Enzos Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 [quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1332974548' post='2944523'] Bees are going extinct. [/quote] Zoomzoomzoom sounds like a bee Bye bye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted March 28, 2012 Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1332971789' post='2944498'] The whole world knew TOP was going to come for NpO one day and I made it plenty clear to Sparta on many occasions that their chosen FA course put them in a bad position in regards to both Polaris and GOD. Your government was given ample opportunity and encouragement to do what it claimed to want to do: not support either of those alliances in a war. Instead, Tulak, with some justification, desired to prove Sparta's honor in combat. Your government chose a path of war and death over peace and a further opportunity to be let alone. 1337 and I pressed you to do otherwise, much to the chagrin of many in our membership and the countless others throughout CN who disdain Sparta.[/quote] You kindly asked us to become neutral so you could exterminate our friends, allies and bloc partners, what kind of drugs do you use? [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1332971789' post='2944498'] The war came as was warned and the hammer fell on Sparta as it had to. Instead of accepting these events as your choice, instead of striding forth into glorious battle with self-respect, instead of regaining your honor... you threw a tantrum and pointed fingers at all those sympathetic to you. Instantly whatever consideration Sparta had once possessed in the victorious camp evaporated, save the eternally patient Umbrella. And even them you drove away through your own childish bitterness.[/quote] Getting pissed because a friend attacks one of our other friends that was gonna stay neutral anyway is strange? Btw Umbrella cancelled on Sparta, because of an ex-Umbrella guy who did something stupid for which he got expelled from Sparta. [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1332971789' post='2944498'] I will claim the heads of many alliances among my accomplishments. Long is my history and vast is my capability to remake the world and punish those who seek to harm me and mine. I worked hard to make that war happen, the war that ultimately came to you, but the global opprobrium and utter lack of respect Sparta faces is your true destruction. And that, my friend, was not my doing. It was your own. And you will never undo it; you are too consumed by bitterness. This treaty is evidence of such.[/quote] Sparta saveguarded your little crusade against NPO, remember? History teaches us that is is safer to try to harm you then to try to help you, because you spit your allies in the face once you don't need them anymore. [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1332971789' post='2944498'] I've nothing more to say. [/quote] Thank admin edit: typos Edited March 28, 2012 by Enzos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted March 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2012 Um, I already explained exactly why they cancelled and it had little to do with the twitter thing. What little crusade? Honestly, it was Hyp that said that NPO was coming in as late as possible to begin with. I forgot where he got the intel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 Beaten down NPO was coming for.. who? It was the by NPO beaten down alliances and by NPO disbanded and reformed alliances that formed DH. DH went for NPO and Sparta defended your rear while suffering major PR and NS damage. NPO's dominion was over allready att, this second beatdown wasn't necessary, but Sparta emphasized with DH(Umbrella) because you needed your personal vengeance. This is why we helped you then. We shouldn't have. We really shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) Um, if you think DH didn't suffer major PR damage, lol. And I'm trying to say it was exactly like what Fark did to NPO, because I'm going to let you in on a secret most people still don't want to admit: NPO was going to enter. The thing is, anyway, that in itself had little impact on the grand scheme. If you want to regret something, you'd have to go back a year further to the BiPolar War. Edited March 29, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogaden Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) I regret that we didn't take TOP's advice and not have trusted C&G. That's what I regret from the pre-BiPolar times. We were naive then and believed MK were decent people. Ironically TOP now believe MK are decent people. Edited March 29, 2012 by James Dahl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enzos Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1332980254' post='2944615'] Um, if you think DH didn't suffer major PR damage, lol. And I'm trying to say it was exactly like what Fark did to NPO, because I'm going to let you in on a secret most people still don't want to admit: NPO was going to enter.