A Statement from Doomhouse

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300401987' post='2668349']
A lengthy attempt at negotiation was made, but GOONS refused to entertain any offer that did not include at least a ten page play (They were aiming for twenty). So, naturally, it's impossible to get at the numerical aspect of the terms if GOONS refuses to get past that.

Further, the suggestion that others could pay it is a suggestion of charging NPO reps via proxy. CoJ's only treaty tie is through us, 64Digits, and our 6 man AA certainly wouldn't be able to help with that number even were we willing to reward GOONS for their war.

I'm glad to be of assistance, Re: clearing up information on the CoJ terms.
[/quote]


So because you refused a 10-20 page play your stuck at 500 million. How could you possibly not accept that? Schattenman likes the sound of his own keyboard, I'm sure he could write that up in 2 hours. Are beer reviews, milk reviews, orange juice reviews against the rules? I don't think they are. Surely this falls in that category.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Hiro Nakara

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1300402091' post='2668353']
It is humorous in the fact that some how you're the "expert" on the CoJ terms when you're not in CoJ.
[/quote]
I'm not sure you noticed, but we are quite close allies, and I have read the entire log of "negotiations" between CoJ and her enemies. I'm not [i]the[/i] expert, but I am [i]an[/i] expert.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300401987' post='2668349']
A lengthy attempt at negotiation was made, but GOONS refused to entertain any offer that did not include at least a ten page play (They were aiming for twenty). So, naturally, it's impossible to get at the numerical aspect of the terms if GOONS refuses to get past that.

Further, the suggestion that others could pay it is a suggestion of charging NPO reps via proxy. CoJ's only treaty tie is through us, 64Digits, and our 6 man AA certainly wouldn't be able to help with that number even were we willing to reward GOONS for their war.

I'm glad to be of assistance, Re: clearing up information on the CoJ terms.
[/quote]
It is not we who are refusing to negotiate on the length of the play, CoJ refuses to even consider the play, regardless of length. I could logdump but I don't particularly like logdumping private negotiations. If he refuses to write the play, the price is 400m. Which is why he needs to swallow his pride and write the play if he wants to pay a reasonable amount (100m or less, depending on grade/or ungraded).

Edited March 17, 2011 by Sardonic

[Antonio Salovega VI]

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' timestamp='1300397516' post='2668188']
That is a bit of a reach don't you think?

I have a nation so I can post here. I have never been on at consecutive updates and have never understood the basic mechanics of the Cyberverse. Somewhat for lack of effort, but mostly from lack of time. When I have had a nation worth any level of substance it has been rogue attacked relentless in times of peace, still making it castrated during times of war.

Every member of the Order has value. Some have logistic and strategic gifts that I can not comprehend. Some are graphic artists that make images in minutes that I couldn't do in months. Some are great writers and some are good with the national financial structures. And some are good at dying. Those are the most valuable parts of the Order. They always have been. I count myself lucky to be able to stand in the same room as any soldier of Pacifica or any of the other Orders because to me leadership means service and service means sacrifice.

Now, I have a certain level of charisma and can on occasion wordsmith paltry statements of encouragement and support. My gift to the Orders has always been my loud obnoxious mouth. It has caused the Orders grief, but it has also bolstered their successes. In this realm and others I am a natural leader. I know how to fit people into specific roles that gain success because of their collective effort. I have never claimed victory for myself alone, even when others threw it at my feet.

Me waving my impotent fist here on this stage at this time is the only gift I have for Pacifica. It is the only gift I have ever had for them truly. And it is still effective on the home-front, even if some here would mock or disparage it. My nation might be disarmed, but my blood still runs with the cold resolve of Order.
[/quote]

Come now. Be honest. In actuality, waving your impotent fist here on this stage is the only gift that you choose to give. You could give others but you have deliberately chosen not to. You could be the natural target of nukes and inspire the member-nations of the orders by doing so. But you don't. You could choose to give aid to those in bill lock. But you don't. You could choose to ride to the aid of those who are fighting desperate odds. But you don't. You could choose to send aid when the hostilities end. But you can't and so you won't. Instead you leave your fellow members-nations to fend for themselves while you offer platitudes and half-witicisms. Your blood may still run with the cold resolve of Order but you have chosen not to spill a single drop of it. You may be able to wordsmith paltry statements of encouragement and support but you have deliberately chosen not to back up those statements with anything approaching real sacrifice. What I find most interesting is that you try to justify your cowardice as if it were a noble attribute.

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Chickenzilla' timestamp='1300400369' post='2668288']
Insert NPO to GATO peace mode terms.
[/quote]

Get the $%&@ over it sweetie, I mean GATO has.

[Dagrr]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300402206' post='2668354']
Read your original comment.

