Producers vs Parasites 2: Types of Nations

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I didn't know I was their fan. News to me. I'm your fan, a much much smaller fan club I realize. But I'm here for you, not them.  :popcorn: 
 
"X can't find the Declare War button" first used by you? You're a trailblazer Tywin.
Althoughhhhhh .... It's actually been used before. Doitzel beat you to it.
 
You're so 2009.  :v:

"You're trying way to hard!" :v:

 

But to be fair, you're probably defending your friends in the GPA in this case who you play with over in TE.

[CubaQuerida]

Allow me to retort in picture form:

 

[Daenerys Targaryen]

You are completely clueless about what actually happened.

 

Where exactly am i wrong? You both signed the NAP about a week after the Disorder war had reached peace and FEAR was used to broker the peace. Please do explain what is inaccurate about that comment.

 

The only inaccurate post I've seen regrading those events have been by IRON members and I'm not the only one who has pointed that out.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Daenerys Targaryen

[Starfox101]

That's not true.  The fallout from inaction is far worse than losing stats in a war where you are at least fighting for ideals.  A wise man once said "Even if you can't win you should do the best you can to damage your enemy".  

 

I was speaking philosophically regarding opposition.  Obviously those who physically oppose us are handled with brute force and usually an overwhelming amount.  

I agree. The proof will be Valhalla post-war.

 

Azaghul my old friend, I will point out that WHILE your newfound BFFs in NpO were being raided by DBDC, your alliance signed a NAP with them. I dedicated an entire thread last war to pointing out the statistical ability of Platysphere to take down what, at that time, were 13 DBDC nations. The resounding responses from the Centurius' and Dajobos and Chefjoes and Voodoos and Chimaera's of the world were basically "Rush you are the crazy elephant guy, and you just want us to throw away our statistics to take down DBDC because you think it will turn this war around." Your entire sphere chose the path of inaction to deal with DBDC, all the while defending that choice. TOP signed a NAP so they could look at Polar during future raids and say "look bro, we cannot help you, sorry."

 

During the second raid on Polar, DBDC had 1 nation on the AA (it was Caliph) who was JUST outside the top 250. He had 0 backup. Polar could updeclared on him, drug him down and held him a ransom to force a NAP or something similar with DBDC, instead, all the Polar nations he raided, peaced out the raid. DBDC are where they are right now, not due to anything underhanded, but simply due to the fact that Platysphere, when Ardus left this world, had zero backbone, and had 0 leadership that possessed ANY sort of vision. YOu find yourselves neutered now by superior play from DBDC, and you can find the culprits behind this by simply finding a mirror and looking in it.

Well that's probably because everybody loves Caliph.

 

Shah has not been in IRON government for nearly a year.

 

You are completely clueless about what actually happened.

 

It's almost as if we both recognized this and made a strategic move to prevent it.

 

Signing a treaty of any sort, in one way or another, was done to preserve stats to an extent. Whether it was the sole intended purpose for the treaty or not is irrelevant. It is as much of a guarantee that you will not come to blows with that alliance as there exists in this world. Here is the most pertinent excerpt from your own treaty with TOP, the Frozen Hell Accords, that you claim was signed only to "eliminate others stats":

 

It means the exact same thing as the NAP clause in our treaty with DBDC. 

 

In any case, why do you get to unilaterally decide why DBDC and IRON signed a treaty? How do you know that we didn't sign with DBDC to "eliminate others stats" as well? The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

I think you are remembering something incorrectly. TOP declared war on IRON. 

Again, that last line is exactly what I said. You targeted IRON but didn't even have the gall to declare on them personally. You hit their direct allies with the explicit intent of drawing them in. The TOP treaty was signed with the intent to go on the warpath and target NPO/NG/NSO/Etc whoever you want to claim the target of the last war was. Proof of that is us starting an offensive war a few months after it was signed. That is different than a treaty that was signed because you didn't want your top tier getting damaged. There's no point in arguing semantics such as our treaty containing a non-aggression clause, as that is incredibly standard in every treaty. Literally every treaty. That has zero bearing on the intent behind a treaty. DBDC allying with the largest power to counter their top-tier was a brilliant move for them. It allowed them to destroy the rest of our top tiers. Fortunately for us, DBDC is no longer our problem. We have a single nation above 100k.
That top tier will eventually become so clogged with DBDC allies that someone is going to have to be cut off. Look at the history of CN politics. It is cyclical. It's either going to be you, or NPO. Both of you are skilled political alliances, so I'll watch with eagerness.

