Yggdrazil Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Karma is saying come out now, take you punishment and get your reparations and pay those and your will save some infra, tech and money. There are things more important than infra/tech/money which Karma seems to have failed to consider and maybe the evil NPO is quided by this concept now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Tolkien Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Wow 12 days in and the NPO are not moving out of peace mode.Guess this idea failed. NPO :1 Karma:0 If they would rather rot in peace mode and lose days/weeks/months of growth to their nations, then I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithPie Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 If they would rather rot in peace mode and lose days/weeks/months of growth to their nations, then I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. why dont you get out of peace mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karthikking Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 because to them infra>friends. Anyways they will always be under attack. Due to staggers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithPie Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 because to them infra>friends.Anyways they will always be under attack. Due to staggers. Yep thats why people still keep getting into peace mode. If your plan is to stagger them you are failing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Karma has turned this into a profession. They say X, which always sounds nice and gets them some applause and spreads the belief that this is what Karma as a coalition is going to do, and then when it comes to acting on it 'it's just an opinion', so they can take any action they wish to take as well, even if it's the complete opposite of what they said they would do. We've seen this numerous times already, as their various 'we want NPO to be 15 million/10 million/7 million/5 million/unsanctioned/dead' statements, one moving to the next as the supposedly final goal was reached; not to mention the Gramlins/IRON incident that was noted in this thread. So in this case they say 'let us attack you and get peace in a few weeks', only they don't say it, individuals have 'opinions' that this is maybe what will happen, but Karma has said nothing on the matter. There is no Karma policy that there will only be a 'few weeks' or war, this is, for all intents and purposes, a figment of our imagination. And indeed, if it was only going to be a few weeks of war, is there any conceivable reason that they would not have announced at some point over the past two weeks since they released these pre-terms? So when people ask 'why doesn't the NPO just come out and take its few rounds of war', it's because that isn't how these pre-terms work. They don't say that there will only be a few rounds of wars -- they don't say that the war will ever end at all. To Karma, all these statements about when peace could be achieved are not but dust in the wind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 (edited) If they would rather rot in peace mode and lose days/weeks/months of growth to their nations, then I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. But they will have been able to claim that they were able to force Karma to retract or lesson in severity a pledge, don't you see that that is more important than anything! For NPO's terms to equal in scale MK's per nation, they would have to pay 400,000 tech. And that was for a war we didn't start. Needless to say, I'm not concerned that these are anywhere near too large for them to be able to reasonably pay yet. Edited June 7, 2009 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 Karma has turned this into a profession. They say X, which always sounds nice and gets them some applause and spreads the belief that this is what Karma as a coalition is going to do, and then when it comes to acting on it 'it's just an opinion', so they can take any action they wish to take as well, even if it's the complete opposite of what they said they would do. We've seen this numerous times already, as their various 'we want NPO to be 15 million/10 million/7 million/5 million/unsanctioned/dead' statements, one moving to the next as the supposedly final goal was reached; not to mention the Gramlins/IRON incident that was noted in this thread.So in this case they say 'let us attack you and get peace in a few weeks', only they don't say it, individuals have 'opinions' that this is maybe what will happen, but Karma has said nothing on the matter. There is no Karma policy that there will only be a 'few weeks' or war, this is, for all intents and purposes, a figment of our imagination. And indeed, if it was only going to be a few weeks of war, is there any conceivable reason that they would not have announced at some point over the past two weeks since they released these pre-terms? So when people ask 'why doesn't the NPO just come out and take its few rounds of war', it's because that isn't how these pre-terms work. They don't say that there will only be a few rounds of wars -- they don't say that the war will ever end at all. To Karma, all these statements about when peace could be achieved are not but dust in the wind. So I ask this question that you have yet to answer yet again: If releasing the terms you are going to give and conditions with which you will end the war is such a great idea, why did NPO rarely or never do it when it was in a position to do so? You have yet to figure out or just to refuse to acknowledge that actions are normally based on reasonable speculation, not theoretical extremes. You're really just screwing yourself over by doing so, so I'm not shedding any tears. B) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Tolkien Posted June 7, 2009 Report Share Posted June 7, 2009 why dont you get out of peace mode? I do not understand. I'm in peace mode? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) So I ask this question that you have yet to answer yet again: If releasing the terms you are going to give and conditions with which you will end the war is such a great idea, why did NPO rarely or never do it when it was in a position to do so?You have yet to figure out or just to refuse to acknowledge that actions are normally based on reasonable speculation, not theoretical extremes. You're really just screwing yourself over by doing so, so I'm not shedding any tears. B) He wasn't saying anything about releasing conditions being a good or bad idea nor was he saying anything about why NPO has or hasn't in the past. His post has nothing to do with that at all. He was simply explaining why NPO hasn't come out of peace mode. Edited June 8, 2009 by Roadie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Roadie is correct that your response has absolutely nothing to do with what I said. But nevertheless, in the interests of correcting the rapidly growing mythology of Pacifican history, I will respond. So I ask this question that you have yet to answer yet again: If releasing the terms you are going to give and