Protected Nation

[iMatt]

It was not removed because I didnt like what was said it was removed because of opsec. We cant tlak about some things in our members area because we have a spy and it would be posted here. Members are free to say what they like. you are just not free to see it.

Opsec is important, I can understand if the reasons were opsec this was necessary. Tighter lips and greater security of information is required when you know anything not meant for public boards will be posted up on here.

[The Corrupt Teacher]

That, and some of GR's allies weren't convinced GGA had truly changed.

Well it looks like we were right

That's just disgusting. I cannot begin to imagine what it must be like to lead an alliance, but not be allowed to run it. I suppose I take it for granted that Sparta, MK, GR, or any of our other allies would never EVER do anything like that to us.

You want me to admit in public that Athens is actually a MK puppet? Only an alliance in a state of total and abject failure would admit to such a pitiable method of leadership.

If rsox won't admit it publically I will admit that Athens is an MK puppet. Of course you'll have a hard time finding strings but shh...

[Delta1212]

The thing is Gork its my home. And its not for you to decide if what was posted there was worse. You dont get to see it and that is the part that you dont like.

I guess your members don't get to decide if what they have to say is worse than being censored either. I'd ask if they agreed with you, but, well, you know...

[Nintenderek]

Bob the fact that Vox has done this is not what I have an issue with. It’s that people think its ok to do this and feed on it like candy.

Really? Because I seem to remember an incident where GGA was caught spying on Vox by your orders. Something involving Misr of all people, wasn't it? To get out the names of "leaders" from the time? Certainly, you remember this, or will I have to go back and find a topic about it?

[Bob]

I must say, editing posts in a general membership area to combat spies has to make conducting business rather hard. Short of actually giving spies information, I can't think of too many better ways to play into their hands

OOC: If you're going to claim so fervently GGA is your home, you might want to edit your user title and alliance affiliation.

OOC: Screenshotted for the win.

Also, editing posts to combat spies is ineffective and only serves to cause issues like this, and when the very root of the issue is that shaneprice was ran out of GGA on a rail because he spoke out against relations with NPO at the point at which they are, its difficult to believe that you aren't willing to censure regular members/exgovt/govt, its not that far of a leap at all.

[Doitzel]

When did it become an excepted thing on PB to go into someone’s home and take pictures of their family and post them on the OWF?It’s an invasion of ones privacy of the worst kind.

You mean like you did when you coerced Yala Misr into gathering intel on us??

Give me a break. You're so full of crap. If you put half as much effort into actually running your alliance as you do chasing ghosts and jumping at shadows maybe it wouldn't be in its current position. You try pawning everything off on us but that's just an attempt to shift yourselves into the victim seat. A poor one, at that. This has nothing to do with spying and everything to do with karma.

[Archon]

It was not removed because I didnt like what was said it was removed because of opsec. We cant tlak about some things in our members area because we have a spy and it would be posted here. Members are free to say what they like. you are just not free to see it.

An alliance forum is like a home. Your family is there. They laugh together, they cry together, and they fight with each other.

When did it become an excepted thing on PB to go into someone’s home and take pictures of their family and post them on the OWF?It’s an invasion of ones privacy of the worst kind.

When did the members of PB start to feed on thing of this type like hungry dogs?

When did tabloid journalism become a good thing?

There are alliances out there I think of as the enemy and want nothing more that to see them gone. But never, would I wish for their home to be invaded and pictures of their CN family be plastered all over these forums.

I say to you members of CN to stop encouraging this type of behavior. To think it’s funny that one’s family home has been violated is wrong. Get your heads on straight and stop with the mob mentality.

This coming from the alliance who once told Hyperion that they had 3 days to gather and provide CB-worthy evidence against MK for unknowingly having a reroll of Chickenzilla in our alliance, and told Hyperion to gather the CB by any means necessary or they themselves would be hit by a mysterious CB (which later, of course, involved Chickenzilla and the magical non-existent reason for being on a ZI list).