[/quote]They had little choice... they were your target. [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1332980254' post='2944615'] The thing is, anyway, that in itself had little impact on the grand scheme. If you want to regret something, you'd have to go back a year further to the BiPolar War. [/quote] What was the grand scheme if not revenge on NPO? Explain DH if it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1332840406' post='2943673'] Hm? Not really sure what that has to do with anything. It's more that Chalaskan was saying MK was a reliable ally. How many times do I have to mention that every enemy turned potential ally for MK is just another ODN? In MK-world everyone is a potential new ODN. NPO, TOP, Sparta, etc if they're either big or competent at fighting. Fickle defines MK, more or less, going against what Chalaskan said. Just because MK is impressed by TOP's ability to fight, and it's the reason they play nice with them, doesn't mean they're a good ally in general. [/quote] The ability to make friends with former enemies doesn't make one fickle, it makes one open-minded. Our ODN and TOP treaties were a result of months of interaction that build the relationship on all levels. Courtship if you will. While we respect ability to fight, that by itself won't make us want to sign a treaty with and/or bury the hatchet with someone. MK allying TOP and the relationship with NpO going into the dumps wasn't preordained after bipolar. Our relations with Polar survived bipolar and for several months afterward and didn't go into the dumps until the Random became emperor. While many respected TOP after bipolar, the relations didn't develop into potential treaty level until much later. And that still probably wouldn't have led to a treaty while we still had ties with Polar. Odds were against things ending up how they did between MK and TOP/NpO after bipolar. [quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1332960176' post='2944413'] You are clearly not taking into account our vast history with Umbrella. [/quote] Just because they didn't do as much as you wanted doesn't mean that they didn't do anything. [quote]It wasn't until MK decided they didn't like GOD that finally enabled TOP to declare, because they were able to gain the support of Umbrella, and other swing alliances that allowed the war to finally attain enough support to win. TLR/IRON/TOP aren't primarily responsible for that. MK is. I guess you could argue NG could be. Regardless, all the possible alliances that I would say are responsible are tightly clustered together, so on the grand scheme of things, I see determining who is ultimately responsible as a moot endeavor at this time.[/quote] MK "decided" that we disliked GOD (in reality GOD did a lot of things to make us dislike them) long before that war started. A lot of things happened after that to drive wedges between the two sides and make war more likely. We were far from the only people in our sphere that were strongly against some combination of SF, XX, and/or NpO. NG war-mongered just as much as MK. TLR also strongly wanted to roll Polar stemming from issues LOST had with NpO. MJ wanted revenge against SF. The antagonism between various alliances in our eventual coalition and XX/SF and NpO evolved separately until RIA/NpO and FARK/NpO. SF and XX linked themselves to Polar, something that no one forced them to do. Edited March 29, 2012 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1332896133' post='2943908'] Tbf to Roq, You almost did. [/quote] That example isn't applicable because it wasn't something that MK initiated and so it in no way fits into Roq's narrative of MK turning on former allies. GR and MK never ceased to have very close indirect ties via C&G. MK was never antagonistic towards GR. Most of us lamented their inactivity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Moon Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1332971789' post='2944498']I will claim the heads of many alliances among my accomplishments. Long is my history and vast is my capability to remake the world and punish those who seek to harm me and mine. I worked hard to make that war happen[/quote] I wonder what the not-MK-Toadies think when they read statements like these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalaskan Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1332820870' post='2943590'] Been a while since I've seen the 'not as bad as NPO!' argument. [/quote] Worst twist eva. NPO never entered my mind when I typed the reference to previous allies. The point of the post was there is trust and respect between MK and TOP for good reason. I guess you missed those parts of the post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enamel32 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1332985314' post='2944689'] Just because they didn't do as much as you wanted doesn't mean that they didn't do anything.