Doitzel Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1326461961' post='2898758'] All that said, our relationship with NPO today has more to do with GATO's propensity for giving second chances to those that make an effort. NPO in our mind has made that effort. [/quote] This reminds me of the (second?) time GATO elected Grenval as MoFA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chedab Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 I like GATO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benjaminperdomo Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326451748' post='2898725'] I don't know why stockholm syndrome suits you so well. .... The only reason you exist in the present state you do is because a lot of people who had left GATO before the 1V-GATO war went back, like magicninja. ... [/quote] [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326453306' post='2898733'] It's not really trolling. It was an honest question. [/quote] 1) You accused us of being crazy or ill 2) You say the people who didn't leave, or the new people who wasn't in GATO before, don't count for anything, And you say this isn't trolling? Really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoADarthCyfe6 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326455591' post='2898740'] What puzzles me is you let that one go but hold a pseudo grudge against Polar for some reason. At this point though, NpO is like the NPO of 2010 and then early 2011, but even worse off. Though a lot of it has to do with people like TOP actually holding grudges and being willing to act on them, which isn't really bad. [/quote] You should meet ShinRa. [quote name='benjaminperdomo' timestamp='1326460781' post='2898756'] We are still on this again? Just kill me now [/quote] This is like watching a 12 year trying to debate to their parents why TV is good for you instead of homework. This is child's play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flak attack Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Ayatollah Bromeini' timestamp='1326410327' post='2898328'] No one remembers INC [/quote] GATO was founded before INC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerschbs Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='Doitzel' timestamp='1326425934' post='2898510'] Definitely worth a congratulations. GATO is easily one of the most resilient alliances around, holding together through some of the worst leadership and the most unjust wars in these many years. I remember chilling in #gato_ga under perma-zi during the GATO-1V war with people whom I'd counted among my enemies for a very long time. It was honestly a transforming experience to see a community from the inside that I'd been part of besieging from the outside and the toll it could take. Much of that core is still here, and many have been added, and such cohesion is itself worth celebrating. Keep on keepin' on. [/quote] We let you into #ga during 1v? That war is long enough that events kind of blur together. You should join up Doitz, I think GATO could actually reinvigorate you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laserwolf Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1326476509' post='2898857'] We let you into #ga during 1v? That war is long enough that events kind of blur together. You should join up Doitz, I think GATO could actually reinvigorate you [/quote] Or drive him to be medicated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 Congrats guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Wilson Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='SoADarthCyfe6' timestamp='1326468897' post='2898783'] You should meet ShinRa. [/quote] Are you insane? No one should meet ShinRa. In fact, he should be locked up because his thoughts are so psychotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 13, 2012 Report Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='James Wilson' timestamp='1326496679' post='2899083'] Are you insane? No one should meet ShinRa. In fact, he should be locked up because his thoughts are so psychotic. [/quote] I like ShinRa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AirMe Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326451748' post='2898725'] I don't know why stockholm syndrome suits you so well. The reason you were bill locked to begin with is because they had mercilessly prosecuted a war of extermination over Chris Kaos rerolling and being a deputy MoIA for a period that had long passed. The grudge itself went back to GWI. The only reason you exist in the present state you do is because a lot of people who had left GATO before the 1V-GATO war went back, like magicninja. It was pretty puzzling to see you all complain over a perfectly legitimate preemptive attack against a hostile alliance and act like it was nearly as bad. Hell, you went so far as to pre-empt an alliance yourself. Making an alliance a tech farm and claiming that it's somehow nice to do so is hilarious. Can I get all the GATO posts bawwing about it? Or can you just admit you were wrong? edit: In conclusion, we should have kept NPO at war until everyone was in tech selling range, imposed a Viceroy, and then bought tech from them. Then they'd really love us if we were kind of sorry about it. [/quote] Can you go rain on someone else's parade? It's a birthday thread for an alliance that is of no significance to you. Congrat GATO on 6 years. I have shared some good times and bad times with you guys...loved you for a while and hated you for a while but you still made it to 6 years. Congrats guys and enjoy this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakamitai Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Well