Quick Europa Announcement

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1303485672' post='2696592']
Lol, so now we're gonna have to check for every nation on none if not someone is protecting them?

If you want him safe, let him:
A. Join a alliance
B. Ghost your AA
C. On your applicant AA
D. Enter peace mode

As long as he's on none, he's open for raids.

Edit: Forgot the ever so popular peacemode
[/quote]



So now we're gonna have to check every alliance on Bob to see if they have MDP allies before attacking them?

[Diabloz]

Hmm.. i dont see anything wrong with forcing people on none to join their aa by raids.. its similar to tech raiding.

Its his fault for not joining a alliance

[EgoFreaky]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1303505831' post='2696977']
So now we're gonna have to check every alliance on Bob to see if they have MDP allies before attacking them?
[/quote]

Oh wow.. you really want to compare an unalligned nation with an alliance? I see great things in your future if you don't see the difference..

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1303485672' post='2696592']
Lol, so now we're gonna have to check for every nation on none if not someone is protecting them?

If you want him safe, let him:
A. Join a alliance
B. Ghost your AA
C. On your applicant AA
D. Enter peace mode

As long as he's on none, he's open for raids.
[/quote]

Concurring with this. Bios are grey territory at best and you know it, Europa. If you're going to do it, do it properly or don't.

[wickedj]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1303482455' post='2696544']
[i]Improvements: No improvements purchased.
National Wonders: Manhattan Project

Number of Soldiers Lost in All Wars. 2,293,283 Attacking + 3,394,640 Defending = 5,687,923 Casualties[/i]

There's more to relyt92 than initially meets the eye.
[/quote]
I thought everyone knew Tyler?

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2][quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1303511592' post='2697092']
Oh wow.. you really want to compare an unalligned nation with an alliance? I see great things in your future if you don't see the difference..
[/quote]


I'm just saying that we've made the information as available as possible. If a potential raider cannot be bothered to click an additional link, they shouldn't be raiding in the first place. Raiding is something for hardcore clickers only.

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1303512297' post='2697107']
Concurring with this. Bios are grey territory at best and you know it, Europa. If you're going to do it, do it properly or don't.
[/quote]

I understand that, which is the reason for this announcement. Europa isn't known to protect individual nations (or known really at all, to be honest), so this exception should be easy to spot. [/size][/font]

[Lurunin]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1303494061' post='2696763']
I thought most people were applauding the GOONS raid em til they join an alliance method not very long ago.
[/quote]

i dont believe there was a time when i've ever applauded GOONS for anything

also there's a HUGE difference in what happened and what GOONS does

[quote name='Lord Velox' timestamp='1303497006' post='2696801']
NOONE EVER APPLAUDS GOONS AND WE DO NOT RAID PEOPLE TO MAKE THEM JOIN OUR ALLIANCE,WE RAID THEM BECAUSE WE LIKE RAIDS.
[/quote]

that sums it up perfectly actually

to raid a person = ok....to attack a person until they join your AA is not

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Lurunin' timestamp='1303512650' post='2697116']
to raid a person = ok....to attack a person until they join your AA is not
[/quote]



This basically sums up the point of our protection.

[8 Mile]

Tech raiding has been regarded as acceptable on Planet Bob for the past years. It has been a topic of debate, however it has not been considered taboo. Gotham technically didn't do anything justifiable of social criticism.


However, their actions aren't on par with my beliefs and this current situation has led me to re-evaluate my membership in Gotham. (As is the case with others in Gotham) Hopefully we can all move forward from this situation and find common ground.

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1303512616' post='2697115']
I understand that, which is the reason for this announcement. Europa isn't known to protect individual nations (or known really at all, to be honest), so this exception should be easy to spot.
[/quote]

I get that, it just seems pointless when he can ghost applicant or actual AA extremely easily and save any possibility of misunderstandings or drama.

[Lord Boris]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1303516113' post='2697172']
I get that, it just seems pointless when he can ghost applicant or actual AA extremely easily and save any possibility of misunderstandings or drama.
[/quote]

I'll grant you the idea that this is not the 'usual' way of things, however it's not like this type of thing hasn't been announced by people for various reasons before, Xiphosis (in fact, I believe your good buddies over at VE have posted announcements like this on at least one occasion).

Really I don't see what the excessive fuss over the announcement is. Europa has stated their intentions to protect an individual for a certain length of time or until certain conditions are met. Most people have read it and moved on, now aware of the conditions as they are. There's no real reason for any level of bickering or posturing in a thread like this.

[Xiphosis]

[quote]There's no real reason for any level of bickering or posturing in a thread like this. [/quote]

Nor do you see me participating in either. I'm merely questioning a decision when it leaves such potential for drama when the alternative is seemingly just as easy.

[relyt92]

[quote name='8 Mile' timestamp='1303512958' post='2697122']
Tech raiding has been regarded as acceptable on Planet Bob for the past years. It has been a topic of debate, however it has not been considered taboo. Gotham technically didn't do anything justifiable of social criticism.


However, their actions aren't on par with my beliefs and this current situation has led me to re-evaluate my membership in Gotham. (As is the case with others in Gotham) Hopefully we can all move forward from this situation and find common ground.
[/quote]
If all it ever was is a tech raid there'd be no issues.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1303516786' post='2697188']
Nor do you see me participating in either. I'm merely questioning a decision when it leaves such potential for drama when the alternative is seemingly just as easy.
[/quote]

I legitimately understand where you're coming from and tend to agree, but this was a special case for a number of reasons, and we figured this was the most direct, expeditiously acceptable method we had available at the time. I'd have kept this in the original thread, but some alliances have a history of raiding others when things aren't made official enough.

