A Statement from Doomhouse

[xzenith]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1302234998' post='2686522']
I'm pretty sure a CB should first be at least a sentence. Maybe even a complete phrase? Not, Everything:Stop:Must:Stop:Die:Stop:
[/quote]
While that may have been the [i]title[/i] of the DoW thread, you should probably have gone ahead and read the rest of the post as well. Which I assume you did, considering you posted in the thread itself. Here is it again, regardless:

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1295928088' post='2597854']
The New Polar Order and her myriad allies have gone to great lengths to protect a single alliance from damage in this latest global calamity. Rather than putting forth a maximal effort in what was perceived to be a losing effort from the onset, these alliances have conspired to take the beating so that their flagship alliance can remain strong and resolute. Of particular note is the valorious Legion, whose mutual defense pact with the New Polar Order remains untapped. Perhaps it is a hope for a return to past 'glory.' Subservience suited them well throughout much of their existence, so this is not a particularly surprising strategy. I was asked in particular to pay great heed to the efforts of the Siberian Tiger Alliance in this regard, masterfully positioning alliances in a way to protect the core.

The alliance they shield, the alliance they cling to, and the alliance to which they entrust their safety and prosperity - The New Pacific Order.

We cannot allow any chance of a return to power by the New Pacific Order. For years they ruled with an iron fist. They engineered a multitude of first strike "curbstomps," the most grossly abusive among them being the glibly named Woodstock Masscre against the Green Protection Agency. Never one to face an enemy with an even remote chance of victory, and always one to beat on the weak and the vulnerable, the New Pacific Order was a true master of the first strike attack. They could not only beat down the weak, but they had maneuvered the politics of the day such that they could do so with impunity.

Recently, the Order of the Paradox tried a first strike as a gambit against the Complaints and Grievances Union. The attack, a clinic in military skill and precision, was doomed only due to politics. While they showed infinitely more bravery than the New Pacific Order, in attacking a foe with military skill and a reasonable relative strength, they also taught a great lesson.

A first strike is not deplorable when against a foe of strength, but one must make sure their political situation is unassailable before doing so.

Or, perhaps it is even more simple than that.

Maybe it's just a matter of loathing. Maybe it is because we believe that Everything. Must. Die. Maybe it is because we think you deserve to burn.

It doesn't actually matter. Whatever reason we decided to state, our foes would take their own, believe it, and attempt to spin it to their benefit. I welcome them to try. I wish them good luck, even, for they will surely need it. As for us? We always hear people saying "Do something about it!" with great bravado, so how about this?

[b]The Combined Forces of Doomhouse hereby declare war upon the New Pacific Order.[/b]

Deal with it.[/quote]
Looks like more than just a sentence to me [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rVKeT.gif[/IMG]

ooc: grats 200 pages now gas thread tia

[ControlVolume]

[quote name='HHAYD' timestamp='1302230297' post='2686481']
[b]Bold[/b]: What is the greater evil? The NPO? Or Doomhouse committing atrocities that rival NPO's past? I wouldn't have taken a side if you didn't decide to pull the BS logical fallacy "Two wrongs make right".

[i]Italic[/i]: I do recall TPF paying some reps back during Karma War, and that's quite minor compared to NPO's terms:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=63887

The argument; "OMFG! NPO AND ITS ALLIES FEASTED UPON OUTRAGEOUS REPS!" is void ever sine Karma. I seriously hope you don't believe in multiple punishments for the same crime.

[u]Underline[/u]: Put yourself in our shoes and walk for a mile in them. If, suppose, DH's upper tier was outnumbered by more than 1 to 3 and had significantly lower average infra/tech, would they be suicidal enough to throw them against their opponents' overall superior upper tier? I think not.

There's a difference between cowardice/incompetent and stupidly/recklessly charging into a hopeless battle only to cause more damage on yourself than your enemy.
[/quote]
How quickly you change the subject and start arguing against assertions that were never made. I merely pointed out the fallacy of calling receiving reps from alliances that entered via treaty dishonorable. You keep on dragging out the Karma war, though, like losing it somehow makes you immune to all political ramifications henceforth. Your alliance is not a martyr, forever pinned beneath the jackboot of other alliances. Your alliance is one of cowards that, when faced with sizable opposition, huddles in the comforting blanket of peace mode while crying about how mean the world is to you.

