Daimos

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1300882966' post='2673761'] The terms for CoJ are dumb. Terms for anyone on this side are unfair and not really justified given the nature of how it started, regardless of treaty connections. I didn't expect to see those logs in public but okay whatever. Umbrella can argue about strategy as much as they want but Doomhouse still attacked NPO without provocation or cause and didn't really bother to present any cause, either - or presented so many possible causes that no one could tell. - Heft [/quote] Will echo this. I support continued war until all alliance gets white peace.

The only acceptable term is white peace to all. Anything less is to admit to the aggressors this is acceptable behavior. This cannot be allowed no matter the cost. If there is a war my alliance and allies can choose to make it last stand it is unequivocally this one.

[quote name='Kyaris' timestamp='1300688412' post='2671977'] I'm pretty sure this is the stated reason in the DoW. A pre-emptive strategic attack to prevent NPO's re-rise to Hegemony, which is a direct threat to us[/quote] Pretty naïve comment given NPO’s current political stature. I find it hard to believe that this is what DH leadership was thinking.

Not sure why DH even bothers asking for our upper tiers to come out of peace mode. It did not happen during the Armageddon war and that conflict we were in much worst shape politically and militarily.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1300382636' post='2667837'] This is bull. The Cult of Justitia--which was comprised of me and one other Vox guy at the time--was founded on Red as soon as Vox (NPO's 9-month enemy with spies left) suspended its charter in what most people viewed as me pissing in NPO's Cheerios one more time while they were stuck in peace terms. In fact, while we had an open hand to Pacifica, the relationship was antagonistic at first; this is the first post in their embassy on our forum following Cortath's displeasure that I used some logs of him [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=62405"]in an OWF thread[/url]: NPO did not owe CoJ the time of day much less diplomatic relations or apologies or invitations to come sleepover and play Twister. We are adults. And even while we did not love each other, I worked to make relations with NPO better, not the other way around, and that's the way it should have been. NPO was defeated and wrecked, and had no reason to talk to anyone other than to make sure the latest round of reps was ready. The Cult of Justitia are not conniving double-talkers, and when I said in Vox and in CoJ that the end of Karma meant a new time to reshape things, that did not mean marginalizing NPO for all time, it meant doing what is in my power to alter Pacfica's path by engaging them actively to bring about a relationship with PAcifica that benefited each of us, and if MK and Umbrella and GOONS were sitting around waiting for NPO to come make nice when NPO had already paid their dues, then maybe they should have taken initiative like Cult of Justitia. While you sat around waiting for the right moment to pounce out of paranoia, Coj's tactics by contrast have created an inclusive, egalitarian system on Red where the Senate is shared and rotated, and NPO votes for micro-AA candidates and supports trade. With me, the friggin' host of TWiP, and NPO. The responsibility for this war and your actions rests squarely on your shoulders. Own it. [/quote] Much respect to this man's diplomatic skills. /Salute!

Congratulations to RoK on peace. You took a bullet for an ally. Much respect. /salute!

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300110827' post='2664502'] Now a day after this thread was made the polar part of the war draws to a close and suddenly this thread make a lot more sense. Good old NPO you amuse me so. [/quote] Thank you for making me laugh

Congratulations to peace Polar. You and your allies fought very well despite the odds. A very impressive display. /salute!

“It will be unpopular. The timing will be unpopular. The whole thing is unpopular. But it is the right thing to do.”

"To be a star, you must shine your own light". GL RoK!

Not sure about the rest of SF being terrible but any alliance who joins a war on the side who is outgunned and outmanned has my respect. My perception of RoK has changed on this war.

I do not mind another alliance entering against us. The more the merrier! I just wish it was an alliance I do not respect. I believe NoR entered without malice and is simply honoring a treaty. Hope we give you a good fight.

Mushroom Kingdom had center stage after the Armageddon War. With NPO in the background the audience waited with bated breath for MK’s solo performance. To the disappointment of the audience, MK just stood there frozen, not moving. As the crowd grew restless, MK in a state of panic grabbed NPO back to center stage. Muttering, I cannot do this without you. Seeing NPO at center stage again, the audience applauded their approval. The true star of the show is back on the spotlight. Now the show can truly begin.

Thought this thread was going to provide a lot of juicy thought provoking posts. So far it has been a disappointment. I predict this one will not pass 10 pages. Not on par from the other topics that have the NPO as the subject. For those who are looking for good reading in regards to this war. Check out the blog of Antoine Roquentin of Umbrella topic "Summarization". He and The Crymson King of TPF had some good debate on why DH preempt NPO.