[Aeros]

I see nothing wrong with Europa making an official announcement here. This is where Alliance Announcements go after all.

[Xiphosis]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1303612133' post='2698152']
I legitimately understand where you're coming from and tend to agree, but this was a special case for a number of reasons, and we figured this was the most direct, expeditiously acceptable method we had available at the time. I'd have kept this in the original thread, but some alliances have a history of raiding others when things aren't made official enough.
[/quote]

Yeah, this is without a doubt the right way to do it given this is the way you opted for [single-nation protection not AA-wise]. Mind explaining why this was more expeditious or acceptable? I haven't read the related threads to this... mostly because I couldn't give less of a damn, but maybe that's what I'm missing.

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Xiphosis' timestamp='1303628729' post='2698330']
Yeah, this is without a doubt the right way to do it given this is the way you opted for [single-nation protection not AA-wise]. Mind explaining why this was more expeditious or acceptable? I haven't read the related threads to this... mostly because I couldn't give less of a damn, but maybe that's what I'm missing.
[/quote]

Basically, he'd been raided by a member of Gotham and when he approached Gotham about the raid, he was told to join or have the raids continue. When he said he wasn't interested in joining, their leader (in a rather childish manner) informed him that the attacks would not be stopped, at which point another Gotham nation joined the raid.

Tyler started a thread about his situation and peace was established, however, I understand the speed at which a cry for help can turn into a flare signalling raiders to swarm down upon the nation that starts said thread, so I felt it would be in the best interests of all involved to post this thread before any more damage could be done. I didn't feel a message in a bio would seem "official" enough for some, and even if it were, I wasn't sure how quickly the bio-protection notice could be added. Things move fast, I had to move faster.

[Lord Levistus]

How has this gone three pages with out a shout out to Walford or CNARF?

Seriously, though, he's on NONE and he's been around long enough to know better, He isn't some 3 week old noob who hasn't been around the block. If he wants or needs protection he should get under an AA. Europa's is fine, or he can ghost someone who wishes to protect him until such time as he finds an acceptable home.

The "Join us and raids will stop" line is lame, sure, but It's nothing new. It's not like Tyler couldn't join a different AA. Once he started flying an AA Gotham would need to show cause for the attacks to the new AA if they wished to start any new wars.

Europa should get off their high horse and keep their nose out of where it doesn't belong.

Edited April 24, 2011 by Lord Levistus

[Lord Levistus]

[quote name='Ernesto Che Guevara' timestamp='1303629018' post='2698331']Things move fast, I had to move faster.
[/quote]

Why move at all? What business is it of yours if he gets raided?

[Vladisvok Destino]

[quote name='Lord Levistus' timestamp='1303655246' post='2698461']
Why move at all? What business is it of yours if he gets raided?
[/quote]

What business is it of yours who Europa chooses to protect? This is hardly the first time an alliance has chosen to protect individuals and Europa obviously felt they wanted to protect this one.

[Lord Levistus]

[quote name='Vladisvok Destino' timestamp='1303659996' post='2698497']
What business is it of yours who Europa chooses to protect? This is hardly the first time an alliance has chosen to protect individuals and Europa obviously felt they wanted to protect this one.
[/quote]

If they didn't wish to be questioned and criticized then they shouldn't have gotten involved where they weren't needed and then announced it here making it our business. Once you've gotten to this point it becomes the business of the peanut gallery to critique your actions.

[Haflinger]

Levi, do you really want to get into an argument about what the proper limits of sovereignty are for alliances [i]again?[/i]

Those never work out with the result you want.

[MrHavok]

[quote name='Lord Levistus' timestamp='1303661974' post='2698514']
If they didn't wish to be questioned and criticized then they shouldn't have gotten involved where they weren't needed and then announced it here making it our business. Once you've gotten to this point it becomes the business of the peanut gallery to critique your actions.
[/quote]

Who are you to say that they shouldn't get involved or that their actions weren't needed

[Ernesto Che Guevara]

[quote name='Lord Levistus' timestamp='1303661974' post='2698514']
If they didn't wish to be questioned and criticized then they shouldn't have gotten involved where they weren't needed and then announced it here making it our business. Once you've gotten to this point it becomes the business of the peanut gallery to critique your actions.
[/quote]

I knew that anything I posted would be criticized and accepted that fact, which is why I haven't complained about it. I could be offering 3 million/150 tech to every nation on Planet Bob and somebody somewhere would !@#$%* about it. I know this, I understand this, and I accept this. We aren't on a high horse, we're just protecting somebody whom I saw as being treated unfairly by a bunch of children.

[Lord Levistus]

[quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1303664063' post='2698535']
Levi, do you really want to get into an argument about what the proper limits of sovereignty are for alliances [i]again?[/i]

Those never work out with the result you want.
[/quote]

[quote name='MrHavok' timestamp='1303665759' post='2698553']
Who are you to say that they shouldn't get involved or that their actions weren't needed
[/quote]

Haf, considering your Alliance is nothing more than an NPO Satellite Alliance, who are you to speak of sovereignty?

They're free to be stupid. They're free to do whatever they want to do, who am I to stop them? The Valhalla - Europa chain is so weak that iFOK wouldn't use it if it meant they could attack you. Just because I don't have a horse in this race doesn't mean I don't get to disagree with their position when they bring it here for discussion.

Everything in this forum is open for discussion, as noted by the length of prior threads and the fact that we can't request for threads to be locked, thus cutting short any said discussion. This is why I, as well as anyone else who wants to chime in, gets to give our two cents. This even means you get to white knight for them. Best of both worlds.