Trashcat's Corner: And The Rivers Ran Red

[toto]

A line from my logs.

<astronaut_jones[compton]> internally, I'm as calm and collected as anyone there is

Anyone who wants to see evidence to the contrary of this, look at any post in this thread.

I have a nice long log about how Greenacres wants to take control of TPF to lead it down 'the right path' but its filled with a lot of things that need to be censored.

^^will message it by request.

[BamaBuc]

An amazing read as always. This is by far my favorite CN news show type thing, not only because it's so funny, but because it's so genuine and because you make fun of everyone, not just certain people. It's not an empty one sided piece of propaganda. You speak your mind and poke fun at just about everyone. Keep it up!

I do want to discuss the TOOL peace terms. I don't see what the big deal is. Should we instead have let the alliances we were fighting turn around and attack our friends after they peaced with us? We just weren't going to leave the war without that assurance, and they respected that. The whole point of fighting was to help our friends, and we kept four alliances occupied fighting us instead of our treaty partners, with the exception of Sparta, who was already at war with our PIAT partners in NPO. Signing those terms ensured that those alliances stayed off our treaty partners for the duration, whereas if we'd stayed in, they would eventually have been able to open up new fronts against those treaty partners. I'd also like to note that they were not barred from reentering the conflict, whereas TOOL was. For some reason, people keep missing that and going on about how they surrendered to us. They didn't. It was a mutual peace agreement.

-Bama

[The Corrupt Teacher]

An amazing read as always. This is by far my favorite CN news show type thing, not only because it's so funny, but because it's so genuine and because you make fun of everyone, not just certain people. It's not an empty one sided piece of propaganda. You speak your mind and poke fun at just about everyone. Keep it up!

I do want to discuss the TOOL peace terms. I don't see what the big deal is. Should we instead have let the alliances we were fighting turn around and attack our friends after they peaced with us? We just weren't going to leave the war without that assurance, and they respected that. The whole point of fighting was to help our friends, and we kept four alliances occupied fighting us instead of our treaty partners, with the exception of Sparta, who was already at war with our PIAT partners in NPO. Signing those terms ensured that those alliances stayed off our treaty partners for the duration, whereas if we'd stayed in, they would eventually have been able to open up new fronts against those treaty partners. I'd also like to note that they were not barred from reentering the conflict, whereas TOOL was. For some reason, people keep missing that and going on about how they surrendered to us. They didn't. It was a mutual peace agreement.

-Bama

Yeah thats the point with the way the war was going you should have surrendered not gotten mutual peace. You should have gotten white peace being a non-Hegemony alliance but it should have been a surrender not mutual peace. That the issue people are having with this.

[astronaut jones]

A line from my logs.

Anyone who wants to see evidence to the contrary of this, look at any post in this thread.

I have a nice long log about how Greenacres wants to take control of TPF to lead it down 'the right path' but its filled with a lot of things that need to be censored.

^^will message it by request.

Go for it. How about I just tell them what's in it?

I say $%&@ mhawk, $%&@ slayer, and $%&@ tpf a lot. I did, I meant it, I'm not going to apologize for it. I call you out on your !@#$%^&* for assuming I'm an idiot, you deny it, I don't buy it, circle of life stuff right there.

I also say what I think needs to be done to turn TPF around, which includes dropping all their treaties outside of OPP for 6 months while they get sorted out. I've said the only way TPF can truly get a fresh start is with a complete overhaul and a complete image makeover, only way to do that is to get new friends and drop off the face of the earth for awhile and simply focus on the internal stuff.

I think I also said something to the effect that no one in TPF has the balls or the know how to get it done. I may have even said that mhawk isn't worth !@#$ in this game, and neither is his word. I may have also said that he's just as opportunistic of a !@#$ ball as slayer is.

I may have said a lot more, too. I've got absolutely nothing to hide though.

Also, since I don't trust toto to NOT edit the logs, if you want the full logs of what I said, the instance he's refering to, just hit me up. I'll be glad to provide them for you.

