My Thoughts on the War

[Ogaden]

Rofl, might as well make it even then: 50 tech to the winner. Simple enough. :-p

You in?

I probably won't have 50 tech by the end of this, as I mentioned before.

Edited April 25, 2009 by James Dahl

[Deadshot]

snip

Personally, I think there is going to have to be some degree of compromise between taking the high road and keeping history from repeating itself. I don't see white peace being easily achievable, though perhaps not out of the question. I think people in this game (on both sides) have memories that are too long, and grudges are never let go.

I also have to say, on the subjects of friendships between the two sides..that's going to be extremely difficult between certain factions. When you consider that many of the people on the Karma side now were also part of the Friends Before Infra movement, it is obvious that at the very least, the two sides have very different ways of viewing things. While Karma's side is more likely to forget about their pixels, their politics, their agendas, and do what they ultimately feel is right, the Hegemony side has not shown that cohesion. Instead we see treaty cancellations with ignored termination provisions happen on the eve of war, or after war has broken out. Then we see public derision, and the terminating parties come back to honor their treaties. That sort of thing tends to make people in general less trusting of those flip-flopping alliances. Until trust in their words is restored to at least marginal levels, I don't see true friendships developing between the two sides, with the possible exceptions of a select few.

With all due respect, all of the alliances that canceled with NPO on the eve or at the onset of war were still tied through other ways. Karma has done a great job (seriously, hats off to you) of spinning this to their advantage. Had NATO planned on not entering this war on the side of the "Hegemony", we would have left Q and Watling as well. You can troll and argue that al you want, but if you let logic take over you will see that. Karma has done a wonderful job with PR this campaign, that is for sure. Maybe once the war is over, you will be able to look at what is really there instead of what you want everyone to think.

Props to the OP for a well thought out post. And Props to the Karma people for having some massively awesome propaganda.

[Guzalot]

Ok specifics:

I estimate that Karma will demand 200k tech, $50 Billion, and total disarmament for 5 years. No nukes, tanks, airplanes, factories, military wonders, alliances, or over 20% soldiers.

Also, FAN will be allowed to raid us as much as they like.

Also we will have to change our flag to one that says "we suck"

I lol'd

This thread has been a great read. Thank you OP.

[V The King]

With all due respect, all of the alliances that canceled with NPO on the eve or at the onset of war were still tied through other ways. Karma has done a great job (seriously, hats off to you) of spinning this to their advantage. Had NATO planned on not entering this war on the side of the "Hegemony", we would have left Q and Watling as well. You can troll and argue that al you want, but if you let logic take over you will see that. Karma has done a wonderful job with PR this campaign, that is for sure. Maybe once the war is over, you will be able to look at what is really there instead of what you want everyone to think.

So, if NATO's intention was to join in the war in NPO's side, anyways, why did it cancel the MADP it had with Pacifica after they were already at war as well as the alliance having almost identical obligations through other treaties? Seems fairly nonsensical to cancel a treaty with an alliance, just to join the war on their side a few days later.

[Tiggah]

So, if NATO's intention was to join in the war in NPO's side, anyways, why did it cancel the MADP it had with Pacifica after they were already at war as well as the alliance having almost identical obligations through other treaties? Seems fairly nonsensical to cancel a treaty with an alliance, just to join the war on their side a few days later.

It's to make a statement. They did the same thing in ODN when they joined in GWI cutting ties with LUE while defending them. Essentially it's saying, I'll defend you because that's what I agreed to do, but this is it. How that seems to go over so many heads is beyond me.

[Deadshot]

So, if NATO's intention was to join in the war in NPO's side, anyways, why did it cancel the MADP it had with Pacifica after they were already at war as well as the alliance having almost identical obligations through other treaties? Seems fairly nonsensical to cancel a treaty with an alliance, just to join the war on their side a few days later.

It was the next day. Karma did a great job making sure that no matter what anyone did it would have bad PR. Other alliances have canceled because they didn't support and it has been hailed. tC alliances did it and it was trolled. It is no secret Karma wanted all of tC included and that ruined your fun.

Regardless, you are right in the fact that it seemed nonsensical, however what's done is done and NATO honored our tC ties. tC is not dissolved, nor was it when those announcements were made.

[Opethian]

If we weren't worried about the high road we could never have assembled a coalition that had a chance to win.

You can't beat the NPO without playing like the NPO. If Karma tries to take a "high road" we'll just see history repeat itself.

[bzelger]

You can't beat the NPO without playing like the NPO. If Karma tries to take a "high road" we'll just see history repeat itself.

The NPO is better than us at playing like the NPO. If we try to beat them by playing like them, we will lose.

[Matthew Conrad]

I think white peace is essentially deserved for those who fought in honoring their treaties and did not constantly slander a respectable opponent. Many alliances in this war on hegemony's side, I believe, do not believe in what NPO has done in starting the war but they feel obliged to honor their treaties. I very much respect that and hope those alliances get white peace.

On the other hand, there are certain alliances/people, on both sides, who have gone past the line in obviously trolling of their opponent. Mainly those who planned the destruction of innocent alliances, both past and present, should be given harsh terms. I believe these terms should not be as bad as those they have given to others in the past because, well, we must act more honorable than they.

