Trashcat's Corner: And The Rivers Ran Red

[Stumpy Jung Il]

Vanguard Propaganda King Presents:

(Image by SkyGreenChick of TOP)

Well my friends its been an exciting week and a lot has happened. The war escalated, billions died, and !@#$ got real. So, without any more introduction, Vanguard, and I, invite you to read “Trashcat’s Corner”:

Disclaimer: This topic does not include righteousness, long speeches, Archon, or a better world, all Karma members should avoid reading at all costs… Oh wait, there goes all my readers. $%&@.

Peace, Love, and Harmony… Don’t Exist in CN

Well, we shall start it off big this week by talking about the war. That’s right, the war. The nuclear fiasco, the dick measuring contest, the giant holocaust, whatever you want to call it, it rages on. The war FINALLY escalated this week when the Shame Brigade decided to enter the war despite their mass cancellations (see: IRON, Valhalla, GGA, etc.) If you have forgotten, these alliances cancelled their MADPs when the war started claiming they were no longer in love with Pacifica. However, after massive public outcry and trolling, they decided to honor their treaties and enter the war anyway. Now, many of these alliances claim that they had always planned to enter the war (despite mhawk leaving because he didn’t want to break a treaty but well ignore that) and that letting NPO lose 2 million NS due to getting attacked by itself for a few days was all part of their master plan. Ok, guys, seriously, we arnt stupid. You guys backed out, realized that you had made a mistake, and manned up. Stop bull ^%$&&^%$ the bull %^&**^%$ and just admit that you $%&@ed up. We all know you cancelled those treaties out of an initial avoidance of the conflict, but like MCXA showed, they regretted their decision and changed their minds. Why cant you guys just admit that this is the way it happened? I just don’t get what kind of pride prevents you form acknowledging the obvious.

Anyway, the war did in fact finally start and we saw some admirable attacks and failures on both sides. To be honest, I was shocked to see Legion pull off one of the biggest blitzs on the Hegemony’s side as well as MCXA. I really expected to see both of you fall flat, so kudos to you. The war itself has grown to included just about every alliance in the game it would seen and it seems that every topic has been a declaration of war of some sorts these days. We’ve seen entrance from players like TOP, Gramlins, MK, IRON, RoK, and many more, making several lose their sanctions and some lose nearly half their alliances Nation Strength. We also witnessed masterful policies by alliances like Vanguard and RoK who seem to view declaring on half the known world as being the perfect tactic. Kudos to you, getting those wars while their hot. Id also like to give a nod to BAPS who went balls deep this week going nuclear on TOP. BAPS, not use nukes? Laughable at best. The war continues to rage on with nukes being launched on all sides and surrenders coming in hot. I am eager to see the conflict to continue, its just good times.

(Image by Jonathan Brookbank)

I am also pleased to announce that the war has finally been named by popular vote as the "Karma War." While this name is certainly fitting considering the sides and the reasoning behind the coalitions, I still feel like the "Stern Talking to War" would have been a much grander name, as well as funnier. But I guess I cant always win. WHATEVER, good choice to those who voted for the winner.

MCXA and Echelon, Putting the Man in Man Up

Shocking news from both Echelon and MCXA this week as they were the first ones to man up and rally support for NPO’s defense. Many of NPO’s allies bailed on them recently and it was these two alliances who stood up to the plate both publicly and privately and rallied support for entering the conflict. Its good to see some balls and sense remain in CN on both sides, and it was good to see some honor in the side that came so close to backing out of their obligations in this war. I am pleased to see that leaders like Dr. Fresh still play this game, and understand what needs to be done. You have certainly gained my respect with your actions, and I hope many others as well. I, for one, certainly welcome some honor back into my CN, it has been away for far too long.

Peace Terms Are So Yesterday!

White peace is the order of today as Karma seems to be giving it across the board. Several periphery alliances have surrendered already from the Hegemony side of the web including big names like NATO, OG, Legion, and several others. All but one thread I saw gave the alliances white peace, and the only other term Ive seen were tech deals, so it was paid for anyway. After a nuclear war, some aid isn’t all that bad but of course the same people who inforced viceroy’s and forced tech payments came out in force screaming, “YOU ARE BECOMING THE MONSTERS YOU FIGHT!!!!111!!” I think this is ironic because you are calling yourselves monsters… humorous indeed. I, for one, am glad to see alliances gaining white peace, at least those that are merely honoring their treaties. However, do not expect me to feel this way for the ones whos crimes we are punishing. I do not feel the need for all alliances to get white peace and I’d like to make that clear now. However, I am also not gonna be the one deciding that. I just don’t feel that alliances like Pacifica deserve white peace after the wars/terms/etc. that they have given/committed themselves. We shall see what kind of peace they receive in the future.

(Image by Sandwich Controversy)

NPO: So Easy FAN Could Do It!