 

In the meantime, keep building that midtier. You guys are a wanted alliance by both sides of this war. Polar/TOP mistakes ensured your continued survival on the top, but with this defeat we are knocked down the totem pole.

[JohnGulager]

That top tier will eventually become so clogged with DBDC allies that someone is going to have to be cut off. Look at the history of CN politics. It is cyclical. It's either going to be you, or NPO. Both of you are skilled political alliances, so I'll watch with eagerness.

 

In the meantime, keep building that midtier. You guys are a wanted alliance by both sides of this war. Polar/TOP mistakes ensured your continued survival on the top, but with this defeat we are knocked down the totem pole.

 

Doombirds will eat the neutrals first, gonna be a great show

[Starfox101]

Yeah, but who cares about that? The only thing worth watching there are the ratios DBDC put up on neutrals that haven't even logged in.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Ignore the IRON lawyers, they'll never have the back bone to own the truth. They must think they can still save their reputation.

 

Doombirds eating more neutrals you mean. ^_^ Depends if GPA can find the "Declare War" button, the Doombirds might need all their lap dogs for this show. :popcorn:

Edited January 2, 2015 by Daenerys Targaryen

[Daenerys Targaryen]

I agree. The proof will be Valhalla post-war.

 

Well that's probably because everybody loves Caliph.

 

Again, that last line is exactly what I said. You targeted IRON but didn't even have the gall to declare on them personally. You hit their direct allies with the explicit intent of drawing them in. The TOP treaty was signed with the intent to go on the warpath and target NPO/NG/NSO/Etc whoever you want to claim the target of the last war was. Proof of that is us starting an offensive war a few months after it was signed. That is different than a treaty that was signed because you didn't want your top tier getting damaged. There's no point in arguing semantics such as our treaty containing a non-aggression clause, as that is incredibly standard in every treaty. Literally every treaty. That has zero bearing on the intent behind a treaty. DBDC allying with the largest power to counter their top-tier was a brilliant move for them. It allowed them to destroy the rest of our top tiers. Fortunately for us, DBDC is no longer our problem. We have a single nation above 100k.
That top tier will eventually become so clogged with DBDC allies that someone is going to have to be cut off. Look at the history of CN politics. It is cyclical. It's either going to be you, or NPO. Both of you are skilled political alliances, so I'll watch with eagerness.

 

In the meantime, keep building that midtier. You guys are a wanted alliance by both sides of this war. Polar/TOP mistakes ensured your continued survival on the top, but with this defeat we are knocked down the totem pole.

It won't be IRON next, they're better at licking boots than NPO.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

just going to throw this out there.

 

i have no respect for cuba, but most other of the top ten nations i do.

 

i did battle for dbdc in seers of doom, they told us we would get paid for our part. i remember being dam near broke and still having to send out my last bit of tech to them before even getting  a aid package back.

 

the only member of dbdc thats is a good person and has helped me is bones.  hes been a good freind and been helping me since me and him started talking.

 

being a member of the doom shpere has gotten me nuked, lost alot of pixels for nothing really.  and for them to even have the bio they do just shows they are full of bs.      no one wants to be hit by cuba or pilsmania or any doom bird.have you seen the damage.  pax corvus's leader was like almost 300k before cuba, then after cuba down to 100k. anyone who will stand up agianst cuba gets crushed if its not by him its by someone else.

 

and if anyone nation was to attack cuba he would have three nations pull your card basiclly. thats not even a fair fight.in anyway.

