New Pacific Order Reps Race

[Nizzle]

Oh my God. I just figured it out.

Karma has found what they believe to be a foolproof way to get NPO to disband or suffer FAN/FARK as a way of getting the ultimate revenge and never having them be a threat again. Well, some in Karma anyway.

Seriously, guys, you are looking at this situation like NPO is dealing with old friends. You seem convinced that you are trustworthy enough to your enemy, and that they will willingly let all of their nations be decimated for a "few weeks" and then be saddled with reparations. I'm just not getting where you see the problem. Oh, wait, tables turning. I forgot.

[Rafael Nadal]

I see that Vladimir has completely ignored the fact that Londo and I have both hinted at how light the base reps figure is.

[bigwoody]

I see that Vladimir has completely ignored the fact that Londo and I have both hinted at how light the base reps figure is.

I think even if the base reps amount is 0, its not very long before (assuming the rate in the OP stays the same) they get big enough NPO will refuse to accept them even if this is all there was.

[magicninja]

I see that Vladimir has completely ignored the fact that Londo and I have both hinted at how light the base reps figure is.

Hint away. Give them the terms or they won't believe anything you say. NPO is skeptical by nature.

[Scarlet Ellen Red]

New Pacific Order Reps Race

Day 3

Old Total

307 Nation Violations

921 Million

30,700 Tech

+4 days of terms

Today's Add-on's

157 Nation Violations

471 Million

15,700 Tech

+ 2 days of terms

Total so Far

464 Nation Violations

1.392 Billion

46,400 Tech

+6 days of terms

Comments:

I Have included the full logs, for anyone who has not read them yet:

Gen_Lee: i got the job of messenger

Gen_Lee: the Karma front on NPO has some instructions regarding peace moded nations you can take em or leave em:

Gen_Lee: -NPO has five days to move all their nations out peace mode with zero penalty.

Moo-Spock: we will never move our banks

Moo-Spock: never have

Gen_Lee: -6th Day and on:.For every NPO nation above 5k NS in peace mode, 3 mil and 100 tech in reparations will be added to any peace terms, per day. The duration of all peace terms will also be increased by 2 days for any day any NPO nation above 5k is in peace after the 5th day.

Gen_Lee: ok

Gen_Lee: thought i should let you know

Gen_Lee: talk to ya later

Moo-Spock: the other nations have rotated out of PM on a regular basis, just like every other alliance

Moo-Spock: I will post this for our BR to discuss

Gen_Lee: alright

Gen_Lee: oh for record sake, clock starts now 5/21 11:38 server time

----

I am sticking to the exact words of the logs, so at 11:38 server time each day I go count real-time display of all nations above 5k ns. The reason you see 307 violations is that I did not post this target till the second day of violations, so the day before there were 150 violations. Day 2 there was 157 so 150 plus 157 = 307.

----

Clear up some mis-informed thoughts, according to the logs, these are not the terms being offered. This penalty is add-on to any terms given. So for example if they agree to 1 billion in reps, this amount will be added on top of that amount. Most people know this, i just want to state this aloud so everyone knows this.

----

Also, while I will take no side in this argument, I will point out that my observation seems to be that NPO will pay a fee for keeping there only means of rebuilding quickly, safe from harm (banks), and they will pay a fee for making sure that there nations do not drop any faster in NS, Infra, so on... At some point in a war in CN you can only pound a enemy alliance nations down in the ground so far. After that, it becomes a moot point of blowing up some tech and keeping those said nations out of peace mode so they can't escape and possibly start rebuilding.

----

Also to Schatt... KingSrgt is correct. Also I am not trying to get the total number of exact nations the violated. If I wanted to show exact nation violations I would have either created a list or i would have simply stated "Exact nations that violated."

Your missing the point, I kept a number of how many nations were in violation of such a fine for a just in case purpose. Its like I am listing the number of tickets given. It doesn’t matter if jim bob gets 17 tickets, the total number of tickets won't go up only 1, it will go up 17 times.