Hypocrisy continues to run fierce this week as NPO becomes everything they worked so hard to mock. They have taken to hiding in peace mode, turtling, and sitting, the exact same things they made fun of FAN for. To quote Moo Cows, “You cant surrender if you haven’t fought the war,” or something like that. The fact is, NPO is hiding in peace mode just like FAN did and yet they were so fervent about mocking FAN and Vox when they did it. Its almost… hilarious. They also proved to FAN that they WERENT able to achieve the same success FAN did in a 1 sided nuclear war as NPO has already shed some 9 million NS already and is dropping at a rate of about 600k a day. For all the smack talk you guys gave to FAN about how they weren’t that good, they sure seem to be a lot better now. A tip of the hat to you NPO!

(Image by Sethly of Sparta)

Oh GGA! You Kill Me!

GGA proved that they were amazing this week with their undeniable failures as a warring alliance. Not only did they find half of their alliance in anarchy in just about 1 day, but they also some how had a nation with 22,000 infra and a warchest of 1 million dollars. Now, Im baffled, so someone explain to me how you can achieve that. That’s not even 1 days worth of collections. I just don’t understand. GGA also achieved the most damage an alliance has taken early on, beating IRON an alliance with 3 times the members and size. That’s right, they got hammered harder then an alliance getting attacked by Gramlins and co., a feat that you have to try to achieve. Congrats to you GGA, you earned it!

(Image by ikMark)

IRON Drops Like A Rock While TPF Fights The World

Two pieces of war information: IRON records the quickest and worst losses of the war, falling into 4th place this week while TPF fights half the known world and just about every alliance in the Karma side. Neither of these are really important but both of them amused me. Way to go IRON, those nukes are doing you proud, and way to go TPF, now you know how TDSM8 felt all those countless times. Keep it up fellas, good to see you are enjoying the war.

(Image by Airikr)

War Propaganda at Its Finest

While I include some pieces of propaganda in this thread there is more all over the place (see here: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...amp;start=1000). I can most definitely claim that this war has seen some of the best propaganda to date and MK team has come out in force as the leader. Seriously, I dont even know where to start, this stuff is hilarious. The sigs and pictures from both sides are priceless and they have really captured the mood of this conflict. Tip of my hat to all you artists out there, you continue to make Planet Bob at least some what bareable.

Does This Mean Old Guard Is A Dragon?

The Order of the Black Rose showed an impressive blitz in their first military skirmish this week when they declared on Old Guard in defense of the Greenland Republic. The long time independent alliance had one of the most impressive blitzes of the Karma side for their size and seemed to do a good job militarily. Id like to give a tip of my hat to OBR for their impressive attack and show of valor, you guys never cease to impress me with your stature and your commitment to what you see as right.

(Image by Katsumi)

Jesus Walks… Or Something Like That

Well, self righteousness took a new name this week with the Karma coalition forming as the new Walford’s of CN. Seriously, I could not stop laughing at all the messiahs that have apparently appeared in CN since Karma started winning. Just about everyone on the Karma side is now the most self righteous player ever, talking about not becoming the evil that we are facing or turning towards the dark side, or whatever. I find it funny that most of these people forget that they are fighting a war, and if they want to avoid the mistakes of the past they need to remember that. Self righteousness got NPO white peace 3 years ago and they came back and buried all the people who were against them. Self righteousness made them forget that to change the world, you must take control of the world and that got them killed. So Karma, turn down the hypocrisy for five seconds and win the war. Only then should you get in a circle and talk about how great you all are. Just sayin.

(Image by D34th)

Vox and FAN, Just One Step Closer

Both Vox and FAN found more peace from several warring alliances this week, including ODN, Valhalla, and NATO, all of which gave them white peace. I am pleased to see this move taken by all these alliances and I am hoping to see FAN become a powerful player once again now that they have a chance to rebuild. Both of you have been at war longer then you can probably remember, and you both deserve some peace. Good luck to your alliances, you are almost free.

(Image by Electron Sponge)

Poison Clan Finds a Loop Hole

Poison Clan shocked the world this week when they declared war on TPF, breeching their Non-Aggression Pact. They also went about setting a precedent by doing so, claiming that the clause that essentially read “If either side breaks this treaty it is considered null and void” meant that by breaking the treaty they were exempt from the grace period. Now, this is a terribly worded treaty, and in many ways TPF brought this upon themselves by not being intelligent in their wording, but it also goes to show how useless NAPs are these days. No one honors the words of these treaties and because of this lack of commitment they will never serve as anything more then a piece of paper. While I did chuckle at the announcement, I cant really hail PC for the move because in most ways it was still a breech of a binding document. However, I will not argue this here, for it was done so by the countless trolls in the thread.

Its Not a Good Week for Blocs

Continuum had another bad week the remaining alliances sit in a war that seems to be consuming the world. Just about every alliance remaining in the bloc has lost anywhere from a third to half their NS in this war and many are still dropping at massive amounts every update. NATO also exited the bloc this week citing it as a time to move on. They did this soon after gaining peace which makes me wonder if that was one of the conditions for the white peace they were granted. I am still skeptical since OG has yet to leave either, so we will continue to look on and wait. The Trident bloc also disbanded this week as all alliances claimed that they were no longer close enough to warrant such a treaty. However, Fark and MHA soon treatied after the blocs disbandment, so the feeling seems to have been broken over the split during the war. Good luck to all those involved, I know how hard it must be for you.

