Trouble at the MCXA?

[Grinder]

You're so dismissive and superior, Grinder the NADC Applicant. It's hot.

Since I mentioned both your name and your alliance's name you won't ignore me, right? I mean, I know that you're big and important and applying and stuff, but hey. Thanks for the time, and best of luck being a big fish in the small pond that is your new alliance. Maybe you'll be the one to finally lead them out of mediocrity and irrelevance once and for all!

Oh, silly me...forgot to change my status on here last week...thanks for reminding me.

I helped lead the MCXA to a decisive military defeat of you. I don't have to prove anything else to anyone. I joined NADC because of their lack of need to be at the center of attention.

I don't understand why you and others are so intent to try and start conflicts and pissing contests when you're not even policy makers and think people have some obligation to answer to you. Your big fish/small pond comments are ironic considering you're talking to someone that had direct impact on the direction of the Ring Cycle, Continuum, and One Vision at one point with his MCXA HC vote. But even as high up the food chain as I was, I still recognize a bigger fish when I see one, and I don't pretend to be in control of things I'm not in control of. I may have helped create and lead MCXA, and had a direct impact on all of those blocs (and Bleu at one point), I would be remiss to try and assert myself as a significant figure among the senior most leaders of the alliances involved in any of those blocs.

The point is that you can run your mouth and try to talk down to me all you want. You can run your mouth about TSO all you want. You can rip on the current chancellors of MCXA if you want. You can blast the leaders of NADC and TOP if you want.

None of it matters. All of those people and myself have been in charge. With solitairy grizzeld barks and woofs we've made decisions that have shaped and molded the political map you currently find yourself trying to go yip-yip-yip in. So while I may not have ever been at the absolute pinnacle of this game, I've certainly been places you only wish you've been. And like everyone else I listed in that previous little paragraph there, I understand what it's like to be there. But you don't. So it doesn't surprise me to see that you think "applicant" status actually means anything when you have a nation over 2 years old.

But go ahead and keep talking about things you obviously are oblivious to. It just reinforces why no one you run your mouth about pays any attention to you.

However if you find yourself wishing to be educated and would like to ask a question about what exactly is going on here, feel free and I will gladly explain it to you. Who better than someone who was...oh...I dunno...there?

Have a good night.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Grinder

[OPArsenal]

Oh, silly me...forgot to change my status on here last week...thanks for reminding me.

I helped lead the MCXA to a decisive military defeat of you. I don't have to prove anything else to anyone. I joined NADC because of their lack of need to be at the center of attention.

I don't understand why you and others are so intent to try and start conflicts and pissing contests when you're not even policy makers and think people have some obligation to answer to you. Your big fish/small pond comments are ironic considering you're talking to someone that had direct impact on the direction of the Ring Cycle, Continuum, and One Vision at one point with his MCXA HC vote. But even as high up the food chain as I was, I still recognize a bigger fish when I see one, and I don't pretend to be in control of things I'm not in control of. I may have helped create and lead MCXA, and had a direct impact on all of those blocs (and Bleu at one point), I would be remiss to try and assert myself as a significant figure among the senior most leaders of the alliances involved in any of those blocs.

The point is that you can run your mouth and try to talk down to me all you want. You can run your mouth about TSO all you want. You can rip on the current chancellors of MCXA if you want. You can blast the leaders of NADC and TOP if you want.

None of it matters. All of those people and myself have been in charge. With solitairy grizzeld barks and woofs we've made decisions that have shaped and molded the political map you currently find yourself trying to go yip-yip-yip in. So while I may not have ever been at the absolute pinnacle of this game, I've certainly been places you only wish you've been. And like everyone else I listed in that previous little paragraph there, I understand what it's like to be there. But you don't. So it doesn't surprise me to see that you think "applicant" status actually means anything when you have a nation over 2 years old.

But go ahead and keep talking about things you obviously are oblivious to. It just reinforces why no one you run your mouth about pays any attention to you.

However if you find yourself wishing to be educated and would like to ask a question about what exactly is going on here, feel free and I will gladly explain it to you. Who better than someone who was...oh...I dunno...there?

Have a good night.

You sure do get worked up when irrelevant people that are new to the game like me say irrelevant things to old players like you.