done GATO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pingu Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 Good to see some of us old time alliances still around to tell the young 'uns to get off our lawns. So get of GATO's lawn, young people! Also, cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='benjaminperdomo' timestamp='1326465301' post='2898771'] 1) You accused us of being crazy or ill 2) You say the people who didn't leave, or the new people who wasn't in GATO before, don't count for anything, And you say this isn't trolling? Really? [/quote] Um, considering my response to Laslo, yes. Considering I have looked out for the interests of your alliance before, it's kind of weird to assume enmity rather than perplexion. Feel free to consult Arsenal about it. [quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1326501417' post='2899135'] Can you go rain on someone else's parade? It's a birthday thread for an alliance that is of no significance to you. Congrat GATO on 6 years. I have shared some good times and bad times with you guys...loved you for a while and hated you for a while but you still made it to 6 years. Congrats guys and enjoy this. [/quote] They kind of skewered DH for an action they later committed. I did the same thing to Fark, so taking it personally is inappropriate. Edited January 14, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326508406' post='2899182'] They kind of skewered DH for an action they later committed. I did the same thing to Fark, so taking it personally is inappropriate. [/quote] History is packed with alliances doing similar things. You were closely allied to perhaps the most notable alliance to do very much the same thing. I don't wee why this is worthy of comment. My interactions with GATO have been relatively minimal, but I hope to get a chance to get to know you better. Congrats on leading the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Roadie' timestamp='1326509366' post='2899191'] History is packed with alliances doing similar things. You were closely allied to perhaps the most notable alliance to do very much the same thing. I don't wee why this is worthy of comment. My interactions with GATO have been relatively minimal, but I hope to get a chance to get to know you better. Congrats on leading the world. [/quote] Because the histrionics from people like Mr. Perdomo were pretty annoying. It's not like I haven't gone after the people you're talking about when they do similar things. Anyway, happy birthday. Edited January 14, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326509434' post='2899192'] Because the histrionics from people like Mr. Perdomo were pretty annoying. It's not like I haven't gone after the people you're talking about when they do similar things. Anyway, happy birthday. [/quote] Well yes there was a fine line between what happened with DH and NPO and what happened with us and MHA. The distinction comes from we didn;t really think NPO was going to do anything when they were hit. If DH believed they were I guess that is their right but we certainly didn;t see anything that led in that direction. As for MHA and us well we received intel that they were preparing to hit those that hit Fark. Since our ally was among them we decided it was prudent to act and spare our ally any damage. I guess DH could have acted on information they had but that was never shared with us that I remember. Not that they had any obligation to share intel but when you withhold that kind of information you have to expect that, to an outside observer, it looks as if you struck for no real reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1326510018' post='2899204'] Well yes there was a fine line between what happened with DH and NPO and what happened with us and MHA. The distinction comes from we didn;t really think NPO was going to do anything when they were hit. If DH believed they were I guess that is their right but we certainly didn;t see anything that led in that direction. As for MHA and us well we received intel that they were preparing to hit those that hit Fark. Since our ally was among them we decided it was prudent to act and spare our ally any damage. I guess DH could have acted on information they had but that was never shared with us that I remember. Not that they had any obligation to share intel but when you withhold that kind of information you have to expect that, to an outside observer, it looks as if you struck for no real reason. [/quote] First paragraph of the declaration. Also, I even posted in the thread several times as to what the rationale was and made Archon and I's rationale publicly available. NPO and TPF's mobilization was an act. Let's think of it like OOC: The Six Day War and DH was Israel. It's not a flagship to protect if they're not getting involved at all. [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1295932069' post='2598553'] That's what was happening, hence TPF not being called in until they could get AZTEC in on that side. [/quote] Since I ended up getting drowned out on the OWF: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display§ion=blog&blogid=211&showentry=2729 Edited January 14, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326510084' post='2899206'] First paragraph of the declaration. Also, I even posted in the thread several times as to what the rationale was and made Archon and I's rationale publicly available. NPO and TPF's mobilization was an act. Let's think of it like OOC: The Six Day War and DH was Israel. It's not a flagship to protect if they're not getting involved at all. [/quote] I guess if you want to say