My Thoughts on the War

[fupresti]

Before I start, this is merely my opinion and not that of my alliance. Also, if you don't consider yourself open to opinions or feel the need to incessantly troll because you feel differently then go vote in a poll or troll a Declaration of War in AP.

First, I will state that while although I am now a member of Mushroom Kingdom on the Karma side, I spent the better part of my CN career firmly entrenched in what is now seen as the Hegemony. I spent more than a year in the New Polar Order and almost a year in The Order of Righteous Nations, serving in many different areas including many .gov roles. I have done my fair share of eliminating alliances I was annoyed or simply bothered by. I took great pleasure in seeing \m/ disband. Others I have helped to destroy or cripple I now regret, including such alliances as NAAC and CIN. But, those are actions I can not undo those actions, but I can pay my respect to their memories.

Now, I find myself in an entirely new position on the other side and I have to tell you, it's been quite fun. What made me write this piece was the comments I have seen from the Hegemony referring to the Karma side as nothing more than opportunistic jackals seeking nothing more than a shot to take Pacifica down a notch. They say that Karma is not a community, it is only a relationship of convenience. While I will not seek to defend all those on this side as angels, which they are not, I can only seek to comment on Karma as a whole.

It is easy for the Hegemony side to lack the insight as to how most alliance on this side operate, I was there. Most in the Hegemony carry over notions of how alliances are and operate and have been unwilling to see fit to seek out the truth about such alliances. Alliances like Greenland Republic have been saddled with the NAAC tag from most on the Hegemony side for most of their existence. In my time in the Hegemony, most alliances on that side were simply unwilling to accept this was a new alliance so they carried over hatred from their days of battling NAAC. Look at the Mushroom Kingdom, still to this day referred to by most in the Hegemony as LUE 2.0. Last time I checked, no one from MK has "LUEicided" on the boards. I mean, the Siberian Tiger Alliance is one of Mushroom Kingdoms closest allies and Tyga launched that damn nuke that retaliated that vile action perpetrated by the LUE member. Tyga saw fit to recognize MK as new alliance, yet those on the Hegemony side continue to spew their comments against what has been a valuable member in the CN community.

So, that brings me back to my original comment about the Hegemony comments on the Karma group. Most of the alliances on this side share a true kinship with one another. Move between the various channels of the Karma side and you will find active and friendly faces, even against those who are on opposite sides. Move between those on the Hegemony side and make sure to not say Huggle or talk in CAPS, we wouldn't want to have a good time now do we! However, from that friendship comes allegiance. The alliances that make up Karma are the closest I have been a part of. These (not all) alliances are not seeking to simply topple Pacifica, they are supporting their allies in this war that we all knew was coming. Karma seems a fitting description, for at least in my time in CN this side has spent a hell of a lot of time under the heel of a boot. So, is it all that shocking that after so long, they built the resolve and dedication to overcome and right the wrongs they perceived to exist. How many curbstomps and disbandments were going to be allowed until the masses rose up and said enough?

Now, I am not an optimist and think that should Karma win, that CN will be a group full of sunshine and rainbows post war. In fact, I believe post-war this may be the best time ever for war as many different factions form to seek out the role that NPO and allies once held. Power is a motivating factor and there are some with ambitions to become the next NPO. But, for the time being, in this war, a group of alliances both large and small, through friendship and loyalty, banded together to overcome the establishment in hopes of rectifying the ills committed against them in the past. Friendship, kind of a interesting topic in and of itself. I mean, look at the past war when so many alliances jumped in for some of those on the Karma side. They did not question the need to support their allies against overwhelming odds. Now look at Hegemony. Pacifica was abandoned by her closest brothers and sisters, only to have them come back in shame to fight. These are not the small, relative unknowns like alliances like LOST and FLY, these were alliance like IRON, GGA and MCXA, sanctioned groups who have numbers that small groups would dream of. Now, I will not question NPO's role in this, but regardless you all signed MADP's. You took up a bond that should have been unbreakable. You question NPO role in war, yet were quick to justify GGA and Valhalla CB against Hyperion? Quite convenient when you had the numbers back then to justify questionable actions, but in the light of odds against you, the moral high ground seemed all to appealing.

In closing, let's just stop with the whining. You are no more just and honorable in your actions now then you were when you saw fit to crush those who had no voice. It's time for you to taste the medicine and come back another day and try again. That said, I truly hope those on the Hegemony side are given honorable terms. I do not seek the eternal damnation of Paficica or IRON. (OK, maybe GGA ) My proudest moment in CN is when as a member of TORN we gave white peace to MK and GR. It forged a bond between MK and TORN I hope prospers post war. Maybe there is a possibility it will happen again between others.