 

but that saying seeing what hes achieved is almost remarkable. hes created a sphere of people like him. power hungry doom riechers. sometimes i fear for myself. not to mention this...  but lets face it tywinn we all got a problem,

So pretty much what Tywin is talking about in the OP. You do realize their fan boy club doesn't like anyone that tells the truth about DBDC's immoral behavior, i wonder if they'll attack an ex-DBDC member who saw first hand what they do. Probably..

[Azaghul]

Azaghul my old friend, I will point out that WHILE your newfound BFFs in NpO were being raided by DBDC, your alliance signed a NAP with them. I dedicated an entire thread last war to pointing out the statistical ability of Platysphere to take down what, at that time, were 13 DBDC nations. The resounding responses from the Centurius' and Dajobos and Chefjoes and Voodoos and Chimaera's of the world were basically "Rush you are the crazy elephant guy, and you just want us to throw away our statistics to take down DBDC because you think it will turn this war around." Your entire sphere chose the path of inaction to deal with DBDC, all the while defending that choice. TOP signed a NAP so they could look at Polar during future raids and say "look bro, we cannot help you, sorry."

 

During the second raid on Polar, DBDC had 1 nation on the AA (it was Caliph) who was JUST outside the top 250. He had 0 backup. Polar could updeclared on him, drug him down and held him a ransom to force a NAP or something similar with DBDC, instead, all the Polar nations he raided, peaced out the raid. DBDC are where they are right now, not due to anything underhanded, but simply due to the fact that Platysphere, when Ardus left this world, had zero backbone, and had 0 leadership that possessed ANY sort of vision. YOu find yourselves neutered now by superior play from DBDC, and you can find the culprits behind this by simply finding a mirror and looking in it.

If I had lead NpO I probably would have done something like that.  Though I can see why they didn't if they saw it as bait to try to trigger a larger war.

 

TOP and NpO made mistakes.  Not least of which was letting the war be dragged on by going along with people wanting those terms on NPO.  But you are trying to spin this all as somehow a DBDC vs. TOP/NpO.  A clever red herring, but fundamentally has little relevance to what I'm saying because there is far more going on than some some kind of TOP/NpO vs DBDC rivalry.

 

For one, DBDC has raided far more than just NpO or its allies, and the goals it like to tout involve far more than just NpO/TOP's sphere.  For example the decision to attack a small neutral like Pax Corvus, rather than a large neutral like WTF or GPA, has nothing to do with NpO or TOP.

 

Second, I don't care very much that TOP has been "neutered" by DBDC.  TOP has only 5 nations in the top 250.  Including one which is useless dead weight I would be happy to see attacked and if it were up to me would have been kicked from TOP a year ago. It's very unlikely that I'm personally ever going to be even close to the top 250, especially after this war.  I like to war too much.  If you think I'm saying all this just to tote the party line for TOP, you are wrong.

[Canik]

Where exactly am i wrong? You both signed the NAP about a week after the Disorder war had reached peace and FEAR was used to broker the peace. Please do explain what is inaccurate about that comment.

 

The only inaccurate post I've seen regrading those events have been by IRON members and I'm not the only one who has pointed that out.

IRON wasn't scrambling to save their top tier, although it would have made a lot of sense considering at the time they had very shaky relations with both NPO sphere and NpO sphere, and no one else was doing much to stop DBDC. Still, they did not come asking us to mediate. FEAR took the initiative in that matter. Neither of them were terribly eager, but once they started talking and realized they had many common friends, common enemies, and both would benefit.. then yeah, they signed a NAP.

Edited January 2, 2015 by Big Ego

[Generalchow]

Allow me to retort in picture form:

 

I want to tear Mister Black down again but Bones won't let me :(

[Rayvon]

"You're trying way to hard!" :v:
 
But to be fair, you're probably defending your friends in the GPA in this case who you play with over in TE.

 
Mmmm. No. Doesn't matter who you're talkin about. Could have been talking about VE and my post would have the same legs. 
 
 

Depends if GPA can find the "Declare War" button

3x in two pages.