For example, let's deconstruct that last sentence of yours. You claim that fighting would be charging recklessly into a massacre, where all your nations would be at the mercy of overwhelming numerical superiority. But, did you not have allies? Did you not have those who entered the war to defend you? NPO and its allies enjoyed numerical superiority in the opening stages of the war, but they squandered it by hiding in peace mode and letting their allies burn. Now, after your meatshields have fallen around you, you cry about how oppressed you are, how you are surrounded by bullies picking on a poor, defenseless alliance that was only linked by a treaty, boo hoo and woe! You, your alliance, and your treaty partners have placed yourselves in this disadvantageous position by your own paralyzing fear and inaction. And all the moral arguments in the world won't stop your alliance from burning. For your particular alliance, the only release from this crucible will be reparations. For the NPO, the only release will be battle.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1302232626' post='2686500']
Nah, attacking NPO was the best move as waiting for it to drag out wasn't in our interests. Basically, NPO knew it was getting attacked the worst case scenario for NPO talking to someone before is not getting attacked and consequently there was no real incentive to do it in the scenario I posit because NPO wanted to be on the defensive and talk about how they were attacked for no reason. Get it now? The comparison that works here is C&G knowing about the TOP pre-empt and militarizing for it because they wanted it to happen.
[/quote]
"NPO knew were were coming for them, so the only reasonable course of action was to come for them!"

Does absolutely nothing to justify it. If I know the guy on the street is going to mug me, it doesn't justify him when he does.
[img]http://www.64digits.com/users/HeroofTime55/darkrai_thumb_4_flipped.png[/img]

[D34th]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1302238273' post='2686545']
I can't believe people are still being retards and saying that there wasn't a CB. Every single war that has occurred on on this planet has had a CB. Just because you don't agree with the reasons given by the alliance that initiates the conflict doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I swear to God that some of you people are just so damn stupid.
[/quote]

What I think that people are trying to say is that NPO didn't gave any reasonable reason or pulled any aggressive move towards DH to justify an attack against Pacifica, attack who essentially born out of irational fear, paranoia and lust for (more) power.

Edit:

Also if you interpret the expression "[i]Casus belli[/i]" literally you will find that there is no CB against NPO in this war:

[quote][i]Casus belli[/i] is a Latin expression meaning the justification for acts of war. Casus means "incident", "rupture" or indeed "case", while belli means bellic ("of war"). [b]Being used to refer to offenses or threats directly against a nation.[/b][/quote]

Can you enlighten me about which [u][b]concrete[/b][/u] offense or threat has posed NPO against DH?

Edit2: William Bonney beat me. :/

Edited April 8, 2011 by D34th

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1302238923' post='2686550']
I'm sorry but "we just don't like you" is not a cb, else all of bob would be out there smashing up a lot of nations. And the countless posts of self contradictions, flip flops and lies don't add up to anything more than nonsense. And I seem to recall a war being fought on pb that your alliance made countless and countless of posts objecting to. So now you've failed to make history [i]and[/i] contradicted yourself.
[/quote]
Of course "we don't like you" is a CB. Its their reason for war. Its their justification.

What war was fought in which my alliance made countless post objecting to? Are you referring to Karma? If so, our objection was that it was a retarded reason in which to go war not that it didn't mean that a reason didn't exist. The fact that we viewed it as "retarded" was our opinion of the CB, however, that didn't take away the fact that a CB was still there. Now, if people in my alliance (gov/otherwise) referred to the NPO as lacking a CB then they were idiots just like the people who claim DH don't have a CB are idiots.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='xzenith' timestamp='1302239049' post='2686551']
While that may have been the [i]title[/i] of the DoW thread, you should probably have gone ahead and read the rest of the post as well. Which I assume you did, considering you posted in the thread itself. Here is it again, regardless:


Looks like more than just a sentence to me [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/rVKeT.gif[/IMG]

ooc: grats 200 pages now gas thread tia
[/quote]

Sigh...

