A Protectorate Agreement

[Vasuda]

[quote name='Lucius Aerilius' timestamp='1299617094' post='2656955']
The situation may have precedence, but its a bit unusual. TFE is a brand new AA, large enough to bring some life back to this place and actually end up being an impactful player in global affairs. Our dealing with them is honestly as much to see them grow and prosper as it is to get some yummy tech. It might be odd to others out there, but we here in the ODN genuinely want to see our friends in TFE succeed. Not have some faux cyber bully try and threaten and intimidate them in the early stages of their time here.
[/quote]
There is nothing at all unusual about this. I agree that TFE seems promising, and I hope that they continue to grow and succeed. All the best to them. However, just because they have brought in a large number of new nations does not mean that they are exempt from the established norms of Digiterra.

Likewise, I do not know why you would claim it unusual for a protector to have their protectorate's best interest in mind. This is how it should always be done. I pity any alliance who's protectors seek only to use them as a political tool.

[quote name='Lucius Aerilius' timestamp='1299617094' post='2656955']
Any statements from myself or any other ODN'er as to the severity of reps is probably inaccurate. I can have some fun with Schatt, but in the end the Senate and SecGen are the only one with the authority to negotiate reps and stuff. I'll do my best to push for them to be severe, as there was a great deal of warning and nasty, dirty tactics used by CoJ and whatstheirname64somethingorother, but in the end that is not my decision.
[/quote]
I fail to see how giving an advance warning to TFE nations qualifies as "nasty, dirty tactics." Indeed, I feel like this is a level of decency and respect for opponents that we rarely see here anymore. I would daresay that Schatt had reason to believe you had been less than honest with TFE about the nature of the deals. When I was in a protectorate, my protectors did in fact stop all economic dealings during wartime, until we decided to enter the war ourselves. Ultimately, it seems Schatt's suspicions were correct, as even members of TFE have confirmed that ODN failed to communicate the risks until after a week had gone by. Much respect to TFE for continuing to stand by you despite the risk, but it was your duty as their protectors to inform them of the situation in the first place.

[Wu Tang Clan]

I'll just say good luck to TFE, and move on.

[itseZe]

[quote name='Vasuda' timestamp='1299617808' post='2656969']
However, just because they have brought in a large number of new nations does not mean that they are exempt from the established norms of Digiterra.[/quote]
You seem to disagree with 64D/CoJ there.

They were perfectly fine with us tech dealing with our other protectorate this entire war.
But when TFE does it, suddenly different rules apply.

I understand why 64D/CoJ tried it, they were hoping that because TFE was brand new they would get scared by their threats, while the more experienced people won't.
However their plan backfired when TFE stood their ground.



But this discussion is now anyway pointless. TFE, ODN, 64D and CoJ have all stated their position. Now it's time to wait and see.

[Ayatollah Bromeini]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299557913' post='2656228']
[IMG]http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff246/cndump/Lugosi/gasp_small.jpg[/IMG]

What are you going to do? Declare war on us?[/quote]


This is what I was thinking .

(OCC: I think a picture of the old, morphine addicted, Ed Wood era Lugosi would have worked better )


TFE, you have some mighty fine allies with ODN. Great bunch of guys.

o/ ODN

o/ TFE

[bucovina]

[quote name='Vasuda' timestamp='1299617808' post='2656969']
as even members of TFE have confirmed that ODN failed to communicate the risks until after a week had gone by. Much respect to TFE for continuing to stand by you despite the risk, but it was your duty as their protectors to inform them of the situation in the first place.
[/quote]

They knew about the risks from the start. They were informed we are in a war and bad things could come on them.
The thing with the week, was regarding our first contacts with them.

Rest assured "the great army" of CoJ and 64digits, consisting in 5 people, are too busy dealing with current wars.

Just a question for the great leaders of CoJ and 64digits: if we aid 10 nations from TFE and grow them real fast, so they will be in your range, will you jump out of PM to attack them?

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1299619431' post='2656995']
You seem to disagree with 64D/CoJ there.

They were perfectly fine with us tech dealing with our other protectorate this entire war.
But when TFE does it, suddenly different rules apply.

I understand why 64D/CoJ tried it, they were hoping that because TFE was brand new they would get scared by their threats, while the more experienced people won't.
However their plan backfired when TFE stood their ground.



