I hate GGA drama

[Sileath]

Moo and I were already talking in the skype chat, I didn't release those because it was redundant as I had just told him that ic had been removed.

I don't dispute the fact that it was after ironchef told you about the alleged terms violation that you told Moo.

I dispute the idea that ironchef told you before Moo told her. The evidence and timeframe points towards Moo telling ironchef prior to her telling you and you telling him.

[Sande]

Someone is lying here and if this does not stop, everyone's reputation will go down.

Whatever GGA is trying to do, will be wrong one way or another. Just pick one path and follow it, you are in a lose-lose situation, pick the smaller loss. Keep with NPO and be their puppets or whatever you want to be to them. Or any other alliance.

And stop couping triums. It makes you look even worse if you can't hold a government in position.

What else...

Moo... I don't want to go there anymore. Lies? Truth? Manipulation? Either way bad for everyone.

And I think mhawk got his information all out of context.

Maybe GGA should go democratic, let the general membership pick ONE leader who will get them out of all this drama and then go back to normal.

What is this, I don't even... <--- sums it up.

[Blacky]

Sorry but I love this. lol.

How did these guys retain power for so long? lmao

[CptGodzilla]

I don't dispute the fact that it was after ironchef told you about the alleged terms violation that you told Moo.

I dispute the idea that ironchef told you before Moo told her. The evidence and timeframe points towards Moo telling ironchef prior to her telling you and you telling him.

now that, good sir, is statistically impossible.

So while IronChef is chatting to Moo (as you look, the logs with Moo go from 00:04 to 00:05) she is also chatting to mhawk via query, who then tells Moo.

Again both are statistically implausible unless mhawk is telling moo while IronChef is telling him

[Sileath]

[02:26:03] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:35] <@Moo-Cows> you guys are $%&@ed

[02:26:05] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:43] <@Moo-Cows> you can't leave

[02:26:07] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:46] <&ironchef> I'm not

[02:26:09] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:48] <@Moo-Cows> and you need t o get them back

[02:26:11] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:52] <@Moo-Cows> ASAP

[02:26:13] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:54] <&ironchef> I left

[02:26:15] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:59] <&ironchef> degen deleted

Another piece of the puzzle:

From the end of the Skype conversation with mhawk which led to Moo's speaking in the GGA government until the last (7th) line of the 00:04 screenshot log was 24 seconds.

34 seconds + 24 seconds = 58 seconds. That left 2 seconds for Ironchef to query mhawk, tell him 3 lines, for him to tell Moo, and for Moo to open up the GGA chat.

This all assumes also that the 00:04 screenshot log started at 00:04:00.

What really happened: Moo tells GGA about danger, Ironchef queries mhawk, mhawk tells Moo, Moo reiterates the danger to GGA.

[Sande]

Are all those times logged from one computer? If not, this logic might be really wrong. Write out all the times with the remarks, whose PC it was written from. Otherwise you are just making a fool out of yourselves.

My PC time is 12:48. I saw this post come up at 12: 46. There are errors in your logic, I'm sure.

[Sileath]

Are all those times logged from one computer? If not, this logic might be really wrong. Write out all the times with the remarks, whose PC it was written from. Otherwise you are just making a fool out of yourselves.

My PC time is 12:48. I saw this post come up at 12: 46. There are errors in your logic, I'm sure.

We're not working off of relative time, but elapsed time.

From the beginning of Ironchef's first line of her query to mhawk until the 7th line of the GGA forum channel no more than one minute may have elapsed.

The two sides of the story, I have put the important facts in bold. I'm not saying mhawk's story is separate, because his account is not in dispute, and is explained in both sides.

Moo's story: Ironchef queries mhawk, then mhawk speaks with Moo on Skype chat for 34 seconds, then Moo/GGA talk in the GGA government channel for 24 seconds, all of which takes place in one minute or less.

Ironchef's story: Moo talks to GGA in their channel, Ironchef queries mhawk, then mhawk speaks with Moo on Skype chat for 34 seconds then Moo/GGA continue their conversation in the government channel for the next several minutes.

[magicninja]

We're not working off of relative time, but elapsed time.

From the beginning of Ironchef's first line of her query to mhawk until the 7th line of the GGA forum channel no more than one minute may have elapsed.

The two sides of the story, I have put the important facts in bold. I'm not saying mhawk's story is separate, because his account is not in dispute, and is explained in both sides.