[quote]Casus Belli: is a Latin expression meaning the justification for acts of war. Casus means "incident", "rupture" or indeed "case", while belli means bellic ("of war").[/quote]

I guess not too many libraries over in goonland? We have plenty in our embassies, you should come by sometime.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1302240146' post='2686556']
Of course "we don't like you" is a CB. Its their reason for war. Its their justification.

What war was fought in which my alliance made countless post objecting to? Are you referring to Karma? If so, our objection was that it was a retarded reason in which to go war not that it didn't mean that a reason didn't exist. The fact that we viewed it as "retarded" was our opinion of the CB, however, that didn't take away the fact that a CB was still there. Now, if people in my alliance (gov/otherwise) referred to the NPO as lacking a CB then they were idiots just like the people who claim DH don't have a CB are idiots.
[/quote]
Sorry I thought you were in mk for some reason.

[mythicknight]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1302239799' post='2686555']
Can you enlighten me about which [u][b]concrete[/b][/u] offense or threat has posed NPO against DH?
[/quote]

Existing

[xoindotnler]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1302240146' post='2686556']
Of course "we don't like you" is a CB. Its their reason for war. Its their justification.
[/quote]
Since we love dragging in Casus belli, what did DH do to prevent this war?

[Iceknave]

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1302240517' post='2686562']
Existing
[/quote]
Sorry, that doesn't work.

If mere existence is considered a [b]concrete offense or threat[/b], then DH would be fighting a LOT more alliances, simply due to how many alliances exist.....

[Williambonney]

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1302240517' post='2686562']
Existing
[/quote]
Believe me, I feel really terrible about it. I'd like to rectify this terrible atrocity but the enemy is unwilling to reason with me. They just seem too precious.

Edited April 8, 2011 by William Bonney

[xzenith]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1302240194' post='2686557']
I guess not too many libraries over in goonland? We have plenty in our embassies, you should come by sometime.
[/quote]
I'm sure that there's some interesting reading in there but I'll pass thanks.

You're correct in that the term "casus belli" is interpreted as meaning justification for war. The post I quoted consists of the justifications laid out by Doomhouse for declaring war on NPO. Whether those justifications are "valid" is surely a subjective matter. Evidently both sides disagree on this point and will not be swayed. It is probably not worth arguing over it any more.

Edited April 8, 2011 by xzenith

[Williambonney]

[quote name='xzenith' timestamp='1302241684' post='2686582']
I'm sure that there's some interesting reading in there but I'll pass thanks.

You're correct in that the term "casus belli" is interpreted as meaning justification for war. The post I quoted consists of the justifications laid out by Doomhouse for declaring war on NPO. Whether those justifications are "valid" is surely a subjective matter. Evidently both sides disagree on this point and will not be swayed. It is probably not worth arguing over it any more.
[/quote]
Indeed both sides do not agree, hence I think the community should have a say should they not? While you may not think its worth arguing over, I believe there are some people out there that might.

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1302239799' post='2686555']
[quote]Casus belli is a Latin expression meaning the justification for acts of war. Casus means "incident", "rupture" or indeed "case", while belli means bellic ("of war"). [b]Being used to refer to offenses or threats directly against a nation.[/b][/quote]

Can you enlighten me about which [u][b]concrete[/b][/u] offense or threat has posed NPO against DH?

Edit2: William Bonney beat me. :/
[/quote]
The definition you pulled from Wikipedia doesn't say anything about needing a [u][b]concrete[/b] reason. That's a completely subjective term that could mean one thing to someone and another to someone else. I could raise the point that NPO could have poised a threat to them in the future and I would consider that valid while I believe you would not. I'm not debating anyone based on their opinions. I don't care if they believe the CB was valid or not.

I get my definition from [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casus%20belli"]Merriam-Webster[/url] who state "an event or action that justifies or allegedly justifies a war or conflict."

