janax Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 If nothing else, this has surely given me insight into a lot of alliances I'd not dealt with much before. For that, I thank you all, it saves me a lot of time going forward. Good luck again TSO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryievla Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 MCXA had a group splinter off. I wish well of both groups. TOP are our allies through Q, and I am very glad of that. I have seldom met a classier bunch, and their responses in threads like this really bring that home. I'm not sure how being a True Paradoxian has to do with MCXA, kind of got lost on that one. But whatever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 When and how did this become about TOP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodvar Jarl Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 When and how did this become about TOP? I suppose someone felt Pacifica deserves a break? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ROMMELHSQ Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 what amazes me, Frozen, about your wall of text in which you talk about how great TOP was in it at the time (your time), that you had trolled that time period by calling TOP functionality as WAE just the post above it. The irony is killing me..... oh, and I had a tear* in my eyes when I read it. * because I was sleep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khyber Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 Can you leave now? Us adults are trying to have a discussion, and your random and childlike contributions don't exactly contribute to anything. Sad when these kinds of comments are cheered on in these forums. So many of these kinds of words and comments posted regularly throughout this thread. Such comments do not make you stand out as intellectually superior to the person you are insulting, if just shows that your an incensitive prick. Now to more important matters. As one of the guys that had to vote on this protectorate I will tell you what went through my mind. First, to me it wasn't worth sacrificing our relationship with MCXA over the new fledgeling TSO. So I wished to know what the new MCXA goverment's opinion was going to be. MCXA had a new goverment, I didn't ask how they got it, I just knew they got it. And the new leaders consisted of Dr. Fresh and Gopher (sp?). They seemed to have been informed well ahead of the GA of what was going to take place. Now I understand that the GA of MCXA may not have been fully informed, but it seemed clear to me that the leadership that were going to take the reigns were in the know. This could be wrong, but this is what I was informed. It is not TOP's responsibility to inform the GA of other alliances, nore was it the responsibility of TSO to do so, for they had stepped down from goverment and were just making sure that the transition was going to go smoothly. MCXA has a means by which they do things, and I will respect that even if it is not the way I would do things. Just like I respect the NPO and it's goverment and they are as opposite to TOP's goverment as goverments can get, for the internal membership. Lastly what none of us in TOP wanted was us to support an alliance that was recruiting from the inside. What we were informed was that internal issues was creating drama. MCXA had lost nations before this point over the past couple of months, 2 or 3 having come to TOP. I can tell you that none of us in TOP were happy to see this happen to our ally. We were lead to believe that conflicting view points were driving the alliance apart, and that the only solution that could be reached was a departure of the vocal minority from a majority that disagreed with the way they wanted to take the alliance. To me, I join an alliance not for stats, not for power, but community. When a community becomes poisonous, it is time to think about splitting. This happened. Sad, yes, but definatly nessessary, for both the long term survival of MCXA and for the individuals that now make up TSO. I do wish both our allies in the MCXA and our new protectorate TSO the best of luck. And ofcourse o/ TOP Most of you don't give a rat's behind about MCXA or TSO. Some of you wish to simply see them fall. For those that really care for those alliances, I'm sure they will support the MCXA and TSO as we are, not with words to anger and frustrate them, but with meaningful help, words of support and activitly going to the goverments of these alliances and seeing how you can help them in their time of need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwe Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 This is not a discussion about TOP. Get back on topic or this will be locked and warns handed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 No, its not. Its stupid not to make very clear that you only protect someone as long as he does not run around punching others into the face. If you don't know your allies well enough to trust them to not do that without a very good reason, why would you be allied to them? Come to that, if you don't just plain trust your allies, why in the name of all that is holy would you ally with them in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 When and how did this become about TOP? There are some people that are completely bitter towards us and want to bring up issues from the past and spin them in a manner that makes us look like horrible people. Anyone with legitimate problems with us or who simply have questions can easily come to use to discuss the issue(s), however, these people have no desire to do that. They live in their own little fantasy world