[Vilien]

I probably won't have 50 tech by the end of this, as I mentioned before.

You will receive 50 tech if Karma places undo restrictions or excessive terms on Pacifica.

[Ogaden]

You will receive 50 tech if Karma places undo restrictions or excessive terms on Pacifica.

If they do just send it to Karma, they'll get it anyways.

[Vilien]

If they do just send it to Karma, they'll get it anyways.

Excuse me. I will pay all tech reparations that you owe (Total reparation required / # of Pacificans) should that come to pass.

[Ogaden]

Excuse me. I will pay all tech reparations that you owe (Total reparation required / # of Pacificans) should that come to pass.

Nah, I'll pay my own reps.

The only reason I would accept terms is for my allies and comrades. If it was just me I'd be happy enough to fight to the death.

[Minilla Island]

Fupresti made this a good read. The question that needs to be answered is this: Polar became very close during the SPW. We lost over 250 members during that conflict. However, we had the discipline and talent to rebuild ourselves. Nobody knows if the Hegemony as the ability to do the same thing, because they never really faced adversity. I am not talking about Valhalla, which has zillions in cash. I am talking about the Big Two. Can IRON and NPO really buckle down and rebuild themselves in the face of insane terms? They are MASSIVE Alliances, and from the outside, really does not have the closeness that Polar did. So, I question whether they would be able to rise from the ashes. This, the rebuilding phase, is the $64K question.

[St Heliers]

I do not see harsh reparations as necessary but some serious concessions are...

I've been a part of alliances that felt they had to disband due to harsh and frankly ridiculous NPO peace conditions. This sort of thing has to stop, the game cannot benefit when good alliances and people are forced away due to defeat in war.

Peace reps should be limited to not excessive amounts of tech and money, during the War of The Coalition a number of GR members (incl myself) were required to decom Wonders as part of peace terms. Clearly this is an attempt to cripple an alliances fighting ability which doesn't seem like good sportsmanship.

Overall one of the results of this war should be to institute some standards of restraint in regards to war conditions, demands for tech and money are reasonable provided they are not excessive. Anything above this e.g.moving colour spheres, violating alliance sovereignty and decomming of wonders is excessive and dangerously unfun.

[InkBlot]

For who ever wins I hope these statements will be taken to heart and if not White peace given fair terms shall rule the days.

White peace? I hope not, you reap what you sow.

[bzelger]

White peace? I hope not, you reap what you sow.

Every reaping is a new sowing.

[Vilien]

Every reaping is a new sowing.

I could not have put it better.

[ModusOperandi]

It is the hope of many on the Red Team that Karma, once and for all, breaks the shackles that have been imposed on the Cyberverse and enables other communities to flourish there; Red has been prohibited from enjoying liberty since the origin of the spheres..

[Lord Levistus]

It is the hope of many on the Red Team that Karma, once and for all, breaks the shackles that have been imposed on the Cyberverse and enables other communities to flourish there; Red has been prohibited from enjoying liberty since the origin of the spheres..

Oh yeah, darn NPO revenge doctrine allowing NONEs to have a safe place to hang out and still recieve colour trades.

[Ogaden]

Oh yeah, darn NPO revenge doctrine allowing NONEs to have a safe place to hang out and still recieve colour trades.

I believe that ModusOperandi was referring to the Moldavi Doctrine, which proclaims absolute sovereignty over the entire Red sphere and senate, and prohibits an alliance of any significant size from either basing themselves in the Red sphere or having 60% of their membership there.

This is a seperate doctrine from the Revenge Doctrine.

[Lord Levistus]

I believe that ModusOperandi was referring to the Moldavi Doctrine, which proclaims absolute sovereignty over the entire Red sphere and senate, and prohibits an alliance of any significant size from either basing themselves in the Red sphere or having 60% of their membership there.

This is a seperate doctrine from the Revenge Doctrine.

Yeah, i know he was referring to the Moldavi doctrine, but since that was enacted so very long ago, it's hardly something evil and oppressive anymore. You just base your AA on a different colour. Problem Solved.

My comment was just pointing out that his agnst regarding the Moldavi doctrine doesn't outweigh the benefit to "innocent" NONEs who take advantage of NPO's colour dominance. That same dominance that allows the revenge doctrine to exist.

Edited April 26, 2009 by Lord Levistus

[Shimmer]

Legion gave Valhalla a white peace once and got rolled within 6 months.

I'd say give them the same terms they leave on the table for fan. Come out of peace mode and fight until we say stop and then we will discuss peace terms. This is after a 11 million ns alliance has been at war for a long as I can remember and is down to 900k and Pacifica still wants to fight Fan.

That and the abolishment of both doctrines is sufficient and fair. If pacifica disagrees they are hypocrits.

Edited April 26, 2009 by TimLee

[InkBlot]

Legion gave Valhalla a white peace once and got rolled within 6 months.

I'd say give them the same terms they leave on the table for fan. Come out of peace mode and fight until we say stop and then we will discuss peace terms. This is after a 11 million ns alliance has been at war for a long as I can remember and is down to 900k and Pacifica still wants to fight.

TimLee for president everyone!