But this discussion is now anyway pointless. TFE, ODN, 64D and CoJ have all stated their position. Now it's time to wait and see.
[/quote]
There are 16 GND - ODN transactions. There are 160 TFE - ODN transactions. First things first.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Schattenmann

[Barnaby von Farter]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1299622910' post='2657067']
There are 16 GND - ODN transactions. There are 160 TFE - ODN transactions. First things first.
[/quote]

You bring up a good point, Schatt ... I would like to take this opportunity to applaud the TFE membership for being so damned efficient. :thumbsup TFE:

Edit: It has been wonderful coordinating with you Floodies. This experience has helped me grow personally.

Edited March 8, 2011 by Barnaby von Farter

[joracy]

I think I'm being too wordy here, and you're misintrepating it for something it's not. Something you can debate and spin. It's not. I'm simply stating a fact to you. So I'll make it really, really simple for you Schatt.

You want to surrender to us? You'll probably get the exact same terms literally every single periphery alliance we've fought in the last few years has gotten. No re-entrance, maybe some kind of joke about an orange. I mean you're little applicant mass message thing has rather pissed us off, but hey.

You want to bring needless war to our protectorate? That changes things. You'll be paying them reps.

Now either shut the hell up and follow through on your petty threats, or just shut the hell up. I'd obviously rather you just shut up and not declare such a needless war, but hey, you're a [i]statesman[/i], so I'll let you make what ever decision you feel is rational.

As for HoT, if you want a lesson in global politics, I'll give you one! If you're A, losing a war and B, refusing to fight the upper tier of an alliance, and C, can likely leave the war with extremely light terms, then committing an action likely to drastically piss off the people winning the war for absolutely no political benefit to yourself(Because you aren't even fighting the upper tiers techdealing. To be rather bluntly honest, us techdealing is a net benefit for your little ankle biting war) is a terrible idea.

This turned out longer than I wanted . I'm kind of busy(which is why my responses tend to be a bit late), so when you've cut this apart to spend twice as many words stating nothing, give me a shout on irc so we can continue this pointless little argument(or just declare war/shut up. Either way)

[The MVP]

Schatt, if ODN's on the winning side? They'll do what they usually do, act all big and tough then think that the current power structure loves them so much that they'll assume they are equal to them and join in taunting "lesser" alliances. Maybe they'll laugh it off and make you feel not so bad taking shots at your misery; tell you to be quiet or else their big strong friends will have something to say about it. I mean they may take some damage, but hey.

If ODN's supposed to be on the losing side? Well then you can expect them to be switching 'em sides.

As for you HoT, if you even dare to fight a war in which you believe in, even if you'll lose, the ODN can do nothing but understand why anyone would do such a thing. Losing a war serves no benefit to the ODN and its nation strength, nor does it make them the lap dog they deserve to be. Instead they'd rather do tech deals and become bestest friends with those in power.

This turned out pretty great.

Edited March 8, 2011 by The MVP

[Machiabelly]

Unlike a lot of others I will try and stay at least a little on topic.

Welcome to the family TFE.

Happy to have you on side.

[YahwehFreak4evr]

[quote name='Machiabelly' timestamp='1299625560' post='2657130']
Unlike a lot of others I will try and stay at least a little on topic.

Welcome to the family TFE.

Happy to have you on side.
[/quote]

Thank ya' greatly. *takes off ten gallon hat*

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1299613753' post='2656900']
CoJ won't be disbanded.
[/quote]
Not because of anything ODN has to say. But good on you for observing what high caliber of an alliance the Cult is.

[quote name='Lucius Aerilius' timestamp='1299617094' post='2656955']
I may have worded things a tad strongly, but who can blame me for having a little fun with Schatt amiright?

The situation may have precedence, but its a bit unusual. TFE is a brand new AA, large enough to bring some life back to this place and actually end up being an impactful player in global affairs. Our dealing with them is honestly as much to see them grow and prosper as it is to get some yummy tech. It might be odd to others out there, but we here in the ODN genuinely want to see our friends in TFE succeed. Not have some faux cyber bully try and threaten and intimidate them in the early stages of their time here.

Any statements from myself or any other ODN'er as to the severity of reps is probably inaccurate. I can have some fun with Schatt, but in the end the Senate and SecGen are the only one with the authority to negotiate reps and stuff. I'll do my best to push for them to be severe, as there was a great deal of warning and nasty, dirty tactics used by CoJ and whatstheirname64