Moo's story: Ironchef queries mhawk, then mhawk speaks with Moo on Skype chat for 34 seconds, then Moo/GGA talk in the GGA government channel for 24 seconds, all of which takes place in one minute or less.

Ironchef's story: Moo talks to GGA in their channel, Ironchef queries mhawk, then mhawk speaks with Moo on Skype chat for 34 seconds then Moo/GGA continue their conversation in the government channel for the next several minutes.

Hmm I think I'll be needing the specs of the way each program handles time, the ping rate of each party involved, as well as the exact time comparisons between all the PC's that were ivolved. You narrow all that down and I might give your theory a second look.

[Sande]

mIRC and Skype give the PC time. So, if every log you are using to prove your logic are from the same PC, your logic holds.

[Bob Janova]

Oh dear ... GGA really is that bad. Now my head hurts.

Log dumps from a government official are not particularly cool, though. You may no longer be thrown out of the Hegemony and ZId for it, but it is low class, even against GGA.

[Sileath]

mIRC and Skype give the PC time. So, if every log you are using to prove your logic are from the same PC, your logic holds.

Holy $%&@ how hard is this to understand?

I'm not saying that mhawk's time = Ironchef's time = shaneprice's time. I AM NOT SAYING THAT

What I am saying that regardless of the time zone, regardless of the ping, time always elapses at the same rate

Source

[12:03:53 AM] Mhawk says: athens is pulling terms

[12:04:00 AM] Mhawk says: gga violated terms

[12:04:27 AM] Mhawk says: there was to be no gov change

12:03:53 AM -> 12:04:27 AM = 34 seconds

Source

Ironchef's screenshot 1

Ironchef's screenshot 2

Those screenshots prove that the entire 3 lines of query with mhawk and the first 7 lines of the GGA government chat all happened within the same minute.

Source

[02:26:03] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:35] <@Moo-Cows> you guys are $%&@ed

[02:26:05] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:43] <@Moo-Cows> you can't leave

[02:26:07] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:46] <&ironchef> I'm not

[02:26:09] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:48] <@Moo-Cows> and you need t o get them back

[02:26:11] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:52] <@Moo-Cows> ASAP

[02:26:13] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:54] <&ironchef> I left

[02:26:15] <shaneprice[GGA]> [2:04:59] <&ironchef> degen deleted

2:04:35 -> 2:04:59 -> 24 seconds

For Moo's version of the story to be correct:

Within one minute Ironchef queries mhawk, mhawk spends 34 seconds talking to Moo on Skype, then Moo/GGA spend 24 seconds talking. If it's possible for Ironchef to get 3 lines out to mhawk, mhawk to pull up Skype, Moo to read mhawk's statements and open GGA's channel all in 2 seconds then Moo is telling the truth.

If doing all that is not possible to do in 2 seconds, then Moo told Ironchef that the danger was imminent prior to Ironchef telling mhawk.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Sileath

[Teriethien]

Because I couldn't understand Sileath either, I'm going to put what I think happened, and what I think he is trying to say, in another format here.

mhawk timeline

??:??:?? ironchef starts telling mhawk

00:00:00 mhawk starts telling moo

00:00:34 mhawk finishes telling moo

ironchef timeline

00:00:00 ironchef tells mhawk

00:00:?? "<@Moo-Cows> you guys are $%&@ed"

00:01:00 "<&ironchef> dgen deleted"

shaneprice timeline

00:00:00 "<@Moo-Cows> you guys are $%&@ed"

00:00:24 "<&ironchef> dgen deleted"

combined timeline

00:00:00 ironchef tells mhawk

00:00:02 mhawk starts telling moo

00:00:36 mhawk finishes telling moo

00:00:36 "<@Moo-Cows> you guys are $%&@ed"

00:01:00 "<&ironchef> dgen deleted"

The problem of course is that in all likelihood,

[00:03] <ironchef> Athers is goign to pull terms
[00:03] <ironchef> as they just got broke
[00:03] <ironchef> No gov was to leave the GGA

did not happen within 2 seconds.

EDIT:

That took way longer than I thought it would and of course I was beaten to it by far to make me look like a fool... Now how do I delete

Edited May 26, 2009 by Teriethien

[KIADO]

Holy $%&@ how hard is this to understand?