Edited April 8, 2011 by Feanor Noldorin

[Feanor Noldorin]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1302241950' post='2686585']
Indeed both sides do not agree, hence I think the community should have a say should they not? While you may not think its worth arguing over, I believe there are some people out there that might.
[/quote]
GGA didn't have a CB against VE. FAN didn't have a CB against NoR. NPO didn't have a CB against GPA. Whoever fought Atlantis didn't have a CB against them. NPO didn't have a CB against OV. TOP didn't have a CB against CnG. VE didn't have one against NpO.

Any major war that has occurred on this planet has had people dispute whither or not a CB was right or wrong. I think thats fair, however, that doesn't mean that the people that initiated those wars didn't have justification.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1302242334' post='2686587']
The definition you pulled from Wikipedia doesn't say anything about needing a [u][b]concrete[/b] reason. That's a completely subjective term that could mean one thing to someone and another to someone else. I could raise the point that NPO could have poised a threat to them in the future and I would consider that valid while I believe you would not. I'm not debating anyone based on their opinions. I don't care if they believe the CB was valid or not.

I get my definition from [url="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/casus%20belli"]Merriam-Webster[/url] who state "an event or action that justifies or allegedly justifies a war or conflict."
[/quote]
And I could consider admin a possible threat to my nation as well. I don't at this time, since I've given him no reason to.

[Monster]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1302239328' post='2686554']
"NPO knew were were coming for them, so the only reasonable course of action was to come for them!"

Does absolutely nothing to justify it. If I know the guy on the street is going to mug me, it doesn't justify him when he does.
[img]http://www.64digits.com/users/HeroofTime55/darkrai_thumb_4_flipped.png[/img]
[/quote]

No, I'm mostly countering the assertion it was a "surprise." It still made strategic sense to attack NPO even if they knew about it as the standoff taking place was preventing the war from reaching its critical mass.

[Judge X]

Let's see what I saw...
[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1295928088' post='2597854']
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Everything:STOP:
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Must:STOP:
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Oh hey a pony....(wanders off for 20 minutes)
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
Die:STOP:
Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah
I hope they buy this....
[/quote]

Just Saying. If your gonna try to it off as more than fecal matter, STOP.

[Judge X]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1302243517' post='2686598']
No, I'm mostly countering the assertion it was a "surprise." It still made strategic sense to attack NPO even if they knew about it as the standoff taking place was preventing the war from reaching its critical mass.
[/quote]
I have to say that out of all here you haven't gone into a 'No U' rant. At least that I've seen.

[mrwuss]

[quote name='Judge X' timestamp='1302243953' post='2686603']
Let's see what I saw...


Just Saying. If your gonna try to it off as more than fecal matter, STOP.
[/quote]


Let's see what I saw...


ABLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO AAHHHHH BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO
I need a tissue for my tears.

[Williambonney]

[quote name='mrwuss' timestamp='1302245931' post='2686622']
Let's see what I saw...


ABLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO AAHHHHH BLOO BLOO BLOO BLOO
I need a tissue for my tears.
[/quote]
I think I do too, your coming along so well now. You make me so proud. Will you need me to walk you to the school bus?

[Earogema]

[quote name='mythicknight' timestamp='1302238037' post='2686542']
200 pages and the only redeemable thing about this thread is the dog picture that's always at the bottom.
[/quote]
I hate you so much simply because I agreed.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Feuersturm' timestamp='1302227355' post='2686452']
You infer there was any dialog whatsoever. We all know this to be false.
[/quote]

Somehow you missed the ironic tone of my post.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1302233376' post='2686505']
Yes, we knew you guys were coming. That would explain the massive damages we took in the first week of war. The rebels must have stolen the plans for our secret weapon, and sold it to goons. I shall ask Mary to dispatch the dark lord to retrieve them immediately.

Seriously now, Umbrella should not be playing with slinkys. Those sharp corners can take out an eye.
[/quote]

No, the damage you took was only because you failed to move enough people to peace mode in a timely manner. You did try though.

[mrwuss]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1302246195' post='2686624']
I think I do too, your coming along so well now. You make me so proud. Will you need me to walk you to the school bus?
[/quote]

School is for fools.