Karma members and government, take note. Although most on the Hegemony side have done incredible things to you, I ask that you take the high road if the war decidedly moves in our favor and surrender discussions begin. Remember how you felt in the face of overwhelming requests for Tech and other issues. Two wrongs don't make a right. Treat those on the Hegemony side with honor and respect in your negotiations and do not ask of them which you so unjustly had to endure previously. They will respect you and there may even be a chance to form new friendships.I will be extremly disappointed should you seek this as an opportunity to embarass or enslave those who you have defeated. Remember the name Karma when you sit down with the alliances of Hegemony, this group we are a part of is not one of vengeance, but of retribution. Your summit to the top should be sufficient to show you overcame.

tl;dr - In the famous words of Bill S. Preston Esq., Be excellent to each other.

Edited April 25, 2009 by Fupresti

[Melkson]

I prefer the shorter version of this thread.

[jaaku]

good read fupresti. Hopefully people will listen.

[Hegemon Rob]

This is pretty good, couldn't have said it better myself.

[Nick1a]

Well said, it should be fun.

[Dochartaigh]

Well said Fup. well said. I have to agree with much of what was written in that thread. I myself fit relatively nice in Fup's shoes having spent over 2 years as a Polar. (when the hell did i stop saying Polarian?????)

[Timoteo]

Grace and mercy are truly awesome things. It's nice to see them still alive in the hearts of rulers.

[enderland]

I'm pretty sure once the anhilation fest is over that white peace will the theme of the day.

[Master Waldo]

Well said. May grace and mercy rule the day.

[Sithis]

You are wrong and I hate you.

[King Death II]

You are wrong and I hate you.

What he said.

Also the high road is BS and should not be taken. Why let NPO keep doing what they do when they regrow and repair after the war?

[Näktergal]

I think it's worth noting that the political situation of mid-'09 is not the same as the political situation of late-'06 (and god I feel old now). The NPO and NpO were able to rebuild so rapidly after GWI not JUST because of the strength of their internal organization (though that certainly played a role), but also because they had some phenomenal individuals involved in their leadership, making things happen. And because the world as a whole basically ignored them for a while, assuming they couldn't recover.

But now? Everyone knows that sort of recovery is possible, so people will be far more aware of rapid rebuilding and a flurry of treaties as a threat. A lot of the "old heroes" of the Orders have either moved on or stopped playing - does the new guard have the same charisma and determination necessary to pull back from the brink? Plus, in the wake of GWI, the enemy (the CoaLUEtion) was already falling apart before the war was even over, meaning the NPO had the opportunity to rebuild during a time of relative chaos (and ultimately, to forge alliances with former enemies while picking off potential threats). But when the current war ends, odds are at least SOME fairly powerful coalitions and blocs are going to remain intact - and potentially make rebuilding political ties that much harder for the NPO and their allies.

The NPO found it very easy to sign treaties and form massive blocs when they were still seen as being "the winning side" - the bandwagon mentality doesn't just apply in wartime. But if they lose, will they find it as easy to sway some of the larger alliances back to their side?

Note that I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not even saying the Hegemony will lose the war. But I am suggesting that conditions are significantly different now, both internal and external, to make any prediction of events based on past behavior to be spurious at best.

[Buds The Man]

I'm pretty sure once the anhilation fest is over that white peace will the theme of the day.

For some it may but their is too much hatred for certain alliances for this to be very likely.

As for the OP good read. I think this war was neccessary win loose or draw it should bring bob back to a more level playing field and will force members on both sides to think before they act. I find the KARMA connection a bit out of convenience though and I dont believe it will stay unified after this is over. There is too much hatred in some that they will go against the Ideals that KARMA says it holds, and if victourious will attempt to exact revenge on those whom they felt wronged by in the past. As for myself personally I dont necessarily disagree with some of what KARMA is trying to do but I dont believe the whole coalition believes in the principles that are the forefront of KARMAS basis for this war and if victorious will simply let hatred rule the day.

I will continue to fight hard for Valhalla though I hope through this war ALL alliances have learned a bit of a lesson.

[Mogar]

Mercy is not going to happen in this war if the hegemony loses.

[Nizzle]

Mercy is not going to happen in this war if the hegemony loses.

I really don't see why you would think that. Some of the largest alliances against you in this war don't believe in oppressive reparations.

[fupresti]

For some it may but their is too much hatred for certain alliances for this to be very likely.

I agree with you, it is only my hope that those who not think of how badly they can extort those on the opposite side take a look and see that have the ability to usher in a change to the game that would be beneficial for all, regardless of sides.

[Mogar]

I really don't see why you would think that. Some of the largest alliances against you in this war don't believe in oppressive reparations.

Remember the last time NPO got white peace? I don't think they'll be getting anything other that extremely harsh reparations should they lose.

[VIdiot the Great]

Mercy is not going to happen in this war if the hegemony loses.

I hope you're wrong Mogar.