What was it like to fight in the Great Patriotic War?

[Chinatownbus]

The rest of your post has been discussed to death in this thread, so I'll skip that.

TSO already knew it wasn't going to be attacked when they came to TOP. If MXCA (our MDP partner) was going to declare on them do you really think we'd step in and protect them? And you realize that MXCA is in Q, right?

And you realize that it's MCXA, not MXCA....right?

[Frozenrpg]

So, TOP did get a protectorate in place for MCXA's CEN? How delightfully ironic.

Well played, TOP, well played.

Yes... Yes... Delicious, delicious irony.

CEN and Universalis are rolling over in their graves.

Seeing as all parties involved here today were involved in either of those two debacles, you sir are correct.

and in the grave for good.

Though not sure what does Uni have to do with this....

Who are you good sir?

...Oh wait... thats right, you were around for maybe 2-3 months at most when the CEN debacle occured so you obviously knew how much time and effort those whom you persecuted had put into the alliance. Do you remember how you and those in your generation treated lynn for example? Completely and utterly disrespectfully. I certainly do hope you have changed since then seeing as you are (or where?) in government.

Just happened to be gov't during the CEN fiasco. It bears little similarity to the current topic though.

I remember sharing a handful of heated discussions with you Tony back in the day when this all transpired. These two situations? Besides some minor differences are damn near the same. But the fact is, TSO was quick on the draw to get a protector with whom no one is willing to cross (congrats on that TOP I knew you would eventually reach these heights!) and CEN was not. IIRC we at UNION were in the middle of discussing an MDP; and I know Ski and UG's wanted to stay close to TOP. Hell, we were even talking about starting a little three-way love bloc, TOP leading CEN and her protectorate at the time UNION. But shoot, some individuals could not get their head out of a certain oriface and were quite dismayed that a group would decide to leave TOP. I know the same anger was showed at other times. The first exodus when some prominent members left when we had signed the NPO MDP, Von G comes to mind along with Alaric (I believe thats who it was?) comes to mind. I also recall murmers when some such as Lemeard, Ivan, or Tachi left later on. I know your beloved grandmaster was one of those who was quite upset and angry. The two of us had a heated discussion on the old forums if you recall; and I believe it went no where. I just could not understand how one could attack those in CEN. To this day I will still support my assertation that they were some of the best damn people to come out of TOP and it was mainly jealosy that fueled such aggression.

Tony I did think you were, and I do think you still are a great guy. You were the one fighting for peace for CEN and I remember that. But you have to admit the hypocisy here is near palpable.

Switching gears, the political part of the Universalis ordeal made the CEN debacle look reletivly mild-mannered if it weren't for all the relationships that were involved.

Edited February 24, 2009 by Frozenrpg

[Joe Kremlin]

And you realize that it's MCXA, not MXCA....right?

Don't know why I mixed that up...

MXCA just felt right I guess.

[keltoi]

Not to derail the derailment of this thread but..

I'd like to thank TOP for being there for us and the current government of MCXA for understanding why we had to move on.

Best of luck to MCXA

[Lord Boris]

I helped lead the MCXA to a decisive military defeat of you. I don't have to prove anything else to anyone. I joined NADC because of their lack of need to be at the center of attention.

I don't understand why you and others are so intent to try and start conflicts and pissing contests when you're not even policy makers and think people have some obligation to answer to you. Your big fish/small pond comments are ironic considering you're talking to someone that had direct impact on the direction of the Ring Cycle, Continuum, and One Vision at one point with his MCXA HC vote. But even as high up the food chain as I was, I still recognize a bigger fish when I see one, and I don't pretend to be in control of things I'm not in control of. I may have helped create and lead MCXA, and had a direct impact on all of those blocs (and Bleu at one point), I would be remiss to try and assert myself as a significant figure among the senior most leaders of the alliances involved in any of those blocs.

Regarding the first part, MCXA was mostly useful as janitorial duty in the WotC. The other alliances in the Coalition packed firepower in far greater use. You may have helped lead MCXA during the war, but you didn't help lead them to the decisive military defeat of Polar you claim. Your associates did most of the legwork for you.

