run as non-partisan candidates? In either case those actions don't sound very democratic at all.
[/quote]

"We really can't do much. Once the Acca Daccan elections are over and the new Prime Minister takes oath of office, it is upto he/she to decide whether they will arrest the Communist party members or repeal the ban. We have no say in what they do once the elections are over."

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='12 May 2010 - 12:42 AM' timestamp='1273650128' post='2295870']
"No it doesn't. If you read what we meant. We are a communist nation. If the communist party wins in Acca Dacca all blame will be laid on us. They will have accusations of vote rigging etc. In fact we invite a commission from Selenactos, to see for a fact that we haven't oppressed the people of Acca Dacca in any form at all.
[/quote]
"Australia tires of this bickering. It is known there is little love lost between China and ourselves. However, we are willing toentertain the notin that maybem, just maybe, in this instance, China has the best interests of the Acca Daccans in mind. We offer to send in observers ourselves, as an unbiased third party, should China approve. If the results of this election are proven to be unbiased, will our allies be satisfied?"

[Sir Keshav IV]

"Australia is welcomed to send in observers."

[Triyun]

So long as the nation is subordinate to the PRC military we see no way that they cannot simply wait till after the observers leave to return to heavy handed tactics, or slowly but surely reinstitute control. There have been instances in the past of allowing free elections but the foreign military still exercises control. We believe that the best solution is a return to the status quo protectorates which allow for independence but stability as well. This is the only way to guarantee this is not an outright annexation and subjugation now and in the future. As for ethnic cleansing, ethnic cleansing is unacceptable under any circumstances and always will be. Trying to justify it is laughable at best, horrifying at worst.

[Voodoo Nova]

OOC: I'd like to say that technically I do not own Saigon because the deal was never completed in the thread. So, we need to either complete the thread or just assume I do not own Saigon because the meeting was not completed. Also, I will edit this later ICly as my response post, so be on the watch for that.

IC: "Novak will release an official response later this evening regarding the PRC's move in to South East Asia."

[Sir Keshav IV]

OOC: Yea, lets finish that thread wherever. It is.

IC: "We aren't justifying anything. We accept that policy was wrong, and rescinded it quite a while ago. But accusing us of Genocide is laughable at most."

[king of cochin]

The Kingdom of Cochin stands by its ally, the People's Republic of China, since we do not perceive them having committed any wrongs or aggression towards the people of Acca Dacca territory. We find it distressing and sad that such blatant misunderstandings and refusal to understandings take place. What is the point of accusing PRC of genocide or ethnic cleansing when they have done no such thing? We also find it laughable that their attempt to maintain credibility in Acca Daccan elections have been twisted into grossly negative connotations by certain entities. We suggest to the PRC that they permit full and free elections, placing no restraint on any ideological parties whatsoever.

We perceive here a policy of diplomatic bullying and a thorough disregard for truth. We believe that PRC has not acted in any way detrimental to the interests of the people of Acca Dacca hence our support to them is unwavering.

To nations like Vietnam, we have just this request: do not forget your roots. You received support from PRC to establish yourself as a sovereign entity, do not stab them in the back in such a shameless fashion.

Do not be knaves and twist the truth.

[Triyun]

Freedom and independence for the peoples of the world does not exist through the mercy of the People's Republic but through the fundamental right of Freedom. Vietnam and every nation in South East Asia deserves freedom. Vietnam is not standing up to anyone by advocating for it.

[Sir Keshav IV]

"And split up Acca Daccan unity. Brilliant! We were given these lands to safeguard them. We were entrusted these. We are giving it freedom to what best we can do. We are not denying anything. If there is such an uproar over banning a party, then the ban shall be repealed. As we said earlier, elections will run under the observation of any country. Vietnam is not advocating anything by calling us immoral and genocidal. That is not advocating freedom. That is name calling. So much so that they are calling me German, something I am not."

[Triyun]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='12 May 2010 - 08:05 PM' timestamp='1273691131' post='2296149']
"And split up Acca Daccan unity. Brilliant! We were given these lands to safeguard them. We were entrusted these. We are giving it freedom to what best we can do. We are not denying anything. If there is such an uproar over banning a party, then the ban shall be repealed. As we said earlier, elections will run under the observation of any country. Vietnam is not advocating anything by calling us immoral and genocidal. That is not advocating freedom. That is name calling. So much so that they are calling me German, something I am not."
[/quote]

He could be forgiven, certainly yours is not a Chinese name. On top of that your argument is inherently conducive to the end of national sovereignty in Asia. Suppose that the PRC or Cochin collapses into anarchy, one annexes the other. Than makes the argument that it would be immoral to break up that nation. You end up with a single Empire presiding over Asia.

[Sir Keshav IV]

"So what your saying, it is okay for Cochin or myself annex their lands but not lands that was given to us not to be a protectorate. The Queen entrusted us with the land to keep it safe and united, not to split it off into various groups. We gave Vietnam freedom because we see no reason in denying any nation the right to exist. We were in the process of annexing the other parts of Acca Dacca for which we officially declared it. The Queen gave "us" the land to keep it united and to control the anarchy in it. By extension she gave us the power to rule over the land."

[Triyun]

Thats not what I am saying at all. I am saying that your argument if land given to you as a protectorate could never been split up, carried it to the logical conclusion you end up with no independent nation in Asia.