(Image by Nintenderek)

GPA Shocks the World!

The Green Protection Agency made a shocking play this week when they declared neutrality in the current conflict. I, for one, never saw it coming and was shocked to see GPA abandon their allies… oh wait.

I Didn’t Realize TOOL Was Worth So Much

TOOL made headlines this week when they exited the war with the most surprising surrender term of the entire conflict. By exiting the war, they pulled some 5 Karma alliances, including our largest alliance, off of their targets and out of the war. Sparta was pulled off all alliances but NPO, a move that shocked all those and baffled many. Why did these alliances feel TOOL was worth such a powerful hit to Karma? I, for one, don’t understand the move at all and felt kind of hurt to see. I don’t really know why Sparta would agree to that and not just a white peace that still left them open to help their comrades across the board. Some claim that Sparta didn’t know what the terms were exactly and are outraged, but that would be even worse because that would mean they didn’t even read the terms they were signing. I am eager to gain more knowledge on the situation in the future, but kudos for TOOL for possibly gaining the most powerful victory for your side of the conflict.

TOP vs. Purple

The Order of the Paradox made it its goal to declare on just about all of Purple this week as it declared on several medium and small sized alliances this week, marking its entrance into the conflict. It keeps insisting that its not on Karma’s side, claiming it is merely a different front that is bashing on the exact same alliances that Karma is bashing on. To be honest, the whole hair splitting is getting old and it’d be nice if people just shut up and didn’t try to make the distinction. It doesn’t REALLY matter all that much because people are just gonna ignore you and claim you are on our side anyway. I know I will. Either way, will TOP crush all of purple? Not if BAPS has something to say about it. Tune in next week for more exiting adventures and harrowing tales.

(Image by Xiphosis)

Nothing Beats the Smell of Nuclear Holocaust in the Morning

Nuclear launches reached a record high during the current war raising the Global Radiation level to a shocking 41.93 and dooming all of Planet Bob’s environments to nothing but ash and six legged squirrels. I am pleased to see such death and destruction as it marks the most violent and horrific war in Planet Bob’s history, something I can proudly claim I helped plan. Planet Bob also reached its 4 billion soldier casualty during the war, meaning that 4 billion soldiers have died in combat since the game started counting. A very astonishing feat if I do say so myself. Good job everyone, you are all the bringers of destruction on a scale that this world has never known!

(Image by Canehda)

Bandwagoning Has a New Definition

Ok, so I want to settle this now and forever, what is bandwagoning? I was always under the impression that bandwagoning was when you declared in an opportunist fashion without treaty obligations. However, people have started claiming that anyone who didn’t declare on the first set of wars is now a bandwagonner. I just assumed that keeping people in reserves was good tactics but I was apparently wrong. I guess that shows me what I know. Silly me and my military tactics, nothing but cowardly antics and what not. Seriously guys, grow up. Its not bandwagoning just because WE are doing it and not YOU. Just cause its hurting you doesnt mean its wrong.

(Image by D34th)

Oh God, Who Fed Them After Midnight?

Gramlins made the news this week by announcing “The Hive,” or what is essentially a prep school for nations that want to join Gramlins but don’t meet their rigid requirements for entrance. What does this mean exactly? Well it means that Gramlins is now taking anyone who wishes to apply and wants to eventually move up to be In the Gramlins alliance. I welcome this move and eagerly wait to see how much this brings into their great alliance and how much they will grow because of it. Good luck Gramlins, I hope to see you grow in the near future.

TF! Reforms

TotalFarkistan! reformed this week, a move I cant entirely agree with. While I understand that everyone is entitled to enjoy this game, I just don’t feel like slapping Fark in the face, again, is such a pleasant move. The fact is, the original TF! Was a break off group of Fark that didn’t want to fight the war with their friends and when it merged to form TPF that’s where it should have ended. However, reforming the alliance once again is just kind of slapping the devoted Fark members in the face again after what they’ve been through, and that’s something I just cant get on board with. However, we shall see how Fark takes it and go from there, in the end it is their call. I just know I wouldn’t appreciate it all that much.

TAKKA TAKKA TAKKA

Opethian came to the rescue this week by declaring on GGA in an epic onslaught of destruction. In his great wave of victory, PPF saved the Karma side and defeated the GGA forces on all fronts with his shark piloted planes. He is a hero to us all and never forget: TAKKA TAKKA TAKKA.

Too Many Threads

Ok, Id just like to close by telling everyone to stop making the “What if?” and quasi-intellectual analysis of Karma threads. Instead of posting what you think, go read the hundreds of others posted every second that have just about every thought on the subject ever and shut up. Seriously, we don’t need more of these.

Well that’s it for Trashcat’s Corner, stay tuned for an interview with mhawk in the second post and tune in next week for another issue. Thanks for reading, as always I will leave you with the shout outs of the week.

(Image by Jonathan Brookbank)

Joke of the Week goes to…

Jack Diorno! http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=56763 was one of the finest pieces of satire I have ever read in this game. Well played sir.