Also, your second bit there is extremely comical looking back at the second part of that first chunk. Clearly your personality is not a good match with NADC as an alliance.

And I'll finish with just a friendly warning. It usually isn't a great idea to get into, as you call them, 'pissing contests' with OPArsenal. Especially if he's had something to drink, he's likely able to keep on in the contest while you're trying to down a glass of water to try catching up.

[King Srqt]

Oh, silly me...forgot to change my status on here last week...thanks for reminding me.

I helped lead the MCXA to a decisive military defeat of you. I don't have to prove anything else to anyone. I joined NADC because of their lack of need to be at the center of attention.

I don't understand why you and others are so intent to try and start conflicts and pissing contests when you're not even policy makers and think people have some obligation to answer to you. Your big fish/small pond comments are ironic considering you're talking to someone that had direct impact on the direction of the Ring Cycle, Continuum, and One Vision at one point with his MCXA HC vote. But even as high up the food chain as I was, I still recognize a bigger fish when I see one, and I don't pretend to be in control of things I'm not in control of. I may have helped create and lead MCXA, and had a direct impact on all of those blocs (and Bleu at one point), I would be remiss to try and assert myself as a significant figure among the senior most leaders of the alliances involved in any of those blocs.

The point is that you can run your mouth and try to talk down to me all you want. You can run your mouth about TSO all you want. You can rip on the current chancellors of MCXA if you want. You can blast the leaders of NADC and TOP if you want.

None of it matters. All of those people and myself have been in charge. With solitairy grizzeld barks and woofs we've made decisions that have shaped and molded the political map you currently find yourself trying to go yip-yip-yip in. So while I may not have ever been at the absolute pinnacle of this game, I've certainly been places you only wish you've been. And like everyone else I listed in that previous little paragraph there, I understand what it's like to be there. But you don't. So it doesn't surprise me to see that you think "applicant" status actually means anything when you have a nation over 2 years old.

But go ahead and keep talking about things you obviously are oblivious to. It just reinforces why no one you run your mouth about pays any attention to you.

However if you find yourself wishing to be educated and would like to ask a question about what exactly is going on here, feel free and I will gladly explain it to you. Who better than someone who was...oh...I dunno...there?

Have a good night.

First OPA > you so get off your high horse.

Second you helped lead MCXA's military in the WoTC? so what? I think citadel R&R fark and the 12 million other alliances might have helped out a bit. if no MCXA members showed up for the war the coalition still would have won so umm congrats i guess.

and again OPA > you and he has been around longer than you and you are not very good at this.

[Neuromancer7]

Oh right...

NOW I remember why I stopped reading the forums. For those of you, which I believe to be most, incapable of connecting the dots, I apologize for my inability to explain Exactly what I think of you, but there are certain standards of decency that should be maintained by someone.

If only disgust could be bottled and a market found, then I and all the other sensible people around here could make a fortune every time the Yapping Dog Brigade jumps into a thread in full force.

[Fallen Fool]

and again OPA > you and he has been around longer than you and you are not very good at this.

tbh Srqt, this sentence didn't make much sense.

Also OPA's been around since before GWI which, unless Grinder is a reroll I don't know about, is a lot longer.

[Grinder]

First OPA > you so get off your high horse.

Second you helped lead MCXA's military in the WoTC? so what? I think citadel R&R fark and the 12 million other alliances might have helped out a bit. if no MCXA members showed up for the war the coalition still would have won so umm congrats i guess.

and again OPA > you and he has been around longer than you and you are not very good at this.

Clearly, you're not noticing that I never claimed to lead any of the other alliances involved to victory. Their leaders led them to victory. I only laid claim to helping lead MCXA to victory. They did their parts and did them well, as did MCXA and its leaders.

OPA may have been around longer, but that doesn't make me a newb or change the fact that I've contributed more to the MCXA than he has to his alliance.

OPA: did I claim to fight in the Patriotic War? No. Why? Because I didn't fight in it. Why not? Because I was not in an alliance involved in that conflict and can mind my own business.

Boris: what? Wanna try again? Did you just equate a pissing contest with a drinking contest? Come on man...keep the bathroom humor out of this.