This just in case method is if there is any change to the terms. Such as if Karma comes a long and says: "We will increase the number of reps from 100 tech to 125 tech for all nations that violated since the first fine." It will be easy for me to just plug in the numbers and get a instant answer then try and take the numbers from totals and rework them based on percentages.

Or going about the tickets method in a little more in depth. Look at it as if Karma is writing each nation a ticket. "Total Nation Violations" is the total of tickets over time. If Karma writes 10 tickets a day, for a week. Even if the same nations are getting tickets, at the end of the week there is still a total of 70 tickets. So "Total Nation Violations" means how many Violations in total there are, not the total number of specific nations who violated. If I wanted to list the number of specific nations who violated it I would have called it "Total Nations Violated" see the deference in words? For someone who plays a awful lot on words, I didn't think this would fool someone like you. But hey, can't be right 100% of the time.

----

Vladimir, your words are always food for thought here. I enjoy your works, but I have to be fair on this. NPO can refuse these terms, but that does not mean there off the table. I have tried refraining from bringing this point up, as I still have love for old friends of mine back in my Pacifican days, but just because the Order does not want something, does not mean it will not get it. So you can out right refuse these terms... but that doesn't exactly mean that Karma will say "Oh okay that’s fine... we understand we will take them off the table right now." No... It means that until both parties agree to take them off the table, there still on the table and if they stay on the table and become your only option of leaving is to accept these terms, then War will continue till you do. Remember its not what the order wants anymore, those days are over. Its what everyone wants now.

----

Now if anyone had some comments towards me past page 11, I didn't get to them during this issue... why? Well, I got on pretty late so I couldn't read all 20 pages before it was time to update. Don't worry, I will try to get to them next issue

See you next issue <3

P.S.: >_> you flamed

[Disclaimer: Now this topic isn't a debate about those terms, as the title says, I made this to inform everyone what those terms would be, if added up. I am simply informing you what they are, so please don't write mis-informing reports. I am not here to debate how good/bad/ok/not-ok the terms are. I am just simply writing what they would be. So please don't throw tons of flames out there. Pwease ]

[magicninja]

I've been going over past wars in which Sparta took part of with Q allies and all I see is 1000 tech from GR in WoTC. Can anyone from GR confirm this? If so, I think we can agree that's insignificantly small. I'm just trying to clarify this.

No amount of reps is insignificant....apparently anyway.

[Mogar]

Total so Far

464 Nation Violations

1.392 Billion

46,400 Tech

+6 days of terms

I don't see NPO paying these, considering within 2 days they'll be more than the actual terms supposedly are.

[BDRocks]

Might just want to update on the first page

[Matthew Conrad]

No amount of reps is insignificant....apparently anyway.

I don't understand where this stems from. The debate about reps is based on how unfairly heavy ones shouldn't be given.

[D34th]

I'm no NPO supporter *shock*, but I have to say the 'ole "come out of peace mode" line is stale and the fact you're dealing with the very folks that invented it should be reason enough to conclude they know what happens next and thus will not be coming out of peace mode. If the goal is to get those nations out of peace mode, demanding they come out of peace mode or face penalty isn't the best way to go about things in my opinion.

Pretty much what I said in first page but much better worded. mpol you won this topic

I love the PR "masters" of Karma posting in this thread also.

All this discussion made me remember of a picture that I said someday:

[Zombie Glaucon]

The more appropriate analogy is if a kidnapper proceeds to barricade himself in a house, is it considered appropriate for the Police/SWAT/whoever shows up to tell the kidnapper the longer he stays in the house the higher his fine is going to be and the more time he's going to spend in jail?

I'm not going for a direct analogy. I'd like to see if, in principle, all those crying hypocrite think it is always hypocritical to do to someone what they have done to someone else. It is obvious that it is not always hypocritical, but I think people get caught up in trying to get a "gotcha, I"M SO SMART" moment.

[Vol Navy]

No amount of reps is insignificant....apparently anyway.

