Stewie Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 [quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1329322321' post='2921071'] Since when does an alliance need treaties to be considered an alliance? That's a dumb way of determining it, do you consider GPA an alliance? [/quote] I didn't say it wasn't an alliance. I said that it had no OTPs. Therefore is "unaligned". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329324075' post='2921082'] I didn't say it wasn't an alliance. I said that it had no OTPs. Therefore is "unaligned". [/quote] That makes a little more sense, guess I misread your post a bit. Although FAN for example doesn't do treaties but will still align themselves with some alliances over others, so just because they don't have treaties doesn't automatically make them unaligned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefspari Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 [quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1329311095' post='2921033'] Since when is a member of an alliance of 2 million NS considered 'unaligned'? [/quote] I was making examples of similarly stupid concepts. That was directly in reference to things like The Moldavi Doctrine and Yellow Number 5. I'm sorry it went over your head. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aeris-_-L5.jpg[/img] [quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1329312744' post='2921037'] He didn't say that? [/quote] She. [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisdisL9.jpg[/img] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ying Yang Mafia Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329159282' post='2919601'] YYM loves sloppy seconds. [/quote] I like my land good and used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1329245878' post='2920457'] GOONs has a similar policy in that we have a numeric rule for alliance size but can throw that out the window if we want.[/quote] Was not aware of that, and I actually do pay some attention to GOONS rules on the matter. I've never seen that posted, but that doesn't mean it has not been. [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1329245878' post='2920457']If you don't like it then the good news is you don't have to follow NG's example.[/quote] I have no desire to follow Non-Grata's example. Not anywhere near my political philosophy. My interest, beyond expressing an opinion, is more about avoiding being in AGW Overlord's position for both the alliance I am in and our allies in the future. A good portion of this is - if this IS some sort of trend - political self-defense. [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1329245878' post='2920457']Trying to claim this is going to be the new standard is just nonsense.[/quote] Well, you just said GOONS has the same policy (which I was not aware of), so there's two large alliances that allow "tech raids" of alliances outside the standards of "common practice" in some situations. [quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1329254659' post='2920552'] Only when the protector themselves are unable to protect, probably by being in the political minority due to the collection of power around the strongest center, will we see more aggressive action. Are you suggesting that is the trend?[/quote] The potential trend that I, personally, do not like that I see possibly happening here is NOT about aggressive action in and of itself. It's about using the excuse "oh, this is 'JUST' a 'tech raid'" in order to avoid the potential backlash of declaring an aggressive war. Also, although personally I don't like it and don't agree with the practice, I accept that other alliances see a political difference between a "tech raid" and a "war" and I've been around long enough and have enough experience in smaller alliances to know what is and is not "common practice." So I'm NOT saying "do not tech raid" - that's a lost cause. I'm also NOT saying "do not war" - that's even less likely (and even I will war now and then ) What I am saying is if an alliance wants to step outside the 0-16ish range of who to "tech raid", then the least they could do is give the alliance their members are going to attack the respect that goes with a formal declaration of war. [quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1329254659' post='2920552'] And if this is a desire of yours, what are you doing to see it happen?[/quote] I'm stating my opinion and the reasons behind it in public. If you have any other suggestions, I'm willing to hear them. Edited February 15, 2012 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beefspari Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) [quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329346231' post='2921253'] Well, you just said GOONS has the same policy (which I was not aware of), so there's two large alliances that allow "tech raids" of alliances outside the standards of "common practice" in some situations.[/quote] Are you in NG? Or GOONs? Does us having these policies make your alliance consider adopting these policies? Do you see other alliances flocking to this idea so they can DoW on larger alliances? If not then what the hell are you talking about? [img]http://meru.xfury.net/images/aeris/aerisfffL8.jpg[/img] Edited February 15, 2012 by Beefspari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Beefspari' timestamp='1329347671' post='2921272'] Are you in NG? Or GOONs? Does us having these policies make your alliance consider adopting these policies? Do you see other alliances flocking to this idea so they can DoW on larger alliances? If not then what the hell are you talking about?[/quote] I'm neither in NG or GOONS. You can see that as well as anyone as my alliance affiliation is no secret. I can say with 100% confidence that SC has no desire to adopt the policies as we're a non-tech raiding alliance and have no desire to change that fact. Other alliances that allow tech raiding may or may not chose to have similar policies or may or may not adopt them. To quote my previous post (if you would have read all of it and not just my replies to you): "What I am saying is if an alliance wants to step outside the 0-16ish range of who to "tech raid", {as NG did in this case] then the least they could do is give the alliance their members are going to attack the respect that goes with a formal declaration of war." I hope that clears up any confusion on your part as to my alliance affiliation, whether or not SC will follow NG's example and also what I'm talking about. Edited February 16, 2012 by White Chocolate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote]All I'm saying is that, in my opinion, Non Grata should have had enough respect for AGW Overlords (considering their size and overall nation strength as an alliance) to do a formal Declaration of War on them as opposed to a "tech raid" and that I hope that other alliances do not follow their example.[/quote] That's well meaning, but laughable, for those who do not comport themselves with a modicum of class, strength is the only thing they respect. [quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329346231' post='2921253']I'm stating my opinion and the reasons behind it in public. If you have any other suggestions, I'm willing to hear them.