All 3 of you: if you want to continue making a scene about this, bring it to IRC. I'm not hard to find. Maybe you all yelling at a wall in a chat client will save the rest of us from oblivious people trying to comment on things they know nothing about in public. Were any of you around the discussions or events that caused all this? No? thanks for proving my point. Mind your own business and walk away. Just because something is publicly posted doesn't mean it needs your "expert" commentary, it's just an FYI.

[AlmightyGrub]

Clearly, you're not noticing that I never claimed to lead any of the other alliances involved to victory. Their leaders led them to victory. I only laid claim to helping lead MCXA to victory. They did their parts and did them well, as did MCXA and its leaders.

OPA may have been around longer, but that doesn't make me a newb or change the fact that I've contributed more to the MCXA than he has to his alliance.

OPA: did I claim to fight in the Patriotic War? No. Why? Because I didn't fight in it. Why not? Because I was not in an alliance involved in that conflict and can mind my own business.

Boris: what? Wanna try again? Did you just equate a pissing contest with a drinking contest? Come on man...keep the bathroom humor out of this.

All 3 of you: if you want to continue making a scene about this, bring it to IRC. I'm not hard to find. Maybe you all yelling at a wall in a chat client will save the rest of us from oblivious people trying to comment on things they know nothing about in public. Were any of you around the discussions or events that caused all this? No? thanks for proving my point. Mind your own business and walk away. Just because something is publicly posted doesn't mean it needs your "expert" commentary, it's just an FYI.

Leading a pack of opportunist vultures to roadkill is not a claim to fame for future reference. I am glad you have left MCXA to assist NADC with their revision of history, it further sanitizes an alliance who has climbed 999 rungs on my respect ladder in recent days.

[Denial]

It is an honor to sign an MDP with TOP, it is one of the highest bonding holds in CN.

Really? I would like to direct your attention to this admission, made by the current Grand Hospitaller, just one month ago. Call me handsomely cynical, but I would not place too much reliance on a group that votes on whether to honour an obligational and legally-binding document. An unfortunate result at the polls and TSO could find themselves with no protection!

Secondly. Main difference between CEN and TSO situation is that MCXA would not have killed TSO, even if we had not granted them protectorate. New MCXA government has accepted fact that TSO members are leaving, and that they cannot remain part of MCXA any more. They would not have been attack, persecuted or considered traitors to the MCXA. Some people do still harbor resentment as can be observed in this thread, but for those that actually bother reading posts you can tell that vast majority of the drama in this thread is from people who are not members of MCXA. I noticed only a few real MCXA members who were really upset over the situation.

Now, this is certainly intriguing. According to your post, the primary difference between the CEN and TSO situations, and thus the very core of your justification for TOP bequeathing TSO with protection, is simply that MCXA were allegedly not looking for retribution, whereas TOP would pursue and systematically annihilate a similar splinter alliance. Do you not see that this is half of the reason why “hypocrisy” and “TOP” are two words that have been consistently linked throughout this discussion? For if this situation was reversed, TOP would hold no qualms in obliterating the newly-formed off-shoot, but today is more than happy to grant impunity to a collection of leaders and high-ranking members that abandoned their alliance - an ally of TOP's, I might add - that openly admit to recruiting from said alliance in a manner that was detrimental to continued stability and success.

I was certain to place "allegedly" in the above paragraph, in regards to MCXA looking to reprimand the members of TSO for their flagrant and highly public disregard of sovereignty, for reasons that have already been adequately explained by Gairyuki:

And, finally, I have an issue with saying that MCXA was never going to bring up charges on TSO. The presence of TOP is enough of a deterrent, so much so that I'm sure MCXA immediately threw away any notion of revenge the second they found out TOP was protecting TSO. Or perhaps they were so damn depleted of leadership that charging their former alliance mates with treason was simply not an option, not because friendship between the alliances exists, but because there are no means of prosecuting any TSO member for crimes. Especially when they've got several beatsticks who go by names like TOP, Citadel, Continuum, ect ect.

It gives TSO a protective umbrella to rest under while they organize themselves internally and figure out what TSO is really going to be without having to worry about foreign aggressors taking advantage of what is essentially a naturally vulnerable state.