Penkala does not speak for DH
Penakala holds no membership in DH
It wont be perma war because you will accept terms, negotiated or not to your liking.
[/quote]

Allow me to clarify. I thought it might be a good idea for Doom House to stop beating around the permawar bush. Penakala doesn't beat around the bush. His status doesn't make a difference to me. As I posted, I find statements like his refreshing and I wish more of the anti-NPO crowd would follow his lead.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300401452' post='2668331']
See? It's a lot better if you get these things off your chest DoomHouse.
[/quote]

I mean, I'm not a member of DoomHouse, I'm a member of Pandora's Box. And, well, if you don't accept the peace terms... it's quite clear that you'll have permanent war.

[quote]Allow me to clarify. I thought it might be a good idea for Doom House to stop beating around the permawar bush. Penakala doesn't beat around the bush. His status doesn't make a difference to me. [/quote]

Yes, if you don't agree to peace (which is the only thing that ends a war) then the war will continue. If you never agree to peace, your war will never end. And since you're all here claiming you won't agree to peace, you can enjoy your perma war.

[quote]This is why I detest being compared to you. In one line, you successfully collapsed the entire charade your side was attempting to construct. It takes a special level of stupidity to achieve that. [/quote]

*Gasp* Penkala said that if there's not peace, there will be war. This means DH is just playing games and is just waiting to break their word once Pacifica leaves peace mode.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Penkala

[chefjoe]

[quote name='neneko' timestamp='1300400100' post='2668280']
Manipulating and misdirect facts would actually be lying. He didn't however and if he had we'd all have proof of it long long ago. I can see why you really want it to be true though. Can't be hard to swallow your pride and face up to your own responsibility on that one.
[/quote]

Ok HoT(and yes thats about where you are with the scope of your bs neneko), btw like I said there is proof, Archons own posts regarding the subject after the fact basicly saying he played bigwoody. Keep on towing that party line....

Edited March 17, 2011 by chefjoe

[Choson]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300402439' post='2668360']
I'm not sure you noticed, but we are quite close allies, and I have read the entire log of "negotiations" between CoJ and her enemies. I'm not [i]the[/i] expert, but I am [i]an[/i] expert.
[/quote]
I'd rather trust the people actually [i]in[/i] the negotiations than someone who wasn't party to them.

100 mil is a lot smaller than 500 mil, but keep fishing, HoT.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300402560' post='2668365']
Allow me to clarify. I thought it might be a good idea for Doom House to stop beating around the permawar bush. Penakala doesn't beat around the bush. His status doesn't make a difference to me. As I posted, I find statements like his refreshing and I wish more of the anti-NPO crowd would follow his lead.
[/quote]


So really what you should have said is "Cool Penkala I'm glad a completely unrelated member made his opinions clear". Thanks bro.

Now I get you.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1300402452' post='2668361']
It is not we who are refusing to negotiate on the length of the play, CoJ refuses to even consider the play, regardless of length. I could logdump but I don't particularly like logdumping private negotiations. If he refuses to write the play, the price is 400m. Which is why he needs to swallow his pride and write the play if he wants to pay a reasonable amount (100m or less, depending on grade/or ungraded).
[/quote]
Is there any good reason on this forsaken world that they [i]should[/i] consider reducing themselves to monkeys for the entertainment of GOONS? The terms are an insult, deliberately designed so that the Cult will not accept them. In other words, your aim is eternal war.

[Ardus]

[quote name='Henry' timestamp='1300402560' post='2668365']
Allow me to clarify. I thought it might be a good idea for Doom House to stop beating around the permawar bush. Penakala doesn't beat around the bush. His status doesn't make a difference to me. As I posted, I find statements like his refreshing and I wish more of the anti-NPO crowd would follow his lead.
[/quote]
We're not here to refresh you, champ, so don't hold your breath.

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300402439' post='2668360']
I'm not sure you noticed, but we are quite close allies, and I have read the entire log of "negotiations" between CoJ and her enemies. I'm not [i]the[/i] expert, but I am [i]an[/i] expert.
[/quote]


Because Shattenman doesn't want to swallow his pride, he will enjoy being hammered even more than face light terms at 100 million.

So again that is not really terms that are impossible to accept.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='kevin32891' timestamp='1300402468' post='2668363']
Get the $%&@ over it sweetie, I mean GATO has.
[/quote]

GATO wasn't the only alliance banned from peace mode under threat of PZI.

Although we were never big on peace mode anyway.

Anyways, I feel like we're replaying the debates from the end of the Karma War here. NPO didn't trust Karma enough back then to come out of peace mode and fight, why on earth would they be more trusting now, when (in their minds at least) they have been attacked without reason at all?

Edited March 17, 2011 by Lord Brendan

[Penkala]

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300402707' post='2668372']
So really what you should have said is "Cool Penkala I'm glad a completely unrelated member made his opinions clear". Thanks bro.

Now I get you.
[/quote]

That's even twisting it. It's not my opinion that NPO should have perma war. It's a factual statement that if some kind of peace agreement is not reached between NPO and DH -- and NPO is saying they don't want to reach such an agreement -- the war will go on indefinitely. Not so complicated, really.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1300402646' post='2668369']
I'd rather trust the people actually [i]in[/i] the negotiations than someone who wasn't party to them.