this alliance was protecting that alliance or they will be a threat in the future they are technically reasons but are they really good reasons? If NPO or Legion was never going to do anything were they a threat at the time? It seems you guys thought that NPO was going to just sit it out and you couldn't allow them to do that. On the flip side we knew MHA was going in, possibly on allies of ours. I don;t think anyone in GATO has an aversion to pre-empting someone. The situation just has to dictate that it was the right thing to do. You may have geniunely felt you needed to beat up NPO for whatever reason....but to those not in the know it just looked like you wanted to beat them up for fun regardless of the reasons you put out. That I think is the problem. MK and DH probably have a bit of a rep for just killing for fun. GATO however I think people will realize doesn;t pursue anything unless we feel we really have to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omniscient1 Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) Roq, GATO must have later thought you were on to something. Congrats on doing it before hand. TOP done it even before you though. I think there was a sig with one of your quotes on it. There's no need to continue arguing it. You had a good idea that the world later adopted. Also, you should hit me up next time you're on irc. Edited January 14, 2012 by Omniscient1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1326510892' post='2899211'] I guess if you want to say this alliance was protecting that alliance or they will be a threat in the future they are technically reasons but are they really good reasons? If NPO or Legion was never going to do anything were they a threat at the time? It seems you guys thought that NPO was going to just sit it out and you couldn't allow them to do that. On the flip side we knew MHA was going in, possibly on allies of ours. I don;t think anyone in GATO has an aversion to pre-empting someone. The situation just has to dictate that it was the right thing to do. You may have geniunely felt you needed to beat up NPO for whatever reason....but to those not in the know it just looked like you wanted to beat them up for fun regardless of the reasons you put out. That I think is the problem. MK and DH probably have a bit of a rep for just killing for fun. GATO however I think people will realize doesn;t pursue anything unless we feel we really have to. [/quote] We did think NPO/Legion were going to enter. The issue is they were dragging out their entrance to get as many people in ahead of them, like GATO for example. If you read Xiphosis' post in the thread, he refers to NPO being a card in Random's sleeve. Edited January 14, 2012 by Roquentin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326510959' post='2899213'] We did think NPO/Legion were going to enter. The issue is they were dragging out their entrance to get as many people in ahead of them, like GATO for example. [/quote] Well that's all well and good but that really wasn't what was said in the op of DH's DoW. You led on like NPO and Legion were never going to enter. That their non-entrance was evidence that the alliances fighting were willing to eat it to protect them or something...the op really isn't that clear tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1326511223' post='2899217'] Well that's all well and good but that really wasn't what was said in the op of DH's DoW. You led on like NPO and Legion were never going to enter. That their non-entrance was evidence that the alliances fighting were willing to eat it to protect them or something...the op really isn't that clear tbh. [/quote] Yeah, Archon kind of got busy after posting it and he couldn't be around to establish a clear line as far as MK goes, but people like me and SirWiliam were pushing the preempt thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magicninja Posted January 14, 2012 Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1326511334' post='2899219'] Yeah, Archon kind of got busy after posting it and he couldn't be around to establish a clear line as far as MK goes, but people like me and SirWiliam were pushing the preempt thing. [/quote] Well, like I said there is nothing wrong with a preempt here and there but we feel your reasons for it need to be at least approaching reasonable. As long as you make that clear, go for it. If your reasons are not reasonable or they are but you don;t convey that, you can't expect everyone to love what you are doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laslo Kenez Posted January 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted January 14, 2012 [quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1326510897' post='2899212'] Roq, GATO must have later thought you were on to something. Congrats on doing it before hand. TOP done it even before you though. I think there was a sig with one of your quotes on it. There's no need to continue arguing it. You had a good idea that the world later adopted. Also, you should hit me up next time you're on irc. [/quote] Eh, I just hear the "stockholm syndrome" thing now and again and it bugs me. It stinks of people being glad we've got our freedom, but expecting us to do exactly as they say and think is best, while we're just trying to be GATO. As for the pre-empt, I wasn't too bothered myself and I think magicnina is right that DH didn't really make their case well enough, despite it probably being there to a reasonable enough extent. As a result it was very easy to get caught up in disliking it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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