[The Warrior]

Again, that last line is exactly what I said. You targeted IRON but didn't even have the gall to declare on them personally. You hit their direct allies with the explicit intent of drawing them in. 

I'm assuming that you misspoke here and meant to say targeted TOP. In any case, it's no secret that by declaring on Sparta it was going to be a possibility that we would end up fighting TOP as well, but asserting that "IRON waited to attack TOP until a coalition was built in our favor" isn't a valid argument in this case considering that we did not attack TOP.

 

The TOP treaty was signed with the intent to go on the warpath and target NPO/NG/NSO/Etc whoever you want to claim the target of the last war was. Proof of that is us starting an offensive war a few months after it was signed. That is different than a treaty that was signed because you didn't want your top tier getting damaged. There's no point in arguing semantics such as our treaty containing a non-aggression clause, as that is incredibly standard in every treaty. Literally every treaty. That has zero bearing on the intent behind a treaty. 

I get that the TOP/NpO treaty was one born of convenience and mutual benefit given the fact that you wanted to take shots at the NPO/NG sphere. I fully believe that to be the case. Everyone at the time knew what it was. My point was that whether you admit it or not, signing any treaty is on some level a way to preserve pixels.

 

You continually claim that the only reason DBDC and IRON signed a treaty is because we didn't want our top tiers getting damaged. I'm telling you that that wasn't the motivating factor behind the signing. Of course you won't recognize that there actually might have been another reason for us because it doesn't suit your agenda.

[Daenerys Targaryen]

IRON wasn't scrambling to save their top tier, although it would have made a lot of sense considering at the time they had very shaky relations with both NPO sphere and NpO sphere, and no one else was doing much to stop DBDC. Still, they did not come asking us to mediate. FEAR took the initiative in that matter. Neither of them were terribly eager, but once they started talking and realized they had many common friends, common enemies, and both would benefit.. then yeah, they signed a NAP.

I still don't see where i was wrong.

 

 
Mmmm. No. Doesn't matter who you're talkin about. Could have been talking about VE and my post would have the same legs. 
 
 

3x in two pages.

Seriously, whats even the point of any of your post? It brings absolutely nothing to the current discussion or were you just after some attention.

 

And look out for more of those too, I'm going to try to make it a daily statement since it clearly up sets you so much. :smug:

 

 

I'm assuming that you misspoke here and meant to say targeted TOP. In any case, it's no secret that by declaring on Sparta it was going to be a possibility that we would end up fighting TOP as well, but asserting that "IRON waited to attack TOP until a coalition was built in our favor" isn't a valid argument in this case considering that we did not attack TOP.

 

I get that the TOP/NpO treaty was one born of convenience and mutual benefit given the fact that you wanted to take shots at the NPO/NG sphere. I fully believe that to be the case. Everyone at the time knew what it was. My point was that whether you admit it or not, signing any treaty is on some level a way to preserve pixels.

 

You continually claim that the only reason DBDC and IRON signed a treaty is because we didn't want our top tiers getting damaged. I'm telling you that that wasn't the motivating factor behind the signing. Of course you won't recognize that there actually might have been another reason for us because it doesn't suit your agenda.

pfft, more of the some, this time its "we didn't want our top tiers getting damaged". There was only going to be one side losing their top tier and it wasn't DBDC's.

[Starfox101]

I'm assuming that you misspoke here and meant to say targeted TOP. In any case, it's no secret that by declaring on Sparta it was going to be a possibility that we would end up fighting TOP as well, but asserting that "IRON waited to attack TOP until a coalition was built in our favor" isn't a valid argument in this case considering that we did not attack TOP.

 

I get that the TOP/NpO treaty was one born of convenience and mutual benefit given the fact that you wanted to take shots at the NPO/NG sphere. I fully believe that to be the case. Everyone at the time knew what it was. My point was that whether you admit it or not, signing any treaty is on some level a way to preserve pixels.

 

You continually claim that the only reason DBDC and IRON signed a treaty is because we didn't want our top tiers getting damaged. I'm telling you that that wasn't the motivating factor behind the signing. Of course you won't recognize that there actually might have been another reason for us because it doesn't suit your agenda.