I am sure both sides made some tough compromises to reach peace. Congratulations to all involve.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' timestamp='1298703712' post='2645298'] This is "Karma Done Right" [/quote] Tell me what the alliances who fought us during the Karma War did not do right.

[quote name='DogeWilliam' timestamp='1298673860' post='2644981'] I think the point is that NPO did not make a dynamic shift into a new form following Karma. They were the same alliance, merely in the background and not dictating foreign conflicts anymore. In other words, they should have learned something from Karma and tried to radically changed themselves. Seek completely new allies and integrate themselves into a new world. But hey, maybe no one gave them a chance. Or maybe they didn't try. Either way, they didn't do enough to keep them out of Karma part deux. Cause let's be honest NPO was very arrogant in the past and plenty of people wanted to see them hurt again, and they didn't endear themselves to stop it. I think NpO is a different case. As in they are simply getting a good beatdown. There are many who want revenge on them as well, but not all of them are actually fighting NpO. [/quote] This war is not "Karma part deux". To call it that probably insults some of the alliances that fought against us during that war.

I doubt declaring neutrality was an option to NPO. Not with the possibility of our allies (specifically TPF) being drag into a war (NpO vs VE). My opinion.

I might download PS for this. Sounds cool.

[quote name='Baldr' timestamp='1297799932' post='2634608'] As you can see, they are attacking you anyway, just as they said they would do. Yes, I think you can assume that both the members and the leaders meant those words. When they gave "peace", they didn't want to end the war, they wanted to collect the huge reps. Now that they got them, they continue with the war. Eventually, they'll try to get you to pay huge reps again. And if you agree, then once you pay them off, they'll attack you again. [/quote] There will be alot of upset Pacificans if our leadership agree to pay reps for this war. I do not think the leadership in DH expect to get reps either. So expect a very long long war.

It is amazing to witness people post in here and point out NPO's pass evils yet they turn a blind eye on the evil that is currently being committed. The reason it is being done to NPO therefore it is ok does not justify the despicable act. Any unbiased person can see that. The real tragedy in this war is the Mushroom Kingdom. You had the moral highground after the Karma War. You had public support. You had the respect of friends and foes alike. You were basically sitting pretty in this game. To see it so foolishly discarded over vengeance, boredom, over hate, unforgiving. Proves MK is no different than any other alliance. I am sure the wolves in sheep clothing will use this against you to plot your downfall and there is no one to blame but yourselves.

[quote name='White Chocolate' timestamp='1297214643' post='2626320'] As hard as it is for some people to believe, there are actually many, many new leaders who have joined our world since NPO and company has actually done anything to anyone. Look at it from the perspective of someone who joined our world and was recruited into NPO, (something NPO is very good aT) - oh lets just say in the past 300 days to be conservative. They join a well organized and large group. The greatest alliance in the world (obviously, we're all in love with the first alliance we join, at least for a short time) and then - for NO reason at all (literally - remember, it's not *this* nations fault NPO was mean in the past) some evil group called DOOMHOUSE and friends attacks! Regardless of whether or not the leaders of NPO are good or bad, they are politically intelligent. The politically intelligent thing to do in this situation for NPO is to milk it internally for all it's worth! And, as anyone who has been in a war knows, there is nothing more effective for uniting a group of people than joining together to fight off an attacker. DOOMHOUSE, there is no doubt in my mind that you've done more to raise the loyalty the members of NPO feel to the organization and also keep the hate flames burning than anything one single emperor could manage. Might be a good plan to not make it worse through peace demands. Yes, my view of NPO's enemies has changed. Either they are NOT as politically smart as I once imagined or continuing this circle of revenge is exactly what they want. Either way, NOT what I want to support. [/quote] This. I joined NPO without putting much thought of it. To me it was an alliance in a game I wanted to try. Did not know it’s history. I became curious of NPO’s history during the Karma War. I wanted to know the root of my opponents hate towards my alliance. I came to a conclusion that it was justified. If NPO did what they did in the past I would have protested and probably left but they have not done so since I joined so I stayed. I respected MK’s crusade during the Karma war but this war changed my perception towards them. MK is just any other alliance not above hate, paranoia or vengeance. My leadership does not need to convince me to fight. My nation was attacked unprovoked. No self respecting comrade is going to back down on this act of aggression. Not a single one.

I sympathize with you Remlin. Live and learn.

Comrades, words are wasted to an opponent blinded by hatred. Be thankful knowing that we fight for our right to exist. There is no greater cause.

This is sorely needed. Very much appreciated Seipher!