I'm not saying that mhawk's time = Ironchef's time = shaneprice's time. I AM NOT SAYING THAT

What I am saying that regardless of the time zone, regardless of the ping, time always elapses at the same rate

Source

12:03:53 AM -> 12:04:27 AM = 34 seconds

Source

Ironchef's screenshot 1

Ironchef's screenshot 2

Those screenshots prove that the entire 3 lines of query with mhawk and the first 7 lines of the GGA government chat all happened within the same minute.

Source

2:04:35 -> 2:04:59 -> 24 seconds

For Moo's version of the story to be correct:

Within one minute Ironchef queries mhawk, mhawk spends 34 seconds talking to Moo on Skype, then Moo/GGA spend 24 seconds talking. If it's possible for Ironchef to get 3 lines out to mhawk, mhawk to pull up Skype, Moo to read mhawk's statements and open GGA's channel all in 2 seconds then Moo is telling the truth.

If doing all that is not possible to do in 2 seconds, then Moo told Ironchef that the danger was imminent prior to Ironchef telling mhawk.

Log times are generated from the PC time and the PC time may not be accurate at all, so all parties involved may have inaccurate PC time and their is no prove to either side at all.

[Tulafaras]

honestly, after reading the last 2 pages the only comment i have is: "does it matter?"

[Nintenderek]

I hope I'm not the only one who's even more confused after this topic. I'm just going to go to school now. If someone figures out what happened while I'm gone, post a tl;dr and I'll read that

[Teriethien]

Log times are generated from the PC time and the PC time may not be accurate at all, so all parties involved may have inaccurate PC time and their is no prove to either side at all.

Are you saying that 34 seconds on mhawk's computer is supposed to be different to 34 seconds on ironchef's computer? In a way that actually matters, i.e. more than a few microseconds off?

[magicninja]

Within one minute Ironchef queries mhawk, mhawk spends 34 seconds talking to Moo on Skype, then Moo/GGA spend 24 seconds talking. If it's possible for Ironchef to get 3 lines out to mhawk, mhawk to pull up Skype, Moo to read mhawk's statements and open GGA's channel all in 2 seconds then Moo is telling the truth.

If doing all that is not possible to do in 2 seconds, then Moo told Ironchef that the danger was imminent prior to Ironchef telling mhawk.

Everyone's clocks would need to be synchronized to the second for that to be accurate. Even a difference of a few seconds could add plenty of time for all of that to go on.

[Great Lakes Union]

Just look at the motives here to see who is lying:

GGA: Throw NPO under the bus, get good PR, show their new independence, and put a stop to the latest GGA coup.

NPO: Get GGA back in the war because they are awesome fighters and the war will totally change if they come back in.

[Heyman]

I hope I'm not the only one who's even more confused after this topic. I'm just going to go to school now. If someone figures out what happened while I'm gone, post a tl;dr and I'll read that

This. I'm tired trying to figure this out. I'll be back.

[Teriethien]

Everyone's clocks would need to be synchronized to the second for that to be accurate. Even a difference of a few seconds could add plenty of time for all of that to go on.

No, the clocks don't need to be synchronised. A second is a second is a second; they just need to be able to count in seconds properly.

[oinkoink12]

You are all forgetting the fact that moo is able to timetravel to wherever he wants.

[Tromp]

What is this, I don't even...

I don't care who was right here, it is way too amusing to read this. Please, continue.

[magicninja]

No, the clocks don't need to be synchronised. A second is a second is a second; they just need to be able to count in seconds properly.

Is it out of the realm of possibility that some of those seconds are overlapped?

[Sande]

The source that says "it all happened within one minute"...

It is a copy-paste made by shaneprice whose clock seems to be about 1-2 minutes ahead of the others. Gives another minute for NPO or GGA in my opinion. You are looking at the wrong time there, I'm afraid.

I'm not so much interested in finding wether NPO or GGA is at fault...

magicninja, 1-10 second differnce is not a very big deal. Even then it would be inhuman to talk things through in under a minute.

Edited May 26, 2009 by Sande

[SunTzuWannabe]

Just look at the motives here to see who is lying:

GGA: Throw NPO under the bus, get good PR, show their new independence, and put a stop to the latest GGA coup.

NPO: Get GGA back in the war because they are awesome fighters and the war will totally change if they come back in.

I think this needs to be comended for its sense. NPO dont want GGA back what benefit does that actually bring to NPO. Moo has made some bad decisions recently but he isnt inept like GGA. ( sorry for the GGA bashing but really how many times can you Coup your own government.)

Cheers

SunTzu