conditions with which you will end the war is such a great idea, why did NPO rarely or never do it when it was in a position to do so?You have yet to figure out or just to refuse to acknowledge that actions are normally based on reasonable speculation, not theoretical extremes. You're really just screwing yourself over by doing so, so I'm not shedding any tears. B) I think you have us confused for someone else on this matter. The NPO has never given pre-terms, we gave terms -- accept the terms and get peace, not 'accept the terms and then... we'll see'. The only conceivable exception is FAN, which was a rather extraordinary case, and as I recall our policies there were (and to an extent remain) one of the main rallying cries of Karma; and even then it was entirely different and nowhere near as ridiculous as this (for a start FAN refused to enter any negotiations and discuss terms at all (and ruled out ever accepting them), making it somewhat difficult to present them). In cases like this actions are usually based neither on reasonable speculation nor on theoretical extremes. They're based on concrete negotiations and written contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yvl Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) I still don't get when Karma has officially given those sorts of pre-terms. Wouldn't there have been a thread here about it? Or something in the Wiki? Without any of this, then, yes, it is unofficial, and just individual opinions. Edited June 8, 2009 by Prince Yvl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 (edited) He wasn't saying anything about releasing conditions being a good or bad idea nor was he saying anything about why NPO has or hasn't in the past. His post has nothing to do with that at all. He was simply explaining why NPO hasn't come out of peace mode. Actually it has quite a bit to do with it as that is what he's saying Karma should do. I think you have us confused for someone else on this matter. The NPO has never given pre-terms, we gave terms -- accept the terms and get peace, not 'accept the terms and then... we'll see'. The only conceivable exception is FAN, which was a rather extraordinary case, and as I recall our policies there were (and to an extent remain) one of the main rallying cries of Karma; and even then it was entirely different and nowhere near as ridiculous as this (for a start FAN refused to enter any negotiations and discuss terms at all (and ruled out ever accepting them), making it somewhat difficult to present them).In cases like this actions are usually based neither on reasonable speculation nor on theoretical extremes. They're based on concrete negotiations and written contracts. And GATO, they had to accept not to protect nations that you deemed for perma-ZI for using peace mode. And of course the whole issue of not using nukes. Why didn't you ever give terms ahead of time in exchange for the opponent not using nukes? This really isn't any different from FAN at all, as the only pre-term is you have to leave peace mode for terms. Everything else isn't a pre-term, just a statement about what the terms will be. Edited June 8, 2009 by Azaghul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I still don't get when Karma has officially given those sorts of pre-terms. Wouldn't there have been a thread here about it? Or something in the Wiki? Without any of this, then, yes, it is unofficial, and just individual opinions. It was relayed to Moo via IRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yvl Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 It was relayed to Moo via IRC. By whom? And are there logs of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 By whom? And are there logs of this? http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?a...p;showentry=717 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prince Yvl Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?a...p;showentry=717 Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roadie Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Actually it has quite a bit to do with it as that is what he's saying Karma should do. Perhaps I read his post wrong, but I didn't see him saying that Karma should or shouldn't do anything. *shrugs* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SithPie Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Now Karma says their aren't any pre-terms... Then what the hell is this thread about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inquisitor Tolkien Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Now Karma says their aren't any pre-terms...Then what the hell is this thread about. The growth of the total reparations, mayhaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChairmanHal Posted June 8, 2009 Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 Now Karma says their aren't any pre-terms...Then what the hell is this thread about. 64 pages, more or less.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Ellen Red Posted June 8, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2009 I wanted to say real quick, i have the base number jotted down, but i have to run to do some stuff (occ: RL calls me for a little while) so when i get back i will add all the numbers up and everything, so update will be a little late tonight on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarlet Ellen Red Posted June 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 New Pacific Order Reps Race Day 13 Old Total 1713 Nation Violations 5.139 Billion 171,300 Tech +24 days of terms Today's Add-on's 138 Nations Violated 414 Million 13,800 Tech + 2 days of terms Total so Far 1851 Nation Violations 5.553 Billion 185,100 Tech +26 days of terms Comments: Sorry there almost a day late, (occ: i wrote the numbers down and had to run and i just was able to get on, so thats why there late) and sorry to the mods if i get this many posts in a row. >_< but i wanted to bumb this so people won't forget i didn't just drop the topic. [Disclaimer: Now this topic isn't a debate about those terms, as the title says, I made this to inform everyone what those terms would be, if added up. I am simply informing you what they are, so please don't write mis-informing reports. I am not here to debate how good/bad/ok/not-ok the terms are. I am just simply writing what they would be. So please don't throw tons of flames out there. Pwease ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shahenshah Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 2nd Day in row today I think for the first time since the war that NPO attackers lost more score than NPO itself. This whole pre-terms and peace strategy seams to be leaning a bit towards NPO's side atm, it might swing the other side tomorrow, its war, lets see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime minister Johns Posted June 9, 2009 Report Share Posted June 9, 2009 I am waiting for the pre-terms to exceed the total amount of money and tech in the game. It is pretty obvious that they are not going for it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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