 

 

Given all the bravado in the TOP declaration of war, and the commentary in the topic, a TOP fight was clearly wanted. I don't see what point you are arguing. It's no secret what IRON has done to avoid getting a beatdown. If you truly had it out for TOP you would have came for them last war.

 

Also, stating every treaty is signed to preserve pixels (A very, very IRON thing to say) is still incorrect. Polar and TOP are not exactly known for preserving pixels. You also stated preserving pixels wasn't the reasoning behind the IRON treaty...but it is in every treaty? Stop dancing circles - literally everybody in the world knows why it was signed but you're here playing obtuse.

[Rayvon]

Seriously, whats even the point of any of your post? It brings absolutely nothing to the current discussion or were you just after some attention.
 
And look out for more of those too, I'm going to try to make it a daily statement since it clearly up sets you so much. :smug:

X can't find the declare war button over and over offers nothing. Whining about fan boys offers nothing. Seriously, what's even the point of any of your posts?

 

It does. I'm madddddd.  :lol1:

(and bored, yay retirement)

[Mister black]

okay, i retract my last statement.   it has been editted.

 

 

 

and for chow. lets go six months down the line. give me a fair chance then ill show you who not to fuck with.

[shahenshah]

 
 
Given all the bravado in the TOP declaration of war, and the commentary in the topic, a TOP fight was clearly wanted. I don't see what point you are arguing. It's no secret what IRON has done to avoid getting a beatdown. If you truly had it out for TOP you would have came for them last war.
 
Also, stating every treaty is signed to preserve pixels (A very, very IRON thing to say) is still incorrect. Polar and TOP are not exactly known for preserving pixels. You also stated preserving pixels wasn't the reasoning behind the IRON treaty...but it is in every treaty? Stop dancing circles - literally everybody in the world knows why it was signed but you're here playing obtuse.

LOL, TOP is doing exactly that, preserving their pixels and doing a token defense and they have a consistent habit of doing this in every war but one. They'll peace out one or the other half of the alliance for entire war duration, youd pick on Berber for stating facts, but his statements stand proven right in front you. TOP has been nothing but a political liability to you past few months and now, they've shown how useless they are to you even in war. TOP signed that treaty a month after they were ready to get on board to roll you, that didnt pan out and they needed another platform to wage war and they found you willing. That treaty was of pure convenience and real politik. And that is showing today as they fight with 25% of thier nations. You're lucky to have friends in FARK and Sparta and some of SNX.
@Azaghul, TOP didn't put terms for others, you had your own stake in it, TOP has a very very consistent history of putting terms and reps on every front they've won in past few wars. Edited January 3, 2015 by shahenshah

[Daenerys Targaryen]

X can't find the declare war button over and over offers nothing. Whining about fan boys offers nothing. Seriously, what's even the point of any of your posts?

 

It does. I'm madddddd.  :lol1:

(and bored, yay retirement)

The whinning fan boys are the first to bring nothing so why should anything of value be returned? Ask yourself that.  I too can throw mud by returning pointless rhetoric.

 

As for X GPA not being able to find the "Declare War" button. Latest update: After 7 long, grueling and destructive days, one of their nations have finally found that elusive button.

 

Burn them to the ground GPA! :gun: Your time to shine. :popcorn:

Edited January 3, 2015 by Daenerys Targaryen

[Daenerys Targaryen]

okay, i retract my last statement.   it has been editted.

 

 

 

and for chow. lets go six months down the line. give me a fair chance then ill show you who not to $%&@ with.

Don't worry, we all saw what you said and it won't be forgotten anytime soon. :p

 

 

LOL, TOP is doing exactly that, preserving their pixels and doing a token defense and they have a consistent habit of doing this in every war but one. They'll peace out one or the other half of the alliance for entire war duration, youd pick on Berber for stating facts, but his statements stand proven right in front you. TOP has been nothing but a political liability to you past few months and now, they've shown how useless they are to you even in war. TOP signed that treaty a month after they were ready to get on board to roll you, that didnt pan out and they needed another platform to wage war and they found you willing. That treaty was of pure convenience and real politik. And that is showing today as they fight with 25% of thier nations. You're lucky to have friends in FARK and Sparta and some of SNX.