No no MN, you are missing the point. It's not the reps they actually took, it's the support they gave NPO for a year or more that allowed NPO to commit all these crimes. That's why Sparta is being destroyed in this war by Karma. They propped up NPO and it's Hegemony for too long and their past crimes are many. The blood on NPO's hands is also on Sparta's for being in Q with NPO for so long, that blood can only be washed away by losing pixels and paying reps.

Oh....wait a second....Sparta is part of the side asking for reps for crimes they supported and actually helped commit.

As to some other posts in this thread.

I do have to admit that I find it funny that some here think the Karma coalition will stick together for years fighting this war if they have to.

I'll be surprised if some part of Karma isn't rolling another part of it before summer is over.

Edit=spelling

Edited May 29, 2009 by Vol Navy

[Matthew Conrad]

No no MN, you are missing the point. It's not the reps they actually took, it's the support they gave NPO for a year or more that allowed NPO to commit all these crimes. That's why Sparta is being destroyed in this war by Karma. They propped up NPO and it's Hegemony for too long and their past crimes are many. The blood on NPO's hands is also on Sparta's for being in Q with NPO for so long, that blood can only be washed away by losing pixels and paying reps.

Oh....wait a second....Sparta is part of the side asking for reps for crimes they supported and actually helped commit.

As to some other posts in this thread.

I do have to admit that I find it funny that some here think the Karma coalition will stick together for years fighting this war if they have to.

I'll be surprised if some part of Karma isn't rolling another part of it before summer is over.

Edit=spelling

Way to miss the whole point of my post wherein I wanted to clarify something someone posted since it didn't go into detail in terms of hard numbers. Your attempts at lashing out at whomever you can find is now so obvious its laughable at best. If you want to discuss reasons for entering the war feel free to pm me or find me on IRC.

[bbrownso]

Anyone know where 50 million got added to the add-on?

New Pacific Order Reps Race

Day 2

Old Total

150 Nation Violations

400 Million

15,000 Tech

+2 days of terms

Today's Add-on's

157 Nations Violated

471 million

15,700 tech

+ 2 days of terms

Total so Far

307 Nation Violations

921 million

30,700 tech

+4 days of terms

400 mil + 471 mil = 871 million. 871 =/= 921

[Sir Paul]

Well, I might as well throw my 2 cents in:

Karma's terms, as presented to the New Pacific Order, are as follows:

X + Y = Total Payment

Where:

X = 3 million and 100 tech per day for every nation over 5,000 national strength in peace mode

Y = An unknown quantity to be determined at an unknown later date

I fully understand that as the New Pacific Order keeps nations in Peace Mode, the amount of reperations owed to the coalition known as Karma increases. However, I'm pretty sure that Y is a really big negative number. By my estimation Karma owes us several trillion (perhaps more) for damage done to the Order in defense of a spy, so it would be irresponsible for the Order NOT to rack up extra terms to help even things out.

When Karma wants to discuss peace terms, I'm sure the Emperor would be happy to sit with them. Until then, it is always your prerogative to keep the meter running. I'm not too worried though, because accoding to a missive from the voice of Karma "We will not impose draconian terms." I'm sure once peace terms are offered and X is added to Y all will agree that a fair number is reached.

[TypoNinja]

Since some people might be shocked at the sheer numbers were tossing around Some perspective. (A billion isn't nearly as much as you think it is when dealing with an alliance this size.)

The top 60 NPO nations (lets be conservative here) sitting in peace mode could, immediately upon exiting peace mode push.

1.08 billion in cash

and

18,000 tech

Thats 60 nations, six aid slots a nation and a 3mil and 50 tech per slot.

Thats right, over a billion in cash plus tech, on day one after the war.

The current penalty accrued could be paid off in one aid cycle.

Edited May 29, 2009 by TypoNinja

[Sumeragi]

Side-note: Your user title is the worst thing ever. )):

Yaoi is the truth. Get used to it

-From the biggest fujoshi in CN

[magicninja]

Since some people might be shocked at the sheer numbers were tossing around Some perspective. (A billion isn't nearly as much as you think it is when dealing with an alliance this size.)