[/quote] Yep that's true. I don't recall claiming they never did anything for us though. [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1332985314' post='2944689'] NG war-mongered just as much as MK. [/quote] Self-proclaimed war mongering is good to be aware of. I'll be sure to save this comment for future political ammunition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1332988504' post='2944725'] Yep that's true. I don't recall claiming they never did anything for us though. [/quote] Calling the relationship a one way relationship is saying that: [quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1332896278' post='2943910']Relationships are always two way streets, [b]and with Umb it was always one way.[/b] So no, I don't buy your argument, but feel free to keep tooting that DH horn! I suppose you want me to say that it is awful relationship etiquette making that request, but to say that would imply that you believe [b]Sparta should have let Umb continue to be the only one in our [i]mutual relationship[/i] to take benefit from our allegiance.[/b][/quote] Edited March 29, 2012 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enamel32 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Azaghul' timestamp='1332989695' post='2944734'] Calling the relationship a one way relationship is saying that: [/quote] yeah, you got me there as I made a blanket argument, but the point I conveyed regarding the relationship being grossly one-sided still stands. [size="1"][ooc]You're a smart guy azaghul, I've come to like you more then I thought I would[/ooc][/size] Edited March 29, 2012 by Enamel32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='Enamel32' timestamp='1332988504' post='2944725'] Self-proclaimed war mongering is good to be aware of. I'll be sure to save this comment for future political ammunition. [/quote] So you would rather everyone do [i]nothing[/i]? This is not ammunition, you moron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='James Dahl' timestamp='1332980581' post='2944626'] Ironically TOP now believe MK are decent people. [/quote] I don't think that's the case, they have a treaty, they even can be friends, but I doubt they really trust each other, TOP will abandon MK in the moment that MK see itself in a difficult position, exactly how they abandoned NPO or MK will destroy TOP when they don't need them anymore exactly how MK does with all the alliances who lose the value for them, that's the beauty of their relationship. My only worry is decide for what scenario I wish more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WorldConqueror Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='Chalaskan' timestamp='1332987586' post='2944712'] Worst twist eva. NPO never entered my mind when I typed the reference to previous allies. The point of the post was there is trust and respect between MK and TOP for good reason. I guess you missed those parts of the post... [/quote] No, I got the trust and respect part, however I did also notice that you were saying that the MK-TOP relationship has those things while your relationships with past allies didn't. Which leads me to ask the question, which past allies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Enzos' timestamp='1332980913' post='2944635'] They had little choice... they were your target. What was the grand scheme if not revenge on NPO? Explain.[/quote] Um, what about all the treaty partners they had that were going to enter the war? Like Legion, for instance, or TPF? For FAN, it was revenge, for MK it was dislike over more recent stuff. For me, it was because I wanted a shot at the proverbial moby dick. GOONS didn't like NPO over the red team stuff. [quote name='WorldConqueror' timestamp='1332998891' post='2944825'] No, I got the trust and respect part, however I did also notice that you were saying that the MK-TOP relationship has those things while your relationships with past allies didn't. Which leads me to ask the question, which past allies? [/quote] MK allies/ex-allies like Umbrella and FOK. I guess we could throw Gre/MHA in there. Edited March 29, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vol Navy Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1333008353' post='2944906'] Um, what about all the treaty partners they had that were going to enter the war? Like Legion, for instance, or TPF? [/quote] We weren't going to enter the war. That was already well talked over with the blessing of the STA who didn't expect us to lift a finger to help the Polar cause, as Polar had also screwed us during BiPolar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted March 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1333010543' post='2944915'] We weren't going to enter the war. That was already well talked over with the blessing of the STA who didn't expect us to lift a finger to help the Polar cause, as Polar had also screwed us during BiPolar. [/quote] Oh no, not this again. Legion was, at the very least, and what you're stating wasn't the motivation that TCK cited for not going in right away, which was "If Random wants a coalition war, he has to let us into his channel." I mean, at this point, you already know how I got the info, so trying to go back to this is pointless. [quote]quote:z4u74hwk]<@mhawk> before we destroy everything and put NPO under another 10-20 billion reps <@mhawk> lets make sure we figure out wtf we can accomplish [b]<&TCK> and make sure we are fighting this on our terms, not polar's[/b] <&[NSO]youwish959> What do you mean polar's terms? <@mhawk> if polar getting stomped causes more damage to their blocs than us suicide attacking <@KainIIIC> part of it mhawk is actually gauging how much dormant support would be on our side <@mhawk> not much tbh <&[NSO]youwish959> Mhawk lemme tell you the way I see it. * Cortath-away (<!