Dark Fist DoW 2.0

[Alterego]

I believe NOIR is an ODP and iirc DE declared on NEW (not the other way around). Just throwing it out there.

Treaty or not, CB or not we all read what was said, they were coming anyway. A treaty after the fact is just fortunate.

[Olivia8907]

Why must everything be put underneath a magnifying glass?

o/DF

[Newhotness]

go get em Dark Fist. Also, i secretly wanna homosecks Starcraftmazter. shhhhh. dont tell him.

[Alterego]

Why must everything be put underneath a magnifying glass?

o/DF

A damn treaty or CB would be nice in a DoW. Its a sad state of affairs in Karma when that is overlooked as not really too important to go to war.

[Starcraftmazter]

Thats the best you can manage.

Tit for tat?

And DF declares war because NEW honored their treaty? What kind of BS is that?

We declared war on NATO because they honoured their treaty. In fact, I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the dows in this war are like that. Yet you are the only one b!@#$ing about it

It seems to me that DF is just trying to benefit from this war. This DoW is simply ridiculous. If you're going to bandwagon, then at least use a treaty. I'm not saying that it's not right to defend your friends, it's just not right to attack other alliances without a legitimate reason. I don't belive "They're on the other side" is a good enough reason.

Think about what you are saying, because it's pretty stupid.

We could have just as easily attacked NPO or IRON using valid treaties. Instead we chose to attack you, since there are less nations which have offensive wars with your alliance, and nations you are at war with would appreciate help.

We will get much more damaged fighting with NEW no doubt, due to these reasons that you are not being attacked anywhere near as hard as IRON and NPO (among many others). What the hell do we possibly have to benefit from this war? And how is it any less honourable than any other?

We will get more damaged ourselves, we will make a greater difference, but because we have no piece of paper to do this, we can't? Talk to the hand.

[Olivia8907]

A damn treaty or CB would be nice in a DoW. Its a sad state of affairs in Karma when that is overlooked as not really too important to go to war.

Its not like they're joining for a bad reason. Their helping friends and maybe they don't have a treaty with DE is because there keeping their options open and where does it state that you MUST have a treaty to prove your friends or to DOW?

[Alterego]

Its not like they're joining for a bad reason. Their helping friends and maybe they don't have a treaty with DE is because there keeping their options open and where does it state that you MUST have a treaty to prove your friends or to DOW?

Another keeper, this is a BS excuse and I will be whipping this quote out when Karma comes for your alliance.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Alterego

[Deruvian]

Treaty or not, CB or not we all read what was said, they were coming anyway. A treaty after the fact is just fortunate.

I believe if you actually read what I said then you'd know I was questioning the legitimacy of Dark Fist's entrance.

edit: grammar

Edited May 6, 2009 by Deruvian

[foxodi]

And DF declares war because NEW honored their treaty? What kind of BS is that? It seems to me that DF is just trying to benefit from this war. This DoW is simply ridiculous. If you're going to bandwagon, then at least use a treaty. I'm not saying that it's not right to defend your friends, it's just not right to attack other alliances without a legitimate reason. I don't belive "They're on the other side" is a good enough reason.

Yes, Dark Fist plans to benefit greatly by entering potentially nuclear warfare with no desire to request reps, you sir are making things up.

Also we will not apologize for believing in the greater fight.

Also to the Chap who's claiming we are out to ZI them all, I laugh. You need to get off that washer machine before the spinning gets too hard.

[Starcraftmazter]

Another keeper, this is a BS excuse and I will be whipping this quote out when Karma comes for your alliance.

There is no Karma to come to our side, we have done nothing wrong like Hegemony has. If you are unhappy with our decision to DoW, then that's your own problem we really don't care, and will never care. Your arguments are stupid and illogical and have and will be proved as such.

[Alterego]

I believe if you actually read what I said then you'd know I was questioning the fact the legitimacy of Dark Fist's entrance.

Apologies, I'm just so furious with Karmas latest "honourable" move and the backing its getting because its for a "good cause".

[Alterego]

There is no Karma to come to our side, we have done nothing wrong like Hegemony has. If you are unhappy with our decision to DoW, then that's your own problem we really don't care, and will never care. Your arguments are stupid and illogical and have and will be proved as such.

Not Karma the bloc, karma (you reap what you sew) the thing you are supposed to be fighting for.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Alterego

[Starcraftmazter]

Apologies, I'm just so furious with Karmas latest "honourable" move and the backing its getting because its for a "good cause".

This is not a move by Karma, this is a move by Dark Fist. Please do not take the actions of one alliance to be the actions of an entire war coalition, consisting of around 100 alliances.

Not Karma the bloc, karma (you reap what you sew) the thing you are supposed to be fighting for.

I know what you meant.

Edited May 6, 2009 by Starcraftmazter

[Alterego]

This is not a move by Karma, this is a move by Dark Fist. Please do not take the actions of one alliance to be the actions of an entire war coalition, consisting of around 100 alliances.

That wont fly anymore. You said this was planned since NATO were taken care of, other karma alliances would have been told. It was planned and carried out as Karma.

You even say so here:

. The reason for the war is pretty simple; We're on one side, they're on another...of the same war.

[angryraccoon]

I have a personal love treaty with SCM and it is most def not optional aggression.

[Drai]

Whoah, we're fighting against the same alliance SCM. Guess that warrants q-ops in our channel for you

[kulomascovia]

We declared war on NATO because they honoured their treaty. In fact, I'm pretty sure 99.9% of the dows in this war are like that. Yet you are the only one b!@#$ing about it

Yes, I am aware of that. However, your reason for going to war with NEW is "they're on the other side", not because of your treaty obligations. As you said, many alliances went to war to honor their treaties. So how can you classify them as "the other side"? Are they fighting for Karma or simply for their allies? You cannot use your perception of who is on what side to declare war, especially in wars like this one.

