trimm

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1343779974' post='3017379'] I remember the last hegemony chasing ghosts instead of realizing all their allies were slipping away, it's interesting to see history repeat itself. [/quote] Trust me when I say that it is highly unlikely anyone in DH will be losing an ally after this war.

[quote name='Mogar' timestamp='1343758726' post='3017309'] To be fair, you should be looking in your own camp for those plotting against you DH, the people who admitted their feelings this war already aren't the threats you'll be facing next time around. [/quote] Why would DH need to worry? Their enemies are shattered and/or impotent, and none of their allies are willing to break ranks. They are pretty well secure on the top of the mountain for now. Also, I like this treaty.

[quote name='Lord Fingolfin' timestamp='1343672536' post='3017044'] Umbrella has over twice the number of 10k tech nations than WTF, anyone with any sense knows that they would cut through them like a hot knife through butter. If anything, the damage that WTF would do to Umbrella would be a boon and not a burden because it might bring down some of their dozens of 150k+ nations to a range where they could pose a more immediate threat to others [/quote] Well, that does kinda reinforce what the WTF guy said about Umbrella.

Somehow, I'm just willing to bet that GPF isn't the one who ended up making an error here.

[quote name='bcortell' timestamp='1341792747' post='3006943'] Shh. Don't tell them that. I thought you wanted to get closer to them. [/quote] Drat, now you remind me.

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1341778599' post='3006849'] How dare you declare war and force Gre to actually do something other than complain and hide behind PF! [/quote] Gre is not nearly the minority in PF that you think they are.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1341412060' post='3003385'] A bloo bloo, this isn't a pointless treaty announcement between alliances I like (which I would mindlessly hail). That's pretty much what I'm getting out of your participation here. Enjoy your grade school belly-achin', y'hear? [/quote] So it's only cool when you do it then, got it.

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1341371595' post='3003035'] Speaking for C&G here (but not really), sentiment noted and summarily filed under 'Don't give a !@#$'. [/quote] Yeah, I figured as much. You guys enjoy your mindless, pointless, hailfest, y'hear?

Forgive me for raining on your parade, but I don't find this nearly as hailworthy as you do.

[quote name='Leet Guy' timestamp='1340938268' post='2999760'] I, too, hate LeBron. Go get 'em BN. Cool to see there are still some other warriors left in PF. [/quote] Oh? Do tell.

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter whether you enter on an defensive or an offensive clause, since everyone decides to go to war with no concern for chaining, oA, or any other words in a treaty. War is basically totally arbitrary at this point.

Well handled IRON, good show.

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1340684456' post='2996611'] GOD supported our allies in a time of war. Great. C'mon, I'm sure you can think of something more evil than that that we've been doing. [/quote] That is an utterly disingenuous statement in the context that he was speaking in, and you know it.

[quote name='Fighter26' timestamp='1340673872' post='2996350'] How do you be so cool? [/quote] Truly a stinging rebuttal you have there. Someone ought to give you an award or something. I'll go with "or something"

This was stupid when NPO did it, and it is equally if not more stupid now.

I love you guys, but I don't know if I love this.

Don't worry Heft, you didn't miss much. Just another example of CN idiocy run amok.

You are all a lost generation.

Takes guts to be the guys at the tip of the spear Invicta, good luck.

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1339961833' post='2986580'] They didn't think they had overwhelming odds. A lot of them were saying they only needed a draw for it to be satisfactory. MK had to enlist virtually all of its allies and C&G's allies in order to pull it off. I'm sure a lot of them are regretting helping now since grudges are still held against the supporting forces. [/quote] It should also be mentioned that there are not insignificant bad feelings towards MK among some of the close allies of her close allies, bad feelings generated primarily due to the devil may care attitude of MK in it's actions and words.