-- e --><a * ChanServ sets mode: +o Cortath-away <&[NSO]youwish959> Currently neither Order can support itself. They have been leaning on each other and each others loosely tied power bases to stay alive. The fact of the matter is people hate the orders, because well they're the Orders. One falls the other will either fall with them or within a period of months afterwards [b]<&TCK> youwish, if Polar wants this to be a coalition war then this needs to be ran as such. Right now they are running milcom with just their allies.[/b] <@mhawk> I think this is a gambit <&[NSO]youwish959> And those are the only ones who have committed <@mhawk> to get one last order beat down <@mhawk> before the real war starts <@mhawk> between top/mk and ve pb <&[NSO]youwish959> That's an interesting line of thought <&[NSO]youwish959> I've never heard that one <&[NSO]youwish959> I can see where you come from though. <&[NSO]youwish959> I don't think they'll stop here though. That war is going to take a year+ to develop and pacifica/us will be right there easy for the pickings <&[NSO]youwish959> I mean if I were them... I know what I'd do. <&[NSO]youwish959> brb <&[NSO]youwish959> anyways <&[NSO]youwish959> I mean seriously... what would you do mhawk if you were them? <@mhawk> I would avoid taking damage if there was a major enemy on the flank <@mhawk> thats why we put off some wars pre karma <@mhawk> lets say ve comes in on us again <@mhawk> down the line <@mhawk> they'd take enough damage to put them out of contention to holding off mk/top[/quote:z4u74hwk] Interesting line of thought here.[/quote] Edited March 29, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enamel32 Posted March 29, 2012 Report Share Posted March 29, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Zoomzoomzoom' timestamp='1332991156' post='2944745'] So you would rather everyone do [i]nothing[/i]? This is not ammunition, you moron. [/quote] No cockmongler, I said nothing of the sort. Yes, yes it is. Has been used against NPO of old and allies for years. Not sure why you think that has changed. Well, yes I do. That's MK sphere trying to spin an ideology shift to justify their sins. Nice try, but luckily for me, I'm not as stupid as you clearly think I am. And just to be an !@#hole ( ), Approval of self-proclaimed war mongering is good to be aware of. I'll be sure to save this comment for future political ammunition. Edited March 29, 2012 by Enamel32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='D34th' timestamp='1332993800' post='2944765'] I don't think that's the case, they have a treaty, they even can be friends, but I doubt they really trust each other, TOP will abandon MK in the moment that MK see itself in a difficult position, exactly how they abandoned NPO or MK will destroy TOP when they don't need them anymore exactly how MK does with all the alliances who lose the value for them, that's the beauty of their relationship. My only worry is decide for what scenario I wish more.[/quote] I guess we'll just have to wait for our enemies to finally get their stuff together and put us in a position where we are outnumbered. We'll see, then, if our mutual commitment (MK to TOP and TOP to MK) is as strong as we say it is. Ah, the joys of life. We still got a few years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D34th Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1333088400' post='2945410'] I guess we'll just have to wait for our enemies to finally get their stuff together and put us in a position where we are outnumbered. We'll see, then, if our mutual commitment (MK to TOP and TOP to MK) is as strong as we say it is. Ah, the joys of life. We still got a few years. [/quote] I truly admire your optimism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted March 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 [quote name='Yevgeni Luchenkov' timestamp='1333088400' post='2945410'] I guess we'll just have to wait for our enemies to finally get their stuff together and put us in a position where we are outnumbered. We'll see, then, if our mutual commitment (MK to TOP and TOP to MK) is as strong as we say it is. Ah, the joys of life. We still got a few years. [/quote] What about the applicability of your treaty? Does that not factor in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yevgeni Luchenkov Posted March 30, 2012 Report Share Posted March 30, 2012 (edited) nvm, edited, got you wrong I think. :3 Edited March 30, 2012 by Yevgeni Luchenkov Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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