Edited May 7, 2009 by astronaut jones

[BamaBuc]

Yeah thats the point with the way the war was going you should have surrendered not gotten mutual peace. You should have gotten white peace being a non-Hegemony alliance but it should have been a surrender not mutual peace. That the issue people are having with this.

Tbh I don't think we would have even had any problem at all with saying that. You'll have to take that one up with the alliances we fought. But do they not have the right to NOT demand that it be called a surrender? It's not really anyone's decision but theirs. I don't completely understand why people act like Sparta/DT/etc don't have the right to have it be a mutual peace.

-Bama

[toto]

<otot> i know why twist feels so strongly about TPF being a**s ,but not why you are so anti TPF

<astronaut_jones[compton]> because I'm awesome

<otot> I'm sure you are, annd thats why i care about your opinion

<astronaut_jones[compton]> same reason twist is. I started PC, I know what they went through with TPF.. I tried for a long time to help TPF, all of those who left TPF for PC did, but we were ignored because we wouldn't suck slayer's d**k, or wouldn't suck Q's or WUT's.. so our ideas and opinions were ignored while TPF pissed away all the goodwill in the world.

<otot> thats not twist's reason lol

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and then, one day, I saw slayer posting on the OWF in the bus doctrine thread, spreading blatant lies and falsehoods about PC, and I KNEW the truth, so I called him out on it

<otot> twist is angry because slayer singled him out for spying, and used that as an excuse to be asslike to PC

<astronaut_jones[compton]> they singled me out to twist

<astronaut_jones[compton]> same s**t.. twist showed me logs where twist said something like "the only recruiting PC ever did from TPF was green trying to get randomhero" and .. these logs were from march

<astronaut_jones[compton]> mhawk came to me about the same situation when I re-rolled and he knew who I was

<astronaut_jones[compton]> months before then

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and I showed him the entire log

<astronaut_jones[compton]> the entire log is like 5 lines of me asking randomhero if he wanted to START an alliance with me. Before PC was even formed.

<otot> and were you in TPF at the time or one of our allies?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> but mhawk still used that reason, in march, to paint it like PC ever actually did spy/recruit from TPF

<astronaut_jones[compton]> I was in TPF at the time. I asked him "do you wanna start an alliance?" he said "not really" and I said "that's cool" more or less

<astronaut_jones[compton]> I can dig up the logs even.

<otot> that would be hepful, i am looking for the stuff mhawk will need to apologise for when he does after the war

<otot> helpful*

<astronaut_jones[compton]> tell mhawk he can suck my f**king d**k and that'll be enough of an apology

<astronaut_jones[compton]> the apology won't mean s**t

<astronaut_jones[compton]> mhawk has no choice

<astronaut_jones[compton]> he doesn't mean it

<otot> he has a choice lol

<otot> initial talks began more than a week ago

<astronaut_jones[compton]> the only reason he's apologizing is because TPF is f**d and he knows it. If he were truly sorry, 1) he never would have continued to try and get PC rolled, and 2) he would have apologized for that s**t when he took over

<astronaut_jones[compton]> he has no other choice, mhawk can f**k off.

<astronaut_jones[compton]> he's just as opportunistic of a s**tball as slayer is

<otot> TPF is not f**d , and mhawk had the humility to agree to post a public apology after the war, so you have to give him *some* credit for agreeing to swallow his pride

<astronaut_jones[compton]> he gets no credit. He's only apologizing because it's his only out and he knows it. He won't mean a word of it

<astronaut_jones[compton]> mhawk is as slimy a f**king scumbag as slayer is

<otot> how is it his only way out if he is only agreeing to make it AFTER the war?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and since I don't expect anything I say between myself and TPF members to be private, and I fully expect everything I say to TPF members to make it back to mhawk and his cronies of f**king failure, you can tell him I said that