where we are the bad guy, the false Paradoxians, evil manipulators, stat collectors, betrayers and the list goes on and on. This is not the first thread that these people have tried to paint us in a bad light nor will it be the last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Nadal Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) There are some people that are completely bitter towards us and want to bring up issues from the past and spin them in a manner that makes us look like horrible people. Anyone with legitimate problems with us or who simply have questions can easily come to use to discuss the issue(s), however, these people have no desire to do that. They live in their own little fantasy world where we are the bad guy, the false Paradoxians, evil manipulators, stat collectors, betrayers and the list goes on and on. This is not the first thread that these people have tried to paint us in a bad light nor will it be the last. If you're referring to myself and Vanguard, this is the only topic I know of the boards that this has ever come up in. I know that I haven't mentioned it before, and unless, I've missed it, Rev nor QTUN have mentioned it either. Secondly, I haven't put in public any of our issues with you guys, just mentioned that we did indeed have issues and our treaty is canceled. None of that is private information. Anything beyond that, such as the specific issues, has been taken to PM's already, and are still private. Edit: This will be my last post in public regarding TOP in this topic. I look forward to continuing our discussion in PM's though. Edited February 24, 2009 by Rafael Nadal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hasin Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 If you're referring to myself and Vanguard, this is the only topic I know of the boards that this has ever come up in. I know that I haven't mentioned it before, and unless, I've missed it, Rev nor QTUN have mentioned it either. Secondly, I haven't put in public any of our issues with you guys, just mentioned that we did indeed have issues and our treaty is canceled. None of that is private information. Anything beyond that, such as the specific issues, has been taken to PM's already, and are still private.Edit: This will be my last post in public regarding TOP in this topic. I look forward to continuing our discussion in PM's though. He's not talking about you guys, though we certainly have our issues with each other. Anyways that has nothing to do with this topic. I look forward to working with both MCXA and TSO, so that all three of our alliances can thrive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyNail Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 o/ TSO, congrats guys. o/ TOP a class act as always gentlemen. o/ MCXA good luck in your continuing success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyria Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 If you don't know your allies well enough to trust them to not do that without a very good reason, why would you be allied to them?Come to that, if you don't just plain trust your allies, why in the name of all that is holy would you ally with them in the first place? I really would like this answered by someone. Was TOP not expecting The Sweet Oblivion to attract this kind of attention? I'm curious. This is a rather controversial and high-profile alliance that just got formed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bodvar Jarl Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 We did anticipate drama and questions, yes. 40 pages of it was not quite what we expected though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micky Jo Harte Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 I do not hail TSO, and I do not support them. What they have done is morally wrong. But I have already told them my views on this many times. lol. See; Irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 We did anticipate drama and questions, yes. 40 pages of it was not quite what we expected though. It probably would have been more like 20-30 had Dragonaspect simply left after the OP. He just wound up tossing enough fuel on the fire that it got more than just the typical rioters interested and fed into their raving even more strongly. That said, I think any hope of legitimate discusion on the matter has been smothered by people trying to get potshots in at everything that moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keltoi Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 It probably would have been more like 20-30 had Dragonaspect simply left after the OP. He just wound up tossing enough fuel on the fire that it got more than just the typical rioters interested and fed into their raving even more strongly. That said, I think any hope of legitimate discusion on the matter has been smothered by people trying to get potshots in at everything that moves. much truth in this post, when it all settles i'd be happy to provide some insight to those who prefer substance over drama. Thanks again to TOP best of luck to MCXA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 (edited) Sad when these kinds of comments are cheered on in these forums.So many of these kinds of words and comments posted regularly throughout this thread. Such comments do not make you stand out as intellectually superior to the person you are insulting, if just shows that your an incensitive prick. Did you even bother to read his post and the post by deth2munkies, and then my later post which outlined the reasoning behind it? I doubt it, but seriously, come on. I don't think that they make me stand out as intelligently superior in any