Topic of the Week goes to…

Margrave! The “Justice for Traitors” thread (see: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=56746) was a decent read with a decent discussion.

Player of the Week goes to…

Opethian! Your threads are always entertaining, especially your declarations of war.

Goodbye of the Week goes to…

Slayer! Ill miss you old friend, though Im sure you will return once more.

Poster of the Week goes to…

Archon! You’ve been busy this week making those semi-intelligent posts. MAKING ME PROUD AND STUFF.

(Image greatmagnus)

Best Move of the Week goes to…

OOC: Mod Staff! For warning people for saying Posting this will get me warned. only! Thanks for squashing that annoyance!

(Image by rsoxbronco)

Best Declaration of War goes to…

MCXA/Echelon! Way to stand up fellas.

Alliance of the Week goes to…

Vox Populi! Good luck getting peace guys, its about time.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Stumpy Jung Il

[Stumpy Jung Il]

Note: All interviewees are informed that no content will be edited from the interview. All content is unchanged in any way.

[11:05pm] Stumpy: This is Stumpy signing in with "Trashcat's Corner." Today we are interviewing mhawk, the Overlord of TPF, the Roller of Hard Sixes, and a combatant in the current war. Mhawk, I hope you are doing ok, lets start with some of your history. Can we get a brief summary of the life of mhawk?

[11:09pm] mhawk: Well I was recruited to the game by FAN from Berettaforum.net, however I was pretty lazy and didn't look up how to change from none to an AA. When GWII started I figured I should join an alliance and figured since my nation(school colors) are purple I'd find a purple alliance. This resulted in joining legion.

[11:12pm] mhawk: I was there through GWIII, I helped fight some rogues off legion during the surrender terms, but decided not to disarm at the conclusion of those wars (hey rdm and uzi). I made an irc channel about fighting on and not surrendering so I typed in #molonlabe, however this channel was already taken by a great group of people from ml. I ended up joining their alliance and getting hit by NPO for a few

[11:12pm] mhawk: days on orders from Rebel virginia, however I was let off and went on to serve at ML in gov for quite awhile

[11:15pm] mhawk: Eventually I ended up at forming my own alliance after legion surrendered in Nov. I gained a protectorate from ML's only ally at the time, Valhalla and set off making Elysium. Within the first two weeks of our creation, we ended up in a large war with BAPS. We went on and did quite a bit of smaller wars and worked heavily on purple unity.

[11:15pm] mhawk: I was approached by chefjoe a few times that slayer was looking for a replacement, but felt we had a good thing going and kept up on our goal of unifying purple.

[11:16pm] mhawk: During the polar war however slayer came to me describing a much more desperate situation inside tpf and having accomplished our goals on purple and the war, we decided as a group to join into TPF and see if we could add our own to that group.

[11:17pm] mhawk: Thats where I've been since.

[11:18pm] Stumpy: A rich history to say the least. It is intriguing to see how closely our histories interact, considering my alliance was just 3 weeks old before we ended up in the BAPS war ourselves. That being said, looking back at what you've just typed, the wars you've seen, the history you've created, do you have any regrets? Is there a moment in your history that you wish you could go back and change?

[11:21pm] mhawk: I do miss molon labe. Infact I suspect if ayrrie knew her guns alittle better, the baps war and much of the ensuing wars/team changes wouldn't have occured.

[11:23pm] Stumpy: So are you saying you regret the way those things occurred? These wars and changes? Or just that they could have been different? Also, as a follow up, what is your greatest achievement? The one moment that you wouldn't change for anything

[11:28pm] mhawk: Oh I don't regret the wars, certainly meeting moshea and those guys has been one of the best experiences I've had, and makes being a leader worth it. The moment I wouldn't change is when we finally got Poseidon posted. That took an incredible amount of work on a goal most thought was impossible.

[11:29pm] Stumpy: It did seem insurmountable, getting Legion and Valhalla in the same bloc. I think everyone was impressed by how Unity formed on a color many viewed as forever broken from the noWedge years.

[11:30pm] Stumpy: On that note, many view you as one of the main players in taking down noWedge, how do you feel about your work in the coup? Do you think you played an influential role?

[11:35pm] mhawk: Elysium stood ready to attack noWedge, knowing full well the consequences of making such a move. However the actual removal was via legal means of the valhalla norns. I would say the credit for a "coup" goes to valhalla, we just got lucky we didnt get zi'ed for our part. Elysium did however eventually take nW out militarily after he was removed from Valhalla.

[11:36pm] Stumpy: That last part is something Id be very proud of, and I am aware of how hard chefjoe worked to remove him, a move most everyone is thankful for.

[11:37pm] Stumpy: Im gonna move this a bit lighter now. As a usual question I have to ask: Who are you favorite and least favorite posters on both "sides"? You can pick several for each category.

[11:37pm] mhawk: Sides... we change sides so often these days.