[/quote] Keep your gun loaded and near-by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1329322945' post='2921074'] Or if you're a raider and you consider tech and land gains, yes. [/quote] Omni was specifically talking about profiting when nukes are being tossed. Edited February 16, 2012 by Aurion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1329357393' post='2921419'] Omni was specifically talking about profiting when nukes are being tossed. [/quote] As was I. It's mitigated but certainly not eliminated (unless you're taking numerous nukes). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1329365203' post='2921469'] As was I. It's mitigated but certainly not eliminated (unless you're taking numerous nukes). [/quote] I don't know, even one nuke will wipe a fair amount of Tech/Land so they'd have to have quite a bit of Land to grab to really make it profitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artigo Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1329367618' post='2921511'] I don't know, even one nuke will wipe a fair amount of Tech/Land so they'd have to have quite a bit of Land to grab to really make it profitable. [/quote] It's not really has hard as you make it out to be. I steal about 700 land per target, per day. They can only nuke me once per day after the 24 hours IF they do nuke me. So with two targets I'm already up 1,400 land there. Then if/when they do nuke me damage is then dependent on the tech of the nuker. In this case, low tech, means I keep more land. Now, if I'm fighting someone my size, there won't be much gained. However, I have to say, during the Fark wars I was fighting nations fairly close to my tech range and I still profited pretty well in the end. Ultimately it comes down to how many targets you have. The more the better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote name='Artigo' timestamp='1329372178' post='2921572'] It's not really has hard as you make it out to be. I steal about 700 land per target, per day. They can only nuke me once per day after the 24 hours IF they do nuke me. So with two targets I'm already up 1,400 land there. Then if/when they do nuke me damage is then dependent on the tech of the nuker. In this case, low tech, means I keep more land. Now, if I'm fighting someone my size, there won't be much gained. However, I have to say, during the Fark wars I was fighting nations fairly close to my tech range and I still profited pretty well in the end. Ultimately it comes down to how many targets you have. The more the better. [/quote] I was going to ask who the $%&@ you were raiding, but then I saw you're literally 160k NS and I couldn't reach them if I tried. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olaf Styke Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329324075' post='2921082'] I didn't say it wasn't an alliance. I said that it had no OTPs. Therefore is "unaligned". [/quote] I hear FAN is unaligned, I bet they have lots of tech... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote name='Olaf Styke' timestamp='1329393262' post='2921705'] I hear FAN is unaligned, I bet they have lots of tech... [/quote] FAN has several gentleman agreements/paperless treaties with Nordreich, FARK and several others. Therefore not unaligned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Chocolate Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329233764' post='2920311']Really? How many alliances the size and strength and nuke count of AGW Overlords are currently being "raided."? Yes, we live in a might makes right world. However, it's been worse before and nothing says it can't be worse in the future. I'd rather have some basic decorum.[/quote] [quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1329254659' post='2920552'] And if this is a desire of yours, what are you doing to see it happen? [/quote] [quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1329346231' post='2921253'] I'm stating my opinion and the reasons behind it in public. If you have any other suggestions, I'm willing to hear them. [/quote] [quote name='Kzoppistan' timestamp='1329353520' post='2921388'] Keep your gun loaded and near-by. [/quote] Always Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artigo Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1329372381' post='2921575'] I was going to ask who the $%&@ you were raiding, but then I saw you're literally 160k NS and I couldn't reach them if I tried. [/quote] Yeah it's easier at my level. If you can find targets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoomzoomzoom Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1329372381' post='2921575'] I was going to ask who the $%&@ you were raiding, but then I saw you're literally 160k NS and I couldn't reach them if I tried. [/quote] I always think it is stupid for people to not try and get three initial targets. With the proper coordination you can really inflict pain and still gain. It is possible to gain land in nuclear conflict and if not that, at least maintain land levels. It is really all about the coordination, cause even if someone like myself has 6 wars rarely will any of them coordinate to nuke then win 12 GAs. On the other hand every land whore like myself fights with competent folks and that's why we gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isaac MatthewII Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1328928100' post='2918117'] We want to end this raid, however their members are not accepting peace and in fact declaring offensive wars against our members. [/quote] Its almost as if they are put out...like they were hit for no reason or something... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Isaac MatthewII' timestamp='1329461582' post='2922406'] Its almost as if they are put out...like they were hit for no reason or something... [/quote] They were hit for land and tech gains.. :/ 2600 land, 130 tech for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329475105' post='2922461'] They were hit for land and tech gains.. :/ 2600 land, 130 tech for me [/quote] So they were hit for a reason worse than none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 Well, it was a raid. Raid = Land & tech gains... Are we SERIOUSLY going to go back over the merits of raiding over not raiding? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329475633' post='2922465'] Well, it was a raid. Raid = Land & tech gains... Are we SERIOUSLY going to go back over the merits of raiding over not raiding? [/quote] There are no good merits to raiding other selfish gain at the expense of others, so kind of a pointless thing to go over. Those who raid don't care if they're harming another nation for their own self gain, so its pointless to argue with a raider over the merits. Edited February 17, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stewie Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 It makes life more interesting than just sitting back collecting every 20 days. Did that for 3 years. It gets very monotonous ¬_¬ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sephiroth Posted February 17, 2012 Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Stewie' timestamp='1329480981' post='2922500'] It makes life more interesting than just sitting back collecting every 20 days. Did that for 3 years. It gets very monotonous ¬_¬ [/quote] Maybe rather than raid you guys could start a real war worth posting a DoW for if you want to make things interesting. I'm not sure how fun it can actually be hitting random targets who don't have the means to put up a good fight. Edited February 17, 2012 by Methrage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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