I have no pity for you, Ironchef. Don't come to us and plead for us to leave you be, after what you have done to so many others. You will live with the consequences of your actions. You wished for MK's "home" to be invaded, and you yourself later wanted to ransack and otherwise violate it. Karma's a *****, no? Had you not conducted yourself in the manner in which you did during those times, perhaps the post you just made would not be necessary.

So quit the melodramatic posturing. No one here will buy it.

Edit: Darn it Doitz, now my remark about karma seems entirely unoriginal instead of the homage to Feanor's post earlier in the thread that it was meant to be

Edited March 19, 2009 by TheNeverender

[Mogar]

if you put half as much effort into actually running your alliance as you do chasing ghosts and jumping at shadows maybe it wouldn't be in its current position.

If they did that Doitzel, they'd be a much smaller alliance.

[pezstar]

Bob the fact that Vox has done this is not what I have an issue with. It’s that people think its ok to do this and feed on it like candy.

You're at war with them. Not only is it ok, it's a very good tactic. All's fair in war.

[twodivine]

The thing is Gork its my home. And its not for you to decide if what was posted there was worse. You dont get to see it and that is the part that you dont like.

I could really careless what it was in the post that was edited. It's the fact of the matter that you edited a post of your fellow member and denied any discussion to take place on that post. If it was in a open forum area and shouldn't of been then you could of moved it to a more secure forum area that, that member and those that need to take part in that conversation could hold it.

That act you preformed was censorship and oppression of your memberships right to free speech and voice the concerns of fellow members.

[Doitzel]

If they did that Doitzel, they'd be a much smaller alliance.

Err, I meant that figuratively not in the literal (OOC: in-game) sense.

Good point though.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Doitzel

[Nintenderek]

You mean like you did when you coerced Yala Misr into gathering intel on us??

Give me a break. You're so full of crap. If you put half as much effort into actually running your alliance as you do chasing ghosts and jumping at shadows maybe it wouldn't be in its current position. You try pawning everything off on us but that's just an attempt to shift yourselves into the victim seat. A poor one, at that. This has nothing to do with spying and everything to do with karma.

And Pikajew, don't forget Pikajew

[King Srqt]

Bob the fact that Vox has done this is not what I have an issue with. It’s that people think its ok to do this and feed on it like candy.

And how many wars have you and your alliance supported in which a CB was gained through the use of a leaked screenshot from a private forum? What is good for the goose is good for the gander and all that.

[Delta1212]

Too much to reply to here. That said, I am shocked that an alliance would voluntarily surrender it's sovereignty so fully. GGA is not a conquered alliance... Honestly, it's a bit hard to believe.

You know what I'm reminded of? The time Legion surrendered and put themselves under an NPO Viceroy because of the looming threat of war from their old enemies.

Except for GGA, it's from their old friends and doesn't seem to be resulting from the threat of any specific war.

[KungFuHamster]

So where are they supposed to talk about it? Whatever excuse you gave, and I still have no idea what those people said, you still stifled free discussion. You shouldn't let the enemy dictate your actions, especially when they have as little an effect as a poorly placed spy.

With respect, it is not you who needs to know what those people said, as you are not a member of the Grand Global Alliance.

[Kestral]

My only problem with this thread is how everyone seems to think we at GR are joking just because we say it hourly. Not like anything else here is a great revelation.

But yeah seriously, just as soon as we get 5 members online sober enough to find the DoW button at any given time you all better watch your back!...

Now where did I leave that damned 'add reply' doodah...

[Ejayrazz]

#Cupcakery explosion in thread right thar.

[Blacky]

It was not removed because I didnt like what was said it was removed because of opsec.

Yeah, sure sounds like that was the reason based on the edited messages.

I will not have this $#*% going on here!

[Vilien]

With respect, it is not you who needs to know what those people said, as you are not a member of the Grand Global Alliance.

That wasn't the point. The point is that I believe that they had absolutely nothing to do with OPSEC, and you're just trying to make it look like you weren't censoring your members. Frankly, it's way too late for that.