way because in fact that would not be needed because if you read his posts it becomes rather clear. As to the insensitive prick part, as I assume that is what you were saying, what was I insensitive to? His pointless post? I'm sorry I guess? Edit: I apologize for not staying on the topic but I had to reply to the point made against me. On that note since this thread is totally off, I take my leave. Edited February 24, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joque Straap Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 If you don't know your allies well enough to trust them to not do that without a very good reason, why would you be allied to them?Come to that, if you don't just plain trust your allies, why in the name of all that is holy would you ally with them in the first place? I think that's a good question to ask the Ally's of NPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted February 24, 2009 Report Share Posted February 24, 2009 It probably would have been more like 20-30 had Dragonaspect simply left after the OP. He just wound up tossing enough fuel on the fire that it got more than just the typical rioters interested and fed into their raving even more strongly. That said, I think any hope of legitimate discusion on the matter has been smothered by people trying to get potshots in at everything that moves. I wouldn't blame Dragon. This was something which was destined, it was fueling by others over IRC which increased the activity, Dragon didn't add that much to the situation, in fact, he hasn't been the center of debate for dozens of pages now. And perhaps people like myself who wont tolerate the bashing over TOP for unnecessary, irrelevent events occurring years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heft Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 Now I understand that the GA of MCXA may not have been fully informed, but it seemed clear to me that the leadership that were going to take the reigns were in the know. This could be wrong, but this is what I was informed. It is not TOP's responsibility to inform the GA of other alliances, nore was it the responsibility of TSO to do so, for they had stepped down from goverment and were just making sure that the transition was going to go smoothly. MCXA has a means by which they do things, and I will respect that even if it is not the way I would do things. Just like I respect the NPO and it's goverment and they are as opposite to TOP's goverment as goverments can get, for the internal membership. Considering TSO was MCXA government and a large chunk of MCXA leadership, it certainly was their responsibility to make sure that everything about this secession/transition went as smoothly and amicably as possible. From everything we've seen so far, they either didn't try very hard or they just made quite a few mistakes. I do agree that it wasn't TOP's responsibility, and it does seem like TOP handled the situation on their end reasonably well and there really isn't anything wrong with what you guys did. It probably would have been more like 20-30 had Dragonaspect simply left after the OP. He just wound up tossing enough fuel on the fire that it got more than just the typical rioters interested and fed into their raving even more strongly. That said, I think any hope of legitimate discusion on the matter has been smothered by people trying to get potshots in at everything that moves. Yes, for awhile this thread was going quite well. It seemed to head back downhill when people started spamming it up with the obnoxious "stop trolling!" or "omg you guys are pathetic for acting like this is important or something" posts, and then the random "let's go through TOP history and complain about everything they've ever done" multi-page tangent. Let's face it, regretting signing a treaty with Vanguard isn't exactly a shock, and seems to me like the sane response. But anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzle Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 We did anticipate drama and questions, yes. 40 pages of it was not quite what we expected though. Now, had this been a joint announcement from TSO and MCXA...yeah. I wouldn't have expected drama. Unfortunately, if you'd look at the title and the way this was handled by yourselves and TSO...I'd say it was silly not to expect 40 pages of conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 This is not a discussion about TOP. Get back on topic or this will be locked and warns handed out. The original serious post is the founding of TSO. What appears to have been intended as a co-post is from TOP announcing a treaty between TOP and TSO. This thread has more to do with TOP than it has to do with MCXA, by some standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manwe Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 The original serious post is the founding of TSO. What appears to have been intended as a co-post is from TOP announcing a treaty between TOP and TSO.This thread has more to do with TOP than it has to do with MCXA, by some standards. As a clarification, discussion about TOP as it relates to the protectorate is fine, but the completely unrelated discussion about TOP history that was going on needs to end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardus Posted February 25, 2009 Report Share Posted February 25, 2009 As a clarification, discussion about TOP as it relates to the protectorate is fine, but the completely unrelated discussion about TOP history that was going on needs to end. Okay, that's a far more reasonable request. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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