We could have just as easily attacked NPO or IRON using valid treaties. Instead we chose to attack you, since there are less nations which have offensive wars with your alliance, and nations you are at war with would appreciate help.

We will get much more damaged fighting with NEW no doubt, due to these reasons that you are not being attacked anywhere near as hard as IRON and NPO (among many others). What the hell do we possibly have to benefit from this war? And how is it any less honourable than any other?

If you are so concerned for your allies, then why not use a valid treaty to declare war? From what I have read, you already have one.

I don't think this DoW is honorable because it implies that you guys are going to war to defend a "side" and not an ally.

The reason for the war is pretty simple; We're on one side, they're on another...of the same war. We got word that some alliances fighting NEW could use some backup, and so we're going to provide it. DF is not an alliance which needs a piece of paper as an excuse to do what's right and help out some friends. In b4 e-laywers.

This, to me, seems like an opportunistic DoW. It seemed as if your primary concern was defending your "side" and not helping your allies. In fact, it mentions nothing about allies. Plus, NEW already has 4 or so alliances attacking it. Declaring war on an overburdened alliances doesn't seem very honorable.

Finally, this seems to be setting a precedent by saying that alliances can declare war without, as you say, a "piece of paper". In that case, what's stopping larger alliances from attacking smaller ones in this war? Just as DF has, they could have easily said "they're on the other side, other alliances need help, we're just defending our friends a treaty isn't necessary...etc" and raid a small alliance. However inconvenient it may seem to you, that "piece of paper" does keep order.

[suryanto tan]

SCM, when you reply, can you please NOT to assume that people you talked to are members of Nusantara?

A lot of people that voice disagreement against you are not member of Nusantara. They are members of good alliances on both side of the war. They have their own standard of honor which is different from yours. They just do not yet accustomed to the way you entered this war.

Do not be surprised if you get trolled by members of Karma as well, (you might, you might not), but some alliances that we hold in high respect, like Gramlins, did publicly state that bandwagon is frown upon. Mostly Harmless Alliance also, I believe, live with that principle. That is why they said they will defend NPO against bandwagoner despite of their stance in this war.

Different alliance, different culture. That is the way it is.

Edited May 6, 2009 by suryanto tan

[Matthew Conrad]

Not Karma the bloc, karma (you reap what you sew) the thing you are supposed to be fighting for.

Not that I advocate PZI or any of that nonsense we are fighting against, but your line of thinking would entail that we do implement those things in the surrender terms we hand out. Consider the fact that karma is "balance." We are not evening the balance, but simply going half way by pushing such acts out of this world. Obviously, no one has had to pay any draconian amount of reps so I guess we're really not fighting for karma. We are much kinder than that.

[Marginali]

very wonderful!

What a 'HONORABLE' move you make Dark Fist... i wish you all the best and yeah... we are prepared for this total nonsense...

welcome to Indonesian warriors land!

[Alterego]

Not that I advocate PZI or any of that nonsense we are fighting against, but your line of thinking would entail that we do implement those things in the surrender terms we hand out. Consider the fact that karma is "balance." We are not evening the balance, but simply going half way by pushing such acts out of this world. Obviously, no one has had to pay any draconian amount of reps so I guess we're really not fighting for karma. We are much kinder than that.

Unless you are a spokesperson for karma I chose to ignore your rewritten definition of what karma means today, sorry.

[foxodi]

Finally, this seems to be setting a precedent by saying that alliances can declare war without, as you say, a "piece of paper". In that case, what's stopping larger alliances from attacking smaller ones in this war? Just as DF has, they could have easily said "they're on the other side, other alliances need help, we're just defending our friends a treaty isn't necessary...etc" and raid a small alliance. However inconvenient it may seem to you, that "piece of paper" does keep order.

Those pieces of papers is also what made the Hegemony - I'd rather see less lines on the MDP web then more. Like people have said for eternity; you don't need a piece of paper to do what is right or fight for friends; as for larger alliances declaring on smaller alliances without a treaty obligation - I believe history has already recorded a number of these incidents, in which case each individual needs to educate themselves on the matter before they make their own decision about it.

[gantanX]

NEW we'll help anyway we can when we can. TPF please remain respectful.

leave DF to us Mhawk..we know how to burn alliances

especially if this is true :

I believe NOIR is an ODP and iirc DE declared on NEW (not the other way around). Just throwing it out there.

[Alterego]

Those pieces of papers is also what made the Hegemony - I'd rather see less lines on the MDP web then more. Like people have said for eternity; you don't need a piece of paper to do what is right or fight for friends; as for larger alliances declaring on smaller alliances without a treaty obligation - I believe history has already recorded a number of these incidents, in which case each individual needs to educate themselves on the matter before they make their own decision about it.

So you admit you know its wrong, you are just doing it because others have done it in the past. Who's next after your ZI war against NEW is over?

[Matthew Conrad]

Unless you are a spokesperson for karma I chose to ignore your rewritten definition of what karma means today, sorry.

I was speaking about the word "karma" as you were referring to. Consider the number of harsh reps NPO has forced in the past. We wouldn't even be able to put that much punishment upon one alliance. What, make them disband and then make each individual former member pay 14000 tech per 10 infra level (I claim copyrights for this new form of reps )?

I don't speak for Karma, but by your own definition of our goal, we wouldn't even be able to balance out what NPO has done for 3 years. Thus, I can also ignore your god given definition of Karma's goal.