[Mogar]

With respect, it is not you who needs to know what those people said, as you are not a member of the Grand Global Alliance.

I think his point is, neither does your alliance membership.

[RandomInterrupt]

I have no pity for you, Ironchef. Don't come to us and plead for us to leave you be, after what you have done to so many others. You will live with the consequences of your actions. You wished for MK's "home" to be invaded, and you yourself later wanted to ransack and otherwise violate it. Karma's a *****, no? Had you not conducted yourself in the manner in which you did during those times, perhaps the post you just made would not be necessary.

So quit the melodramatic posturing. No one here will buy it.

Edit: Darn it Doitz, now my remark about karma seems entirely unoriginal instead of the homage to Feanor's post earlier in the thread that it was meant to be

And you are back to posting exactly what I want to say but more elegant. Don't go changin'.

Also I think it's hilarious that anyone from the GGA is even thinking about getting upset about spying. Simple fact is, you have gone to war several times due to information gained from spying, and the GGA was a large participator in the group that went to war against the NpO, which was rife with information taken by a spy in the NpO. Everything being done to you, you have done to others. Save your tears for those who care, and judging by this thread there aren't many who care. Not even the allies you let run your alliance.

Note: This is a personal post from a retired leader of an alliance the GGA backtabbed. The NSO has no opinion here and this impacts us not at all.

[Mogar]

Note: This is a personal post from a retired leader of an alliance the GGA backtabbed. The NSO has no opinion here and this impacts us not at all.

All of my posts are personal opinion unless i sign it all official like.

[Moridin]

It was not removed because I didnt like what was said it was removed because of opsec. We cant tlak about some things in our members area because we have a spy and it would be posted here. Members are free to say what they like. you are just not free to see it.

An alliance forum is like a home. Your family is there. They laugh together, they cry together, and they fight with each other.

When did it become an excepted thing on PB to go into someone's home and take pictures of their family and post them on the OWF?It's an invasion of ones privacy of the worst kind.

When did the members of PB start to feed on thing of this type like hungry dogs?

When did tabloid journalism become a good thing?

There are alliances out there I think of as the enemy and want nothing more that to see them gone. But never, would I wish for their home to be invaded and pictures of their CN family be plastered all over these forums.

I say to you members of CN to stop encouraging this type of behavior. To think it's funny that one's family home has been violated is wrong. Get your heads on straight and stop with the mob mentality.

I have resisted posting at all in this thread out of respect for the way in which GGA let me off PZI with no strings attached. However, you of all people playing the victim when it comes to gathering intel on another alliance's forums is disingenuous and uncovincing at best. You are not going to find much sympathy from the community, and unless I am very much mistaken appeals to your current brand of morality are not going to shame the spy into leaving either, so I think it is best to try a different approach when it comes to dealing with a spy in your ranks. Given that information on your forum can be leaked, it's up to you to decide what the world sees. Is removing what is hopefully only a minor breach of OPSEC worth the risk of losing even more face in this discussion by removing posts by GGA members? Right now if I was the GGA I would be letting the membership discuss freely - I don't think anyone here is going to be surprised if leaked screenshots show that GGA members are having disagreements over the current situation, but when screenshot after screenshot shows GGA members being censored even in private it makes us all shake our heads even more.

Edited March 19, 2009 by Moridin

[KungFuHamster]

That wasn't the point. The point is that I believe that they had absolutely nothing to do with OPSEC, and you're just trying to make it look like you weren't censoring your members. Frankly, it's way too late for that.

Well, you are of course entitled to your opinions, though we have stated the reason for the edit. Either way my point stands that only a fraction of the viewers of the original post were meant to see it. And while it may be too late to say that it is has to do with OPSEC, that can not change the reasons for that action.

I think his point is, neither does your alliance membership.

Our membership doesn't need to know what was said? Or doesn't know what was said? Because the first is what was being addressed.

[Kindom of Goon]

Yeah, sure sounds like that was the reason based on the edited messages.

I will not have this $#*% going on here!

My thoughts exactly, it does not fit.