[11:38pm] Stumpy: It is quite obnoxious, hints the quotations. Just pick according to how you see things

[11:39pm] mhawk: I'd have to say ninetenderek is one of the worst on any side. I did nothing but try to help that guy, including helping mediate an a rl aquintance of his stalking him in the game. Something happened somewhere and he flipped out and decided myself and any alliance I've been apart of has betrayed him on some very deep level.

[11:41pm] Stumpy: You arnt the only one whos told me that... oddly enough.

[11:43pm] mhawk: I'd say grub has been one of the most level headed posters recently, often with long diatribes that are well defended.

[11:44pm] Stumpy: I use to think that walls of text were the most accurate and liked posters, then I started seeing Karma people post more... started to rethink that evaluation. Archon will always hold a spot in my heart though, when it comes to walls of texts.

[11:47pm] mhawk: Well most the time that holds true because walls of text often contain arguments, as opposed to one liners with no back up.

[11:47pm] mhawk: When I tell someone what I was thinking and they reply "no you weren't coward"

[11:47pm] mhawk: there is little room to communicate anything besides a "no u" style response.

[11:48pm] Stumpy: Well, you know how CN loves its "no u" arguments.

[11:48pm] Stumpy: Ok, Im gonna move on here.

[11:49pm] mhawk: this is your chance, go for the hard questions, you know you want to.

[11:49pm] Stumpy: You are the first person I have interviewed who had seen his card by the time of the interview. How do you feel about getting your own card? Were you amused? Do you see this card becoming a meme on the level of the drama meter or TWiP?

[11:49pm] Stumpy: Well get to those

[11:49pm] mhawk: If you could link me to the card, I can't clearly remember what was on it.

[11:50pm] Stumpy: http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1492/deck9650438.jpg

[11:51pm] Stumpy: Sorry I didnt include complacency

[11:52pm] mhawk: To be fair, the "you're too old for this game" wasn't actually written by me, I had to ask for help to make mean comments.

[11:52pm] Stumpy: Yeah, but it was too good to pass up.

[11:52pm] Stumpy: Ok, well sir I think its time to really get down to it.

[11:53pm] mhawk: I think the baps stockholm thing is over played as well. They are some of the best guys in the game and we worked with them from day one, there was just an !@#$%^& standing in the way

[11:54pm] Stumpy: BAPS is a great group, and that comment created quite the uproar in private between myself and them. It has since been settled.

[11:54pm] Stumpy: But really, they are some of the best players I have had the honor of playing with, and people wonder why TDSM8 allied to them early on.

[11:55pm] Stumpy: We had no choice but to stand by them, they were our mates.

[11:56pm] Stumpy: Im gonna take this to current events though

[11:56pm] Stumpy: if you dont mind

[11:56pm] Stumpy: TPF. An alliance that was not originally your home. You were actually set up to take over through a merger agreement. Would you say that you have fit well into the alliance? Has the alliance flourished under your leadership?

[11:58pm] mhawk: TPF had many internal issues when we took over. We drastically increased tech and military preparedness. Hence the joke about my complacency speeches. The fact we have some of the best military alliances on us in nearly a 17 vs 1 and have lost fewer than 30 members speaks volumes of the changes.

[11:58pm] mhawk: TPF went from 20 SDI's when I took over to well over 100

[11:59pm] mhawk: The whole experience however is about learning curve, when I built elysium I knew how far I could push things, I made all our allies and knew all our members. It took qutie awhile to meet all of TPF's allies and most the members.

[12:00am] mhawk: Some of those allies and myself just didn't mix well

[12:00am] Stumpy: Thats understandable.

[12:01am] Stumpy: This next question may seem a bit harsh, but it must be asked. What really happened in this last war? I think many of us now understand that TPF originally was not going to enter the conflict, hints your leaving. But what was the real story? What happened to bring them back in?

[12:01am] Stumpy: Did your leaving push them into changing their decision?

[12:06am] mhawk: This is a very complex question and hard to answer during time of war, but I can give a general outline that might best explain the situation.

[12:06am] Stumpy: Shoot.

[12:06am] mhawk: I'm going to violate your short post rule

[12:07am] Stumpy: Just make sure IRC doesnt cut off part of the answer

[12:08am] mhawk: 1) Roughly an hour after update when NPO and TORN declared war, bigwoody sends me a skype message stating NPO was peacing out of the war behind torn's back and that torn had been betrayed.

[12:10am] mhawk: 2)I immediately call him up and get the highest ranking NPO official I can into a call, happened to be Mary, we discuss things, apparently there was a talk of a ceasefire, but no orders or confirmation that it was going to happen the next day.

[12:11am] mhawk: 3) Bigwoody informs me TORN wants out and I tell him we all need to talk to moo, we go to bed. I sent off a message to moo requesting logs, but he has gone to sleep before I was notified by bw.

[12:12am] mhawk: 4) I still don't have logs the next morning, but need to leave for work and then labs afterwards. I talk to archon briefly asking if he could send logs regarding the negotiations. He sends them to my forum account after I leave and I'd read them on my way back.

[12:16am] mhawk: 5) about 2.5 hours before update I start getting text messages that some major shtf has happened and I need to get on.