100 mil is a lot smaller than 500 mil, but keep fishing, HoT.
[/quote]
Sardonic has already confirmed the terms as 400 mil in this very thread. I don't see why you feel the need to make up blatant falsehoods about what Sardonic says when Sardonic is right next to you saying something else.

[quote name='Hiro Nakara' timestamp='1300402836' post='2668377']
Because Shattenman doesn't want to swallow his pride, he will enjoy being hammered even more than face light terms at 100 million.

So again that is not really terms that are impossible to accept.
[/quote]
That goes for you too.

Edited March 17, 2011 by HeroofTime55

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1300402983' post='2668381']
That's even twisting it. It's not my opinion that NPO should have perma war. It's a factual statement that if some kind of peace agreement is not reached between NPO and DH -- and NPO is saying they don't want to reach such an agreement -- the war will go on indefinitely. Not so complicated, really.
[/quote]


I wasn't disagreeing with what you stated, I'm also of the opinion that if they don't want to take the terms they themselves would prefer perma war.

[neneko]

[quote name='chefjoe' timestamp='1300402615' post='2668367']
Ok HoT(and yes thats about where you are with the scope of your bs neneko), btw like I said there is proof, Archons own posts regarding the subject after the fact basicly saying he played bigwoody. Keep on towing that party line....
[/quote]
Yeah.. you tried to redefine the meaning of lying in your last post. I don't think you're doing that well here. Is our party line that archon doesn't lie? Cause I mostly brought it up in response to a bunch of unsubstantiated claims from the opposite side. Boy am I the lucky one.

oh oh and I almost forgot, no ur HoT

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1300402983' post='2668381']
That's even twisting it. It's not my opinion that NPO should have perma war. It's a factual statement that if some kind of peace agreement is not reached between NPO and DH -- and NPO is saying they don't want to reach such an agreement -- the war will go on indefinitely. Not so complicated, really.
[/quote]
Pray tell where NPO says they aren't interested in reaching a peace settlement?

They've only expressed that they aren't interested in this particular offer, and rightfully so.

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

Fair call, I think. I didn't see anything particularly wrong with the NPO's [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=21476"]statement[/url] to GATO a few years back and I certainly don't think that the OP is particularly harsh - it even seems to be a tad too nice, to be honest.

Edit: [quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300402828' post='2668375']
Is there any good reason on this forsaken world that they [i]should[/i] consider reducing themselves to monkeys for the entertainment of GOONS? The terms are an insult, deliberately designed so that the Cult will not accept them. In other words, your aim is eternal war.
[/quote]
Perhaps a shorter play would be acceptable then? What length would be OK? One page? Two? I'm looking forward to reading it, as I do all of Shantanamanan's treatises

Edited March 17, 2011 by Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz

[Hiro Nakara]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300403001' post='2668382']
Sardonic has already confirmed the terms as 400 mil in this very thread. I don't see why you feel the need to make up blatant falsehoods about what Sardonic says when Sardonic is right next to you saying something else.


That goes for you too.
[/quote]


Okay so what am I making up here genius? Sardonic has stated that you will pay 400 million if you do not want the 10-20 page play option added in the terms, he then stated he will give you 100 mill reps if you take the play option. what am I embellishing here? Nothing.

And that goes for you too sonny Jim.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1300403001' post='2668382']
Sardonic has already confirmed the terms as 400 mil in this very thread. I don't see why you feel the need to make up blatant falsehoods about what Sardonic says when Sardonic is right next to you saying something else.


That goes for you too.
[/quote]

You are mistaken, or twisting his words on purpose. The terms offered were a flat 100M plus a play, or 400M reduced by the grade the play receives.

So if Schattenmann believes his play will get better than 75%, the latter option is better. 400M would only have to be paid if he refused to write a play at all, which would be somewhat foolish - a half-assed effort split up among his members could manage to meet the length requirement, even if it was a terrible play.

Edited March 17, 2011 by Lord Brendan

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1300402870' post='2668378']
NPO didn't trust Karma enough back then to come out of peace mode and fight, why on earth would they be more trusting now, when (in their minds at least) they have been attacked without reason at all?
[/quote]

I am not exactly sure how NPO's continuous lack of capacity to trust other alliances - which, considering what they did to other alliances, I can understand - is our fault.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Lord Brendan' timestamp='1300402870' post='2668378']
NPO didn't trust Karma enough back then to come out of peace mode and fight, why on earth would they be more trusting now, when (in their minds at least) they have been attacked without reason at all?
[/quote]
Somebody gets it!

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1300403423' post='2668394']
I am not exactly sure how NPO's continuous lack of capacity to trust other alliances - which, considering what they did to other alliances, I can understand - is our fault.
[/quote]
While walking the opposite direction down the sidewalk, Umbrella punches Pacifica in the face for no reason.

Umbrella then offers that if Pacifica lets them freely kick them around a bit, Umbrella promises to just walk away after 30 minutes.

I don't know, I think Pacifica has really good reasons to not be trusting here.