The top 60 NPO nations (lets be conservative here) sitting in peace mode could, immediately upon exiting peace mode push.

1.08 billion in cash

and

18,000 tech

Thats 60 nations, six aid slots a nation and a 3mil and 50 tech per slot.

Thats right, over a billion in cash plus tech, on day one after the war.

The current penalty accrued could be paid off in one aid cycle.

What about after a month? ~8billion and 300k tech?

Edited May 29, 2009 by magicninja

[Roadie]

Since some people might be shocked at the sheer numbers were tossing around Some perspective. (A billion isn't nearly as much as you think it is when dealing with an alliance this size.)

The top 60 NPO nations (lets be conservative here) sitting in peace mode could, immediately upon exiting peace mode push.

1.08 billion in cash

and

18,000 tech

Thats 60 nations, six aid slots a nation and a 3mil and 50 tech per slot.

Thats right, over a billion in cash plus tech, on day one after the war.

The current penalty accrued could be paid off in one aid cycle.

This presumes they have the money. I can tell you that being at war for 5 weeks puts a pinch on the finances.

[Rafael Nadal]

Well, I might as well throw my 2 cents in:

Karma's terms, as presented to the New Pacific Order, are as follows:

X + Y = Total Payment

Where:

X = 3 million and 100 tech per day for every nation over 5,000 national strength in peace mode

Y = An unknown quantity to be determined at an unknown later date

I fully understand that as the New Pacific Order keeps nations in Peace Mode, the amount of reperations owed to the coalition known as Karma increases. However, I'm pretty sure that Y is a really big negative number. By my estimation Karma owes us several trillion (perhaps more) for damage done to the Order in defense of a spy, so it would be irresponsible for the Order NOT to rack up extra terms to help even things out.

When Karma wants to discuss peace terms, I'm sure the Emperor would be happy to sit with them. Until then, it is always your prerogative to keep the meter running. I'm not too worried though, because accoding to a missive from the voice of Karma "We will not impose draconian terms." I'm sure once peace terms are offered and X is added to Y all will agree that a fair number is reached.

We have discussed peace terms. If you're going to hold out and test our will, then I bid you good luck.

Also, Y is a known quantity, just not by you. Y is more of an if/then statement. If you comply by X terms, then you get Y terms. You must comply with X before you can get to Y.

Comply with X, and we can all come to the table and haggle over Y.

[bbrownso]

What about after a month? ~8billion and 300k tech?

At the present rate of 471 million/day (plus the original 400 million) the total after 30 days comes to $14,109,000,000

Tech would come to 470,300.

Edit: added 50 million.

Edited May 29, 2009 by Brandon Simonson

[Scarlet Ellen Red]

Anyone know where 50 million got added to the add-on?

400 mil + 471 mil = 871 million. 871 =/= 921

woops. Don't know how i didn't see that. My bad, 400 is actually 450. You can check the math yourself. I just somehow put 0 instead of 5. Dang keypad. Anyway, i am fixing it now.

[Rafael Nadal]

This presumes they have the money. I can tell you that being at war for 5 weeks puts a pinch on the finances.

They have the money. They have several nations with well over a billion in warchests.

[magicninja]

I don't understand where this stems from. The debate about reps is based on how unfairly heavy ones shouldn't be given.

No, Reps for the war will be fine if they are heavy. In some ways I won;t argue that NPO deserves it but tacking on what may amount to 8-10 billion and 100's of k's of tech should seem outlandish to anybody with a working brain.

[Roadie]

More importantly, whether it's doable, not doable, harsh, not harsh, not as harsh, hypocritical or any other debate going on here is completely beside the point.

The overriding fact is that these preterms have made peace impossible. I suppose if they had come out of peace mode immediately then they wouldn't have had to pay these reps, but did you really expect them to to panic and come out of peace mode?