<astronaut_jones[compton]> I think nothing of mhawk

<astronaut_jones[compton]> mhawk isn't worth s**t in this game

<otot> also, can you watch the language? i know slayer and mhawk were gay in dealing with PC, but you should at least use better decriptions of them than 'slimy a f**king scumbag'

<astronaut_jones[compton]> because it's his only way to save face. He had opportunity to apologize, but instead he plotted and planned PC's destruction.. but the tables were turned, and instead TPF is on the receiving end of the beatdown

<astronaut_jones[compton]> so he's trying to do whatever it takes to get out of it looking good

<astronaut_jones[compton]> no, I can't watch the language

<otot> i already told you this stuff about an apology came before

<astronaut_jones[compton]> if you don't like it, not my fault

<otot> you are aware that i am on your side, right?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> oh I know, but you're still sticking up for mhawk

<otot> i made first contact about the apology before mhawk knew anything about it

<astronaut_jones[compton]> mhawk won't mean a single word of his apology

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and the real apology needs to come from slayer

<otot> slayer is leaving

<astronaut_jones[compton]> so?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> does that absolve him of his sins?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> no it does not

<otot> if he is leaving, its going to be near impossible to get an apology, he just doesnt care any more

<astronaut_jones[compton]> well, f**k slayer

<astronaut_jones[compton]> f**k mhawk

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and f**k tpf

<astronaut_jones[compton]> end of story

<astronaut_jones[compton]> simpsons is on anyway

<astronaut_jones[compton]> p.s. TPF needs me as their leader

<otot> and also, an apology is needed from mhawk so we can have future dealings with him. do you want future dealings with someone who wont be there?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> that's really not the point.

<otot> green, if you were the leader we would be at war all the time. it would be fun, but we wouldnt get anything done

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and honestly, I don't know why you're talking to me about this

<otot> yes it is the point

<astronaut_jones[compton]> I have no say in anything

<astronaut_jones[compton]> I'm not even in PC

<otot> im talking to you because you are a secksi former TPFer

<astronaut_jones[compton]> no, see? you WOULDN'T be at war all the time because I actually know what I'm doing. Slayer never let me do anything, so I did what I wanted

<otot> and i care about former secksi TPFers

<astronaut_jones[compton]> internally, I'm as calm and collected as anyone there is

<astronaut_jones[compton]> I know what needs to be done in TPF

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and no one there now is going to do it

<otot> what needs to be done in tpf?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> because they can't see what has to be done

<astronaut_jones[compton]> appointed me leader and you'll find out

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and in 6 months time I guarantee TPF will be bigger and stronger than you could have imagined

<otot> it didnt work for mccain when he said he knew how to cathc osama, and all people had to do was appoint him to find out

<otot> catch*

<otot> ctb posted in that senes thread in support of senes and referencing my talks with him and mhawk

<astronaut_jones[compton]> first thing that needs to be done is TPF needs to isolate itself for 6 months. All treaties disolved outside of OPP.

<astronaut_jones[compton]> TPF needs to forget about the world stage

<astronaut_jones[compton]> atleast until things get sorted out

<otot> imo, ignoring everyone, friends and foes, would be a very near sighted move

<astronaut_jones[compton]> would you shut the f**k up and let me finish?

<otot> and by near sighted i mean blind

<astronaut_jones[compton]> Second, all current government are either removed/demoted/booted unless they can be trusted. Mhawk, anyone from elysium? gone. Period. The government would be myself and a contingent from PC for one month. During that month, everyone would be considered for a position

<astronaut_jones[compton]> anyone who steps up would get a job

<otot> poor leadership would kill us, and creating a power vaccume would kill us more

<astronaut_jones[compton]> No more warrior culture.. smart, sensible approach to the game would be implemented. Community would be built, focusing on internal growth and nation growth.