[quote name='Iceknave' timestamp='1339730993' post='2984318'] @Trimm and JA Okay, let's play a game of what if. Let's suppose for a moment we didn't bother post up this thread that you're whining about. We'll be stuck with people !@#$%*ing just the same, only about how the big bad NPO is out to get someone, so yeah, you better watch your ass because NPO's back and quiet, which equals dangerous. Oh, wait, we did try that. And what happened? We got attacked and our upper tier thrashed for our efforts. Thanks, guys. Okay, so we posted, clearly stating our position in this matter and you're like WTF?!?!? Come on, guys. Make up your minds. We post, you !@#$%*, we don't post, you !@#$%*. Come on, what do we have to do to NOT get some !@#$%*ing for once? Can't you just be happy with us making it clear what OUR direction is? [/quote] I would be THRILLED with you making your direction clear to the world anytime that you like, if your position made one frakking ounce of sense to start with. What I said, and what I will continue to say, is that if you intended to support TLR regardless of your feelings about the CB, then you should have taken the smartest political position that said feelings about said CB left you and kept those feelings confined to private channels. Because coming out on the OWF with such a shamelessly ridiculous stance does nothing except open you up to hard feelings from one side and ridicule from the other. What then have you accomplished for yourselves?

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1339730712' post='2984311'] We obviously see this differently. [/quote] Obviously, and now you'll get to reap what you've sown. The side you are supporting is obviously discomforted by your open dismissal of their CB, the side you'll end up opposing thinks you look spineless for supporting a CB you claim to not be able to stand, and the rest of the world gets to call you foolish for thinking that neither of these things would result from you shouting to the rafters such an inherently contradictory position to begin with. Is this really the end result of Pacifican political thought? You guys really have changed in more than a few ways.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1339729662' post='2984288'] Spin implies that there are several people out there who have an interest in making it look like the NPO has different motives and goals than what it actually has, and would therefore engage in a campaign to twist perceptions to that effect. Don't try and sell some kind of !@#$%^&* of it not being "necessary". That is not the kind of world we live in. Our statement exists to prevent that spin from happening in the first place, and not as the base line upon which the spin will be applied. You are being deliberately obtuse in not recognizing that. If you feel it is indefensible, that's a cool story for you bro. We feel it is a pretty straightforward set of reasoning. [/quote] The world we live in is one where your words and actions will be "spun" reguardless. Knowing that, I would be careful about going onto the OWF and stating an openly contradictory position that OPENS itself to ridicule. What, did you really think that you could just come out and say, "Hey folks, don't like the CB at all, but gonna defend it anyway, mkay?" and not then have that position be the foundation of a heap of well deserved ridicule? How on Bob does it make sense to come out publicly with a stance that just about nobody is going to take at its face and then say that you were just trying to get ahead of the "Spin Doctors"? If your [i]actual position[/i] is so dumb to start with, then you are just inviting criticism and derision, not getting ahead of it. Yknow, I'm glad you guys don't like MK's CB here. I don't either. But to come in here and expect to be lauded for openly and clearly criticizing an act that you then in turn immediately commit yourself to defending is sheer lunacy man. If you guys are so committed to defending TLR if they support MK, then you should have taken the only reasonable, and I use that word loosely, option that actually made any sense and kept your feelings about the CB confined to private channels. Because folks here aren't going to let you have your cake and eat it too. THAT is the world that we live in brother.

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1339728964' post='2984269'] Are you actually naive enough to think anyone will buy this? [/quote] Selective quoting for the win! Let's look at what I [i]actually[/i] said. [quote]Nobody needs to spin this into anything, you just came right out of the gate looking and sounding absurd. [/quote] Let me interpret this for you since you seem to have totally missed it. No one is going to spin this, because the facts of it straight up make you look some kind of combination of foolish and weak. Spin implies that people will make your statement mean something other than what you actually said. That's not necessary here. What you said was "We REALLY don't like this CB, but we are going to stand behind it because, well, we support our allies etc." That's a rather indefensible statement to make out here on the OWF, and can be called so on its face with no need for spin. There, does that help?

[quote name='Letum' timestamp='1339728510' post='2984262'] You can feel this way if you want, however you don't get to make the call on our behalf. We do not feel it is black and white, and we feel we need to make our position on the matter known. If you want us to keep our traps shut then that's just too bad, because we aren't going to play by your whims. We want our position to be absolutely clear and not vulnerable to the kinds of spin doctors who might want to portray this as being MK's lapdog or portray it as us wanting to get at SF/VE. [/quote] Uhhh, newsflash sport, you look pretty silly (potentially) riding to war in defense of a CB that you've just labeled loudly and publicly in no uncertain terms as awful. Nobody needs to spin this into anything, you just came right out of the gate looking and sounding absurd.