In my experience, attacking those who state facts is the only way most of the CN politicians on your side know how to respond. Just look at Mister Black's full back pedal over his factual comments after DBDC's fanboy club got called in. ^_^

[Daenerys Targaryen]

for future refernce refer to last post. 

 

 

 

 

sorry for the inconveince dbdc. sorry for being a dick!

 

and sorry to cuba and bones.

 

 

 

 

0/ doom riech

Why apologize for speaking the truth? Its them who should apologize to you for putting you through all that and using you so they could benefit and not you. The least they can do now is pay you back.

[Canik]

I still don't see where i was wrong.

Please explain then, how IRON used FEAR to get peace.. did they contact us? Did they sign with us after we signed with DBDC?

What's your point anyway, if it's not that IRON was trying to save it's upper tier (and then 'used' FEAR to get peace)..

[Daenerys Targaryen]

Please explain then, how IRON used FEAR to get peace.. did they contact us? Did they sign with us after we signed with DBDC?

What's your point anyway, if it's not that IRON was trying to save it's upper tier (and then 'used' FEAR to get peace)..

You already confirmed FEAR brokered the peace which was my main point. Whether or not IRON or DBDC used FEAR to do it doesn't matter, those are just small irrelevant tedious errors on my part or my sources, and are only taken advantage of so you could discredit entire accusation. Well the IRON members were trying too anyway.

 

What you may not realize is i like to do something called research before dropping these claims and accusations just so if need be i can go back to my source. In this case here is my source:

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/120665-a-joint-announcement-from-two-unlikely-alliances/?p=3230338

 

TBRaiders,  a very prominent govt member of DBDC (I'm sure no one can dispute that) states: "we approached FEAR government and asked if they would assist in mediating between the two of us." But Big Ego, you said you took the initiative but that contradicts what was said at the time. Who is lying here?

 

Yeah, i know, i have too much time on my hands at the moment. Its the holidays. ^_^

 

And isn't it obvious IRON would have lost its upper tier? IRON said that themselves but they keep saying, DBDC would have lost theirs too. That is where i disagree and have expressed my disagreement.  At the time XX/AF couldn't even do anything to +400k nations but IRON could have. They're not even doing that great this war even with superior stats but they could have destroyed DBDC's top tier?

Edited January 3, 2015 by Daenerys Targaryen

[Dochartaigh]

You already confirmed FEAR brokered the peace which was my main point. Whether or not IRON or DBDC used FEAR to do it doesn't matter, those are just small irrelevant tedious errors on my part or my sources, and are only taken advantage of so you could discredit entire accusation. Well the IRON members were trying too anyway.

 

What you may not realize is i like to do something called research before dropping these claims and accusations just so if need be i can go back to my source. In this case here is my source:

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/120665-a-joint-announcement-from-two-unlikely-alliances/?p=3230338

 

TBRaiders,  a very prominent govt member of DBDC (I'm sure no one can dispute that) states: "we approached FEAR government and asked if they would assist in mediating between the two of us." But Big Ego, you said you took the initiative but that contradicts what was said at the time. Who is lying here?

 

Yeah, i know, i have too much time on my hands at the moment. Its the holidays. ^_^

 

And isn't it obvious IRON would have lost its upper tier? IRON said that themselves but they keep saying, DBDC would have lost theirs too. That is where i disagree and have expressed my disagreement.  At the time XX/AF couldn't even do anything to +400k nations but IRON could have. They're not even doing that great this war even with superior stats but they could have destroyed DBDC's top tier?

 

Look at where the main fighting is taking place brah. It is not in the top tiers. Having fought 3 of IRON's smaller upper tier nations at the beginning of the war and having seen Matt Miller in action, if that is even remotely close to how IRON fights in the top tier, they would have significantly hurt DBDC, particularly a year ago.