Given that TSO possessed adequate time to draft plans and strategies for alternate methods of abandoning their alliance, to organise sanctuary behind the shield of an alliance with high levels of both hard and soft diplomatic power, and to recruit additional MCXA members to their cause - all facts that have been admitted by TSO within this discussion - I would say they had more than enough time to "organize themselves internally" and "figure out what TSO is really going to be".

Unnecessarily harsh dude.

Actually, Bob's commentary is spot-on, considering how glaringly obvious and pitiful watchman's attempts are at both spin and diversion.

[Steve Buscemi]

I think I deserve a protectorate for just managing to read this whole thread.

[Bellisus]

34 pages! Really? Wow, people must really have a boner for trolling these days.

[Proko]

Oh, silly me...forgot to change my status on here last week...thanks for reminding me.

I helped lead the MCXA to a decisive military defeat of you. I don't have to prove anything else to anyone. I joined NADC because of their lack of need to be at the center of attention.

I don't understand why you and others are so intent to try and start conflicts and pissing contests when you're not even policy makers and think people have some obligation to answer to you. Your big fish/small pond comments are ironic considering you're talking to someone that had direct impact on the direction of the Ring Cycle, Continuum, and One Vision at one point with his MCXA HC vote. But even as high up the food chain as I was, I still recognize a bigger fish when I see one, and I don't pretend to be in control of things I'm not in control of. I may have helped create and lead MCXA, and had a direct impact on all of those blocs (and Bleu at one point), I would be remiss to try and assert myself as a significant figure among the senior most leaders of the alliances involved in any of those blocs.

Deep in our inner sanctuary, where the government of Polaris meets every night at midnight, there is one name we do not utter. We remember, with bitter hatred, the massive destruction of our alliance and all we could have done to have prevent, how victory was all but in our grasp and then...Grinder! For sooth, were it not for this stalwart warrior, our forces of evil would have reigned supreme in our effort to entirely exterminate the world! Your name, and your name alone, remained etched into the very fabric of our memories, as the mastermind - nay - the genius! who foiled our most carefully laid plans. With your army of champions (including what we Dark Lords call "The Valiant 60 Electors") you bested our best and defeated our undefeated.

[Chickenzilla]

Deep in our inner sanctuary, where the government of Polaris meets every night at midnight, there is one name we do not utter. We remember, with bitter hatred, the massive destruction of our alliance and all we could have done to have prevent, how victory was all but in our grasp and then...Grinder! For sooth, were it not for this stalwart warrior, our forces of evil would have reigned supreme in our effort to entirely exterminate the world! Your name, and your name alone, remained etched into the very fabric of our memories, as the mastermind - nay - the genius! who foiled our most carefully laid plans. With your army of champions (including what we Dark Lords call "The Valiant 60 Electors") you bested our best and defeated our undefeated.

This made me giggle, so I quoted it.

Also you lost GWI

[youwish959]

This made me giggle, so I quoted it.

Also you lost GWI

They also won GW II GW III and UJW.

[Starfox101]

This isn't even that interesting.

Celt is cool, I guess.

[Chickenzilla]

They also won GW II GW III and UJW.

This is true. I do me some Polaris and ex Polaris /me looks at FF, Mori, Mercy, myworld, sigma, szezine, grub, assypoo, hannah, firefox, dajobo, Ski, and all the rest of you. <3

[Bodvar Jarl]

Really? I would like to direct your attention to this admission, made by the current Grand Hospitaller, just one month ago. Call me handsomely cynical, but I would not place too much reliance on a group that votes on whether to honour an obligational and legally-binding document. An unfortunate result at the polls and TSO could find themselves with no protection!

No difference between that and the MHA trium or Moo deciding to not uphold a treaty, there are very few alliances that does not have some form of mechanism that can be used to waive treaty obligations. It is a question of trusting that those mechanisms will work as promised.

Now, this is certainly intriguing. According to your post, the primary difference between the CEN and TSO situations, and thus the very core of your justification for TOP bequeathing TSO with protection, is simply that MCXA were allegedly not looking for retribution, whereas TOP would pursue and systematically annihilate a similar splinter alliance.