It matters not who the piper is, for as long as people continue to equate mercy with weakness, instead of the strength and justice it truly denotes, we'll all be dancing to the same old tune.

VI

[Buds The Man]

I agree with you, it is only my hope that those who not think of how badly they can extort those on the opposite side take a look and see that have the ability to usher in a change to the game that would be beneficial for all, regardless of sides.

I hope you're wrong Mogar.

It matters not who the piper is, for as long as people continue to equate mercy with weakness, instead of the strength and justice it truly denotes, we'll all be dancing to the same old tune.

VI

For who ever wins I hope these statements will be taken to heart and if not White peace given fair terms shall rule the days.

[Doitzel]

I think it's worth noting that the political situation of mid-'09 is not the same as the political situation of late-'06 (and god I feel old now). The NPO and NpO were able to rebuild so rapidly after GWI not JUST because of the strength of their internal organization (though that certainly played a role), but also because they had some phenomenal individuals involved in their leadership, making things happen. And because the world as a whole basically ignored them for a while, assuming they couldn't recover.

But now? Everyone knows that sort of recovery is possible, so people will be far more aware of rapid rebuilding and a flurry of treaties as a threat. A lot of the "old heroes" of the Orders have either moved on or stopped playing - does the new guard have the same charisma and determination necessary to pull back from the brink? Plus, in the wake of GWI, the enemy (the CoaLUEtion) was already falling apart before the war was even over, meaning the NPO had the opportunity to rebuild during a time of relative chaos (and ultimately, to forge alliances with former enemies while picking off potential threats). But when the current war ends, odds are at least SOME fairly powerful coalitions and blocs are going to remain intact - and potentially make rebuilding political ties that much harder for the NPO and their allies.

The NPO found it very easy to sign treaties and form massive blocs when they were still seen as being "the winning side" - the bandwagon mentality doesn't just apply in wartime. But if they lose, will they find it as easy to sway some of the larger alliances back to their side?

Note that I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm not even saying the Hegemony will lose the war. But I am suggesting that conditions are significantly different now, both internal and external, to make any prediction of events based on past behavior to be spurious at best.

I think for every post you've made in three years I've had to quote it and express my affection.

I tend to agree. The game itself is much different than it was in 06 and I don't know if NPO will be able to rebuild quite so rapidly -- it depends a great deal on how damaged they are at the end of things as well. Politically it does not look so good: the friends they went into this war with are all apparently less than pleased with them, and NPO is being squarely defeated which will make them less likely to pick up the parasites who attach themselves to the powerful. It will be very interesting to watch, at least.

[Paradigm]

I think for every post you've made in three years I've had to quote it and express my affection.

laughing - isnt that the truth! (I had to avoid it most times as it seems every post I wanted to QFT)

I guess I look at the future more than just has NPO been taught a lesson.

The web needed to be re-written. People need to sign treaties for real reasons, not just to make a powerfull block for curbstomping.

Things have played out better than I ever could have hoped making the possibility of change to come in time on these subjects.

[Näktergal]

I think for every post you've made in three years I've had to quote it and express my affection.

Love you too, Doitzel.

it depends a great deal on how damaged they are at the end of things as well. Politically it does not look so good: the friends they went into this war with are all apparently less than pleased with them, and NPO is being squarely defeated which will make them less likely to pick up the parasites who attach themselves to the powerful. It will be very interesting to watch, at least.

It's telling that the Initiative basically had to turn on itself and have a civil war before falling apart, but Continuum has been slowly rotting away for months now. While it might seem like it to people on the outside, the alliances that jumped ship recently were NOT acting on a spur of the moment decision.

I think the aftermath of this war is going to be very fertile ground for new blocs and coalitions. How many of them manage to last more than a few months before falling apart or being absorbed into something bigger is another question entirely. And whether or not the NPO can work magic again if they lose this war is a question I'm not even prepared to guess at.

[Dochartaigh]

laughing - isnt that the truth! (I had to avoid it most times as it seems every post I wanted to QFT)

I guess I look at the future more than just has NPO been taught a lesson.

The web needed to be re-written. People need to sign treaties for real reasons, not just to make a powerfull block for curbstomping.

Things have played out better than I ever could have hoped making the possibility of change to come in time on these subjects.

Well, i am hoping that the lessons from this war and the SPW are finally taken to heart. The reasons (at least for the war against Polaris in SPW) are basically the same. From what was said from leadership of the alliances in Q/1V, the treaties were canceled for basically the same reason that the same alliances canceled on Polaris (though it amuses me that said alliances still maintain treaties with Pacifica whereas they dropped all ties/booted Polaris).

[Chief Savage Man]

Well now that you're not in TORN, I can look at this with less bias than I usually would for you. Good read and a good ideal to follow.

[Heracles the Great]

Great posts by several people in this thread