[12:17am] mhawk: 6) I get home and turn on irc to an immediate skype call regarding a mass drop, I ask if anyone has spoke with moo. No one has. I get pissed off and put that call on hold and go to my gov that happened to be online and some of the embers.

[12:18am] mhawk: I'll point out I'm not going to discuss anymore about our ally decisions or what was said, I can answer for tpf and our guys only.

[12:18am] Stumpy: But TPF did cancel the pact and was initially refusing to enter behind your back?

[12:19am] Stumpy: I mean, many pointed out that it was extremely out of character for you to break a treaty. As a matter of fact, it was unheard of, which was confirmed by you reforming Elysium.

[12:20am] mhawk: that is getting ahead

[12:20am] Stumpy: Fair enough, take it away

[12:20am] mhawk: I think the issue that was raised was our MADP with TORN and our MADP with NPO

[12:20am] mhawk: both were now suddenly on opposite sides

[12:20am] mhawk: with one claiming the other had betrayed them

[12:21am] mhawk: and the other side not being online or in contact with us

[12:24am] Stumpy: So it was merely a misunderstanding? Or a rash action without communication?

[12:25am] mhawk: well from the point I arrived to make the call, I had no idea what had happened and was shocked to see TORN had surrendered. Our other allies were cancelling their treaties and wanted our sigs, I didnt know what was going on and their decision process, so i left and consulted with whoever was on in my gov at the time

[12:26am] mhawk: the main issues raised were supporting one treaty partner after they had "betrayed" another

[12:26am] mhawk: I made the point that we didnt know exactly what happened

[12:26am] mhawk: they had been in talks in my stead while I was at work and labs

[12:27am] mhawk: i didn't have time to listen to the reasoning and rashly left

[12:27am] mhawk: the issue however is it was my call to make

[12:27am] mhawk: and there was the possibility that someone had pulled a major betrayal

[12:27am] mhawk: after all, everyone of our allies was cancelling on NPO, and torn had already surrendered

[12:28am] mhawk: On my part however it didn't matter, I had taken part in talks and knew NPO was going to be at war and it was my obligation to defend.

[12:29am] Stumpy: Not just your part, MADP's partners hold that obligation no matter what.

[12:29am] Stumpy: Many would argue that regardless of the perceived betrayal, they were obligated to deal with it and help anyway.

[12:30am] mhawk: well that was the intent

[12:30am] mhawk: my issue was two fold

[12:31am] mhawk: one if we're in a fight anyways, what possible purpose could stating we think the war is so poorly handled we're dropping one of our longest allies?

[12:31am] mhawk: two, we're obligated to defend them by treaty cancellation clause and by Q, whats the point?

[12:31am] Stumpy: There isnt one. I would say it was a cop out and a poor one at best.

[12:31am] mhawk: well the important thing to get across here

[12:32am] mhawk: is my gov wanted to make a statement of how pissed they were about the torn thing

[12:32am] mhawk: as I said earlier that my experience with TPF is a learning curve, with Elysium I knew how far i could push and on what issues. Here I didnt have a solid idea of how far I could take the alliance on just my personal beliefs alone.

[12:33am] mhawk: knowing full well it would likely lead to a massive retaliation from quite a few folks that hold grudges.

[12:33am] Stumpy: Even though its their obligation as members to follow you?

[12:34am] mhawk: And now I'm confident they would have done so either way.

[12:34am] Stumpy: So you are saying that they werent in fact trying to back out of the war?

[12:34am] mhawk: They broke no obligation, I however proved to have a weakness

[12:34am] mhawk: they can't go to war if the leader misjudges and goes off to fight on his own

[12:35am] mhawk: I inheretied TPF, i didn't build it.

[12:35am] mhawk: That difference is what created the moment of doubt

[12:35am] mhawk: and that I called for a council meeting instead of putting my foot down

[12:35am] Stumpy: That actually makes sense

[12:35am] mhawk: We all learn lessons in command

[12:37am] Stumpy: However, this point should be addressed. Many alliances, like GGA, are claiming they always intended to help NPO and that the cancellations were just a clever ruse. However, I cant imagine how letting NPO take it a day and then having people dribble in randomly could be considered a good tactic.

[12:37am] Stumpy: Once and for all, are these claims !@#$%^&*?

[12:38am] Stumpy: Are the logs of Dr. Fresh rallying support from allies who had jumped ship real?

[12:38am] Stumpy: Did they, or did they not, back out in NPO's time of need, only to be rallied back later?

[12:40am] mhawk: I was not in the channel or paying attention to any of the fresh logs, someone linked me but i never read it so i can't comment on that

[12:40am] mhawk: I think you saw my earlier disclaimer regarding our allies

[12:41am] Stumpy: Ok, well from your perspective, do you think the mass cancellations were them stating they werent entering the war though?

[12:41am] Stumpy: I mean how else can you take several MADP partners cancelling their treaties in outrage?

[12:41am] Stumpy: And then not activating for 2 - 3 days?

[12:41am] Stumpy: Im not asking you to speak for them, but more your opinion on the matter.