<astronaut_jones[compton]> 6 months removed from the world stage is needed.. TPF needs a new identity

<otot> we are not becoming the GPA

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and it needs to remove itself from the world stage in order to find it

<astronaut_jones[compton]> anyway, you made me miss 10 minutes of the simpsons

<otot> that show has been going downhill for the last 10 years

<astronaut_jones[compton]> no, you're under the assumption that I'm an idiot and a loose cannon

<otot> what?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> you're not going to go downhill. You don't give me credit for what I'm capable of

<otot> i dont think you are an idiot

<otot> if i thought that i wouldnt care what you think

<astronaut_jones[compton]> then why did you just say poor leadership would kill you?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> look, you and the rest of TPF obviously think I don't know what I'm doing, fine.

<astronaut_jones[compton]> whatever

<otot> i never said you would be the poor leadership

<astronaut_jones[compton]> but who over there actually knows what they're doing, or how to get TPF out of that mess? TPF is in the mess it's in because it abused it's power on the world stage

<otot> i said if we were to remove all our leaders then we would not have good leadership, especially if it went on first come, first serve

<astronaut_jones[compton]> no one is going to join TPF unless it gets a complete image overhaul

<astronaut_jones[compton]> you're not going to get a complete image overhaul unless you remove yourself from the world stage

<astronaut_jones[compton]> 6 months of just OPP Treaties would do TPF a lot of good

<otot> why dont you create your own alliance with your own ideals?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and I said the leaders would be removed FOR A MONTH, with myself and PC overseeing things until people stepped up

<astronaut_jones[compton]> what do you think PC is?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> look, again

<astronaut_jones[compton]> you obviously think I'm an idiot and that I don't know what I'm doing

<otot> come back in 6 months with the #1 alliance, then i will give you €5,000 in real life

<astronaut_jones[compton]> but TPF won't survive, because NO ONE is going to join it, because the name has been tainted.

<astronaut_jones[compton]> TPF needs a new identity. It needs new leadership. It needs new friends.

<otot> no, i dont think the name has been tainted. if we were as tainted as you claim, NSO would not like us

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and that's all I'm going to say to you about it, because you obviously think I'm stupid and I don't take kindly to people who treat me like I'm an idiot.

<astronaut_jones[compton]> goodbye toto, thanks for the money.

<otot> i dont think you are stupid, are you ignoring the fact that i dont care about what stupid people say and would just flat out ignore them rather than read and reply?

<otot> <astronaut_jones[compton]> I can dig up the logs even.

<otot> i still would like to see those logs

<astronaut_jones[compton]> I'm sure you would.

<otot> well, it would add strength to your side

<astronaut_jones[compton]> uh huh

<otot> so, are you going to post it or did you lie about its existence

<astronaut_jones[compton]> right, I lied about it's existence.. that's why mhawk has seen it and twisted has seen it and I've pasted it into #poisonclan before

<astronaut_jones[compton]> f**k off, toto

<otot> but i want to see it

<astronaut_jones[compton]> and I'm sure you do. The only thing that ever gets me truly mad though, is when people underestimate me to the point where they treat me as though I'm stupid. Or they doubt what I can do because they think I don't know what I'm doing. Happened in CDS. Happened a few times in TPF. And you're doing it now, too.

<astronaut_jones[compton]> so I don't really care what you want to see

<astronaut_jones[compton]> go as twist

<otot> back from asking twist, he confirmed the logs

<otot> and why do you think i think you are stupid?

<astronaut_jones[compton]> because you do.

<otot> no, i do not

<astronaut_jones[compton]> okay

<otot> i dont care what stupid people think, because they dont for the most par

<otot> t

<astronaut_jones[compton]> okay.

and this short log just there

<juelz_santana> if you're gonna try and run game on someone, make sure it's someone who's actually got something to hide.

<juelz_santana> I don't.

<juelz_santana> AND MY NAME IS JUELZ SANTANA NOW, B**HES!

<toto> w/e green, you do know viceroyship is against the rules now right?

<juelz_santana> who said I'd be a viceroy?