The key condition was that MCXA (incoming gov) had no objections towards us granting them a protectorate. CEN's problem was that they just packed their things and left, leaving us to uncover the details of what transpired after it happened, that was a major factor in our decision way back then.

Do you not see that this is half of the reason why “hypocrisy” and “TOP” are two words that have been consistently linked throughout this discussion?

I can see why the uninformed, the bored and the malicious are typing those words, yes.

For if this situation was reversed, TOP would hold no qualms in obliterating the newly-formed off-shoot, but today is more than happy to grant impunity to a collection of leaders and high-ranking members that abandoned their alliance - an ally of TOP's, I might add - that openly admit to recruiting from said alliance in a manner that was detrimental to continued stability and success.

We had our qualms concerning CEN, it was not a decision taken lightly, but it was the right decision to make, it is possible that another splinter from TOP would be treated the same way, or we could have decided to let it go, it all depends on the circumstances. Yes, MCXA could have reacted in a similar fashion as we did, and if so, we would right now be horrible allies and hypocrites. They did not, and that is what matters.

Given that TSO possessed adequate time to draft plans and strategies for alternate methods of abandoning their alliance, to organise sanctuary behind the shield of an alliance with high levels of both hard and soft diplomatic power, and to recruit additional MCXA members to their cause - all facts that have been admitted by TSO within this discussion - I would say they had more than enough time to "organize themselves internally" and "figure out what TSO is really going to be".

TOP doesn't give MDP's to brand new alliances, period, thus we went for a short term protectorate, in a month, TSO will likely have managed to establish themselves as an entity that we and others can establish more permanent agreements with. 2mill is nothing in CN if you are alone.

For the rest, yes, it obviously could have been handled better, that doesn't suggest that it will not work out in the end, and that is what matters.

[raasaa]

Government and membership. There was an amendment proposed right before this happened, guess who was all opposed to it?

The current TSO members ?

I helped lead the MCXA to a decisive military defeat of you. I don't have to prove anything else to anyone.

:lol:

One govt member says that only 60~80 members are active in MCXA.....now you say that you lead them to a decisive victory.....adding the two statements.....you lead mcxa (60 members) to a decisive victory against Polar (500+ members).....

Edited February 24, 2009 by raasaa

[hizzy]

Boris: what? Wanna try again? Did you just equate a pissing contest with a drinking contest? Come on man...keep the bathroom humor out of this.

Maybe it's cause I'm in med school that I know these things.... but in order to piss in a pissing contest, you need to first drink something. You see, the way the body works is that the kidneys filter out different material in the blood, and get rid of excess water in the body. By drinking more fluids, you increase the levels of fluid in the body, thus filtering out more fluid through the kidney, which leads to filling up your bladder, and when it finally reaches a certain volume, it is evacuating out your urethra and into a toilet, or a tree, or some chick if you're into that sort of thing.

What Lord Boris was saying is that should you find yourself in a pissing contest with OPA, he would keep on pissing while you run dry and have to "reload". It was a a joke, extending on the analogy which you made earlier. I hope this clears up any confusion.

[SleepiB]

Regarding the first part, MCXA was mostly useful as janitorial duty in the WotC. The other alliances in the Coalition packed firepower in far greater use. You may have helped lead MCXA during the war, but you didn't help lead them to the decisive military defeat of Polar you claim. Your associates did most of the legwork for you.

MCXA killed 1/5 of the top 50 targets, from of a coalition of seven alliances.

Totally useless

[hertugen]

Maybe it's cause I'm in med school that I know these things.... but in order to piss in a pissing contest, you need to first drink something. You see, the way the body works is that the kidneys filter out different material in the blood, and get rid of excess water in the body. By drinking more fluids, you increase the levels of fluid in the body, thus filtering out more fluid through the kidney, which leads to filling up your bladder, and when it finally reaches a certain volume, it is evacuating out your urethra and into a toilet, or a tree, or some chick if you're into that sort of thing.

What Lord Boris was saying is that should you find yourself in a pissing contest with OPA, he would keep on pissing while you run dry and have to "reload". It was a a joke, extending on the analogy which you made earlier. I hope this clears up any confusion.

Have my babies?

And, yes, without the mighty MCXA, Polaris would TOTALLY win the last war...