[12:42am] mhawk: my opinion does matter since I know for certain some alliances position while the rest would be guessing

[12:42am] mhawk: I wouldnt want to group them up like that

[12:43am] Stumpy: Ok. Well, one final subject: Karma. Some call it a quest for vengeance, some call it an inevitable back lash, how do you view Karma?

[12:43am] Stumpy: What kind of terms do you expect for TPF?

[12:44am] Stumpy: Are there any conditions you require before you seek peace for TPF at all?

[12:44am] Stumpy: As an alliance taking almost 50% nation strength loss, do you think TPF performed well in this war?

[12:45am] Stumpy: Feel free to just answer in pieces like we've been doing.

[12:45am] Stumpy: The long answer strategy has already stopped : P

[12:50am] mhawk: 1) Karma is a very interesting propaganda tool. In a philosophically it tries to establish a moral righteousness by using a charged word. I feel there are some this fits well with, like MK, while others use it as a means of convinence, PC for example.

[12:51am] Stumpy: You could argue any military bloc formed during a war is a tool of convenience. But I do agree that some alliances do fit the title as they have legitimate grievances that some could view as requiring retribution. See: The last war and the way it was conducted.

[12:51am] mhawk: 2) I don't really care what the terms presented are, I know what I'd be willing to work with and that is all that matters.

[12:52am] mhawk: 3) NPO needs to get peace before we start working out peace agreements, necessarily those that followed us in will need to get peace as well before we can exit.

[12:55am] mhawk: I think we performed well this war. Keeping in mind we are fighting heavily out numbered at the peak nearly 17 on 1

[12:55am] mhawk: we've taken off nearly a million ns from mk

[12:56am] mhawk: if you take away the bandwagonners like crohl and dani_C and some fark guy that joined PC just to hit slayer and me

[12:56am] mhawk: we've taken nearly 2m NS off them

[12:56am] mhawk: and have severally damaged most others hitting us.

[12:56am] Stumpy: A valiant last stand.

[12:56am] Stumpy: So you are saying TPF will not leave the war until NPO gets peace? Even knowing that NPO could very well be at war for a very long time? I mean, its good to see people standing true.

[12:56am] mhawk: we're still in fighting shape and maintain control of our guys and have lost very few members

[12:56am] mhawk: that is exactly what I'm saying

[12:57am] Stumpy: That is a tall order. I remember making that statement with MK in the last war.

[12:57am] Stumpy: I personally know you will stand by it.

[12:57am] mhawk: It is an easier one

[12:58am] Stumpy: Whats an easier one?

[12:58am] mhawk: I know where my alliance stands internally and we don't have to choose between an ally as we did early in the war

[12:59am] mhawk: once the dice are in the air all you can do is accept that things are out of your hand and do your part in fighting

[12:59am] Stumpy: A brave and accurate statement to say the least

[12:59am] Stumpy: You just got hope they land on that hard six ; )

[12:59am] Stumpy: However, we are getting near update so Im gonna have to cut us off on that. Do you have any more comments to make on the subjects discussed? Closing statements? Any shout outs?

[01:01am] mhawk: I'd like to post one segment

[01:01am] Stumpy: Go ahead

[01:02am] mhawk: 01[23:10] <~mhawk> y'all are doing better than I thought

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:10] <~mhawk>

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:10] <&Desperado`> I would like to formally blame complacency

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:11] <&Archon`away> Eh, I'm doing fairly horribly

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:11] <~mhawk> I like that the Evil Overlord is fighting Karma incarnate

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:11] <&Archon`away> I'm destroying senes, and slayer got off to a terrible start against me

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:11] <~mhawk> and Evil is winning

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:11] <&Archon`away> but you're bending me backwards here

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:11] <&Archon`away> Evil's got a lot more tech

[01:02am] mhawk: [23:11] <&Archon`away> <.<

[01:03am] Stumpy: Oh God

[01:03am] Stumpy: Archon is not gonna be pleased : P

[01:03am] mhawk: Mk has been a blast this war

[01:03am] mhawk: I enjoyed the fight archon and I had

[01:03am] Stumpy: They usually are. Seriously, I have never met a finer group of people and Im proud of the alliance they have evolved into.

[01:03am] Stumpy: I hope he wasnt complacent : P

[01:04am] mhawk: The propaganda was amusing

[01:04am] Stumpy: Yeah, if you can give MK anything, its that their propaganda department is the best in this game.

[01:05am] mhawk: yup

[01:05am] Stumpy: Anyway, give us one last shout out and well call it a night

[01:05am] Stumpy: anyone player or alliance you wanna holla at?

[01:05am] mhawk: I also think it is amusing people converted my "hard six" thing

[01:05am] mhawk: given it was in my sig as a reference to doing stupid ideas

[01:05am] mhawk:

[01:06am] mhawk: that is why the other person is saying "no"

[01:06am] Stumpy: Oh well you should be proud of your meme : P

[01:09am] Stumpy: Well everyone, thats it for this episode. I'd like to thank my guest mhawk, you've been great and thank you for your time. Thanks for reading and tune in next week. This is Stumpy signing out for "Trashcat's Corner."