<toto> you did

<juelz_santana> then I retract that and say I'll simply run it and love it and pet it like it's my own

<juelz_santana> also, since I don't trust you to not edit the logs

<juelz_santana> I've offered everyone who wants them to come to me to get them instead

<juelz_santana> AINT GOT A DAMN THING TO HIDE

<toto> interesting

<juelz_santana> don't trust anyone in TPF right now to not edit !@#$

<juelz_santana> and I know what I said

<juelz_santana> I don't apologize for anything in there.

<juelz_santana> good try though

<juelz_santana> I must admit, probably would have been safer to sit on those logs for awhile though, since after the war was over I was gonna settle down and actually play the game again. Bringing those out in a few months would have been better

<juelz_santana> you'll learn though

<juelz_santana> I do thank you for the money though

<juelz_santana> after the war, if I feel like it, maybe I'll send you tech.

These are the logs, only editing it censorship of certain words.

edit: some of the log was outside the quote.

Edited May 7, 2009 by toto

[Stumpy Jung Il]

An amazing read as always. This is by far my favorite CN news show type thing, not only because it's so funny, but because it's so genuine and because you make fun of everyone, not just certain people. It's not an empty one sided piece of propaganda. You speak your mind and poke fun at just about everyone. Keep it up!

I do want to discuss the TOOL peace terms. I don't see what the big deal is. Should we instead have let the alliances we were fighting turn around and attack our friends after they peaced with us? We just weren't going to leave the war without that assurance, and they respected that. The whole point of fighting was to help our friends, and we kept four alliances occupied fighting us instead of our treaty partners, with the exception of Sparta, who was already at war with our PIAT partners in NPO. Signing those terms ensured that those alliances stayed off our treaty partners for the duration, whereas if we'd stayed in, they would eventually have been able to open up new fronts against those treaty partners. I'd also like to note that they were not barred from reentering the conflict, whereas TOOL was. For some reason, people keep missing that and going on about how they surrendered to us. They didn't. It was a mutual peace agreement.

-Bama

Its fair that you wanted to protect your friends. My point is that our allies should have helped us fight because we are still at war with your friends. You did the right thing. They pulled out of multiple fronts that their allies are fighting in for apparently no reason considering they were the ones who won and wrote the terms.

[astronaut jones]

There ya go! I'm not sure if that's the whole log, but hey, I'll double check to let ya know. I already summarized it for people though if they don't want to read all of that.

[BamaBuc]

Its fair that you wanted to protect your friends. My point is that our allies should have helped us fight because we are still at war with your friends. You did the right thing. They pulled out of multiple fronts that their allies are fighting in for apparently no reason considering they were the ones who won and wrote the terms.

Incorrect. They did not pull out of any fronts, as a matter of fact. Aside from DT-TPF (which had only one war, and it had expired), no wars were ended except those involving us and FnKa. None of the alliances we made peace with were fighting any of our treaty partners at that point, except for Sparta-NPO, which was an exception to the terms since it was already underway. In other words, nobody we were fighting pulled out of any fronts aside from the TOOL-FnKa front.

-Bama

[Haflinger]

Yeah thats the point with the way the war was going you should have surrendered not gotten mutual peace. You should have gotten white peace being a non-Hegemony alliance but it should have been a surrender not mutual peace. That the issue people are having with this.

Why?

I wasn't there for the TOOL talks (obviously) but Invicta set terms along similar lines. It wasn't in the context of us going to them and asking to surrender. We were approached and asked to surrender.

We counteroffered with the deal that was accepted. If it hadn't been accepted, we would still have been at war. We were still an effective fighting force when we left, and I suspect TOOL was as well. So the only honourable reasonable to surrender would be if we could still do something for our allies without being in the war.

You keep on fighting until doing so doesn't help your friends anymore - unless you can help your friends without fighting. Then you rely on Salvor Hardin.

Its fair that you wanted to protect your friends. My point is that our allies should have helped us fight because we are still at war with your friends. You did the right thing. They pulled out of multiple fronts that their allies are fighting in for apparently no reason considering they were the ones who won and wrote the terms.