Edited May 7, 2009 by Stumpy Jung Il

[LJ Scott]

I'm sure that one was also by D34th of NpO.

Also good read :>

[Desperado]

Phew, thought trashcat's corner got lost somewhere. We need more Stumpy

[Stumpy Jung Il]

Phew, thought trashcat's corner got lost somewhere. We need more Stumpy

OOC: Just had to get past those whole finals and moving out thing

Also, it should be weekly from now until I grow tired of all your jabber.

[Derka Derek]

Sethly's actually in Sparta, not MHA, he was just one of the leaders of Mostly Harmful Alliance in TE for awhile. Besides that, I love you for writing these. Thanks Trashcat!

Edited May 7, 2009 by Derka Derek

[Uralica]

Love it, love it, love it.

Keep these coming.

[Scorbolt]

Amazing Stumpy. Vanguard propaganda is the best propaganda.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

Amazing Stumpy. Vanguard propaganda is the best propaganda.

I am Vanguard Propaganda. Nay, I AM VANGUARD!

[Kaveman]

Good read. Thanks for putting this together.

[KagetheSecond]

Another great issue, Stumpy.

BAPS

[Mandellav]

Another fantastic Trashcat's Corner.

Stumpy for Player of the Week...next week.

[Nintenderek]

(Image by Nintenderek)

Finally. My CN career is complete. I have been mentioned in Trash Cat's corner after three hours of work collecting flags and making that stupid sig

Also, I see you forgot to mention the Obama posters for best meme.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Nintenderek

[Deadshot]

Karma is not your only audience. I have read every issue and I love it.

Stumpy

[Schattenmann]

Saddened not to win Thread of the Week. That damned Margrave and his essaygasms.

[WildeKaard]

Wait so if Vox gets full peace, does that mean they're actually going to start acting like an alliance?

[Stumpy Jung Il]

Saddened not to win Thread of the Week. That damned Margrave and his essaygasms.

Keep the faith. You'll get there. However, its hard to give props to my competition

Edited May 7, 2009 by Stumpy Jung Il

[Chinatownbus]

I see. Very well then, mhawk. If you wish to keep making potshots at us I can see that your promised efforts to reconcile after this war ring hollow indeed. What a shame.

On another note, you're not the only ones fighting us, so this quote is quite absurd

"[12:56am] mhawk: if you take away the bandwagonners like crohl and dani_C and some fark guy that joined PC just to hit slayer and me

[12:56am] mhawk: we've taken nearly 2m NS off them".

Give your meatshields some credit too, ey? Although they don't deserve any help, right? That OPP community sure is holding out, it is quite telling to see how you treat your "closest" friends, I wonder how you would treat your enemies? All the credit being given to TPF for fighting well and being prepared is baloney. Your MoW was out of money within the first wave. You may be taking on a lot of alliances but how many of them are actually >2m NS, or hell even 1m? Face the facts and stop drinking your own kool aid, cuz I'm not buying it.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Chinatownbus

[savethecheerleader]

Don't all squirrels have 4 legs?

[magicninja]

Good one. Also one of the best interviews to date.

[Nintenderek]

[11:39pm] mhawk: I'd have to say ninetenderek is one of the worst on any side. I did nothing but try to help that guy, including helping mediate an a rl aquintance of his stalking him in the game. Something happened somewhere and he flipped out and decided myself and any alliance I've been apart of has betrayed him on some very deep level.

Just now saw this. Why don't you tell the full story Mhawk? About how you were planning to attack SOAP the very night I left it, for things I said on the OWF expressing my opinions? I'll leave this thread with that, for I know it will be derailed if I don't.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Nintenderek

[Archon]

Disclaimer: This topic does not include righteousness, long speeches, Archon, or a better world, all Karma members should avoid reading at all costs… Oh wait, there goes all my readers. $%&@.

...

Poster of the Week goes to…

Archon! You’ve been busy this week making those semi-intelligent posts. MAKING ME PROUD AND STUFF.

Oh you tricky cat you. You tried, but you knew you couldn't actually keep me out

Edited May 7, 2009 by TheNeverender

[Stumpy Jung Il]

This may be the most dramatic issue to date. I am excited to see where this goes.

Oh you tricky cat you. You tried, but you knew you couldn't actually keep me out

You caught me you sly devil.

Edited May 7, 2009 by Stumpy Jung Il

[King William IV]

Great issue this week, I especially love the Legion mention!!!

[Schattenmann]

Wait so if Vox gets full peace, does that mean they're actually going to start acting like an alliance?

How in the Hell are there still people using this line? Vox has a charter, forum, IRC channel, treaties, democractically elected government with defined terms, definite AA, flag, wiki, defining ideologies and embassies in addition to conducting war, senate campaigns, and diplomatic discussions. We're more of an alliance than GGA has been in over a year.

We act like any other alliance that refuses to disband in the face of unending war regardless of behavior. When we receive peace, we'll continue to be an alliance until we stop being an alliance. In either scenario, we're not "acting."

Keep the faith. You'll get there. However, its hard to give props to my competition

Methinks the war can only go on for so many weeks.