No, that's not what TOOL did.

That's what Invicta did, except not multiple fronts. Our peace terms included Orion peacing NPO. TOOL's terms just contained restrictions on the alliances they were at war with from opening up new fronts.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

That's what Invicta did, except not multiple fronts. Our peace terms included Orion peacing NPO. TOOL's terms just contained restrictions on the alliances they were at war with from opening up new fronts.

Which limits them from helping allies later in the war... I dont see why theyd agree to such exemptions when they won the war.

[BamaBuc]

Which limits them from helping allies later in the war... I dont see why theyd agree to such exemptions when they won the war.

In fairness to them, their allies seem to be doing okay on their own. Plus, they can still re-enter the war. AO hit Valhalla yesterday, I believe.

-Bama

[Stumpy Jung Il]

In fairness to them, their allies seem to be doing okay on their own. Plus, they can still re-enter the war. AO hit Valhalla yesterday, I believe.

-Bama

While thats fair, I still just dont see it as being a wise move, especially since it wasnt really necessary.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Stumpy Jung Il

[Haflinger]

Which limits them from helping allies later in the war... I dont see why theyd agree to such exemptions when they won the war.

That's between them and TOOL, right?

As long as TOOL still had the ability to impede their war effort, they had some bargaining power. As did we; both of us used the bargaining power we had given the situation we were in.

OOC: Unconditional surrenders are incredibly rare in the real world. Usually they are the consequence of one side getting so completely pulverized that they can no longer mount any kind of military effort at all. Most wars end with some kind of agreement that gives both sides some concessions. The historical tendency in CN to fight until an unconditional surrender is the only way out is one of the craziest aspects of the way people fight wars here, especially since most CN wars end well before one side is completely ZIed.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

That's between them and TOOL, right?

As long as TOOL still had the ability to impede their war effort, they had some bargaining power. As did we; both of us used the bargaining power we had given the situation we were in.

OOC: Unconditional surrenders are incredibly rare in the real world. Usually they are the consequence of one side getting so completely pulverized that they can no longer mount any kind of military effort at all. Most wars end with some kind of agreement that gives both sides some concessions. The historical tendency in CN to fight until an unconditional surrender is the only way out is one of the craziest aspects of the way people fight wars here, especially since most CN wars end well before one side is completely ZIed.

Im agreeing with you. I said TOOL showed great skill in bargaining that down. Also, it is between them, I never said other wise. OOC: More importantly, CN is nothing like the real world in most ways. However, Im gonna avoid this conversation cause most people will never shut up when it starts

[mhawk]

Go for it. How about I just tell them what's in it?

I say $%&@ mhawk, $%&@ slayer, and $%&@ tpf a lot. I did, I meant it, I'm not going to apologize for it. I call you out on your !@#$%^&* for assuming I'm an idiot, you deny it, I don't buy it, circle of life stuff right there.

I also say what I think needs to be done to turn TPF around, which includes dropping all their treaties outside of OPP for 6 months while they get sorted out. I've said the only way TPF can truly get a fresh start is with a complete overhaul and a complete image makeover, only way to do that is to get new friends and drop off the face of the earth for awhile and simply focus on the internal stuff.

I think I also said something to the effect that no one in TPF has the balls or the know how to get it done. I may have even said that mhawk isn't worth !@#$ in this game, and neither is his word. I may have also said that he's just as opportunistic of a !@#$ ball as slayer is.

I may have said a lot more, too. I've got absolutely nothing to hide though.

Also, since I don't trust toto to NOT edit the logs, if you want the full logs of what I said, the instance he's refering to, just hit me up. I'll be glad to provide them for you.

For some reason I imagine your personal version of TPF would result in something resembling /b/ + a random number generator.

[Chickenzilla]

This thread has everything Log dumps, Stumpy, bama, Stumpy, Greenacres, Stumpy, and even some Archon love. I notice a lack of trading cards

[Jipps]

This thread has everything Log dumps, Stumpy, bama, Stumpy, Greenacres, Stumpy, and even some Archon love. I notice a lack of trading cards

I know, I was disappointed in the lack of trading cards.

Otherwise a good read.

Edited May 8, 2009 by Jipps

[Salmia]

Im agreeing with you. I said TOOL showed great skill in bargaining that down. Also, it is between them, I never said other wise. OOC: More importantly, CN is nothing like the real world in most ways. However, Im gonna avoid this conversation cause most people will never shut up when it starts

They did not pull out of any fronts other than DT-Sparta. TOOL was only guaranteeing the safety of our allies at least so we wouldn't be drawn back into war. Because of the whole not being able to enter the conflict again term, we wanted to make sure that our allies would not be hit or it wouldn't be worth the agreement. So we did what we could and they still can hit people. So they have not abandoned their allies and TOOL has protected their own. I see it as a win- win, we could've stated it as a surrender but they were the ones who termed it that way. TOOL would've kept on fighting if necessary. I think the way it was worded just made it seem like they ceded more than they did.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

This thread has everything Log dumps, Stumpy, bama, Stumpy, Greenacres, Stumpy, and even some Archon love. I notice a lack of trading cards

Blame rsox. Son of a !@#$%* didnt do his job.

[Adrian LaCroix]

While thats fair, I still just dont see it as being a wise move, especially since it wasnt really necessary.

I can't speak for anyone's reasoning but my own, but The Brigade gave up nothing with those terms. The only alliances we have treaties with that contain defense clauses on the Karma side that were fighting at the time are Sparta and VE. Sparta and VE were both fighting NPO, so yes, we agreed not to go in against them. Our allies stated that they didn't need our help, and I believed them. God knows NPO has enough alliances and NS on top of it without us in the mix.

[Chinatownbus]

I thank you and that is really the best we could hope for in response. Now all that aside I'm fairly sure based on the other side arguments this will be a crazy thread full of drama. I hope to step out and we can work privately on this. Any tpf guys please remain out of any ensuing drama here.

To be honest, it would probably also help things if you unbanned me from your channel.

[rsoxbronco1]

Blame rsox. Son of a !@#$%* didnt do his job.

I'm such a tortured artist.

(OOC: Finals and such this week.)

[mhawk]

To be honest, it would probably also help things if you unbanned me from your channel.

done.

[Orkules]

An amazing read as always. This is by far my favorite CN news show type thing, not only because it's so funny, but because it's so genuine and because you make fun of everyone, not just certain people. It's not an empty one sided piece of propaganda. You speak your mind and poke fun at just about everyone. Keep it up!

I do want to discuss the TOOL peace terms. I don't see what the big deal is. Should we instead have let the alliances we were fighting turn around and attack our friends after they peaced with us? We just weren't going to leave the war without that assurance, and they respected that. The whole point of fighting was to help our friends, and we kept four alliances occupied fighting us instead of our treaty partners, with the exception of Sparta, who was already at war with our PIAT partners in NPO. Signing those terms ensured that those alliances stayed off our treaty partners for the duration, whereas if we'd stayed in, they would eventually have been able to open up new fronts against those treaty partners. I'd also like to note that they were not barred from reentering the conflict, whereas TOOL was. For some reason, people keep missing that and going on about how they surrendered to us. They didn't. It was a mutual peace agreement.

-Bama

His point was that you were in no position to gain such a huge concession from our allies for your withdrawal. No offense, but TOOL simply isn't that important. You guys were not such a major player and the war was not so far in that it was worth it to throw away those alliances just to get you out. Had you been IRON's size, that would be one thing. But you aren't.

I understand you wanting to help your friends. They should want to help theirs too. And it does not help us to withdraw completely from the conflict (exception being Sparta) just to get TOOL out of this war. It does little good and hurts us a lot more. You were losing, you were going to keep losing and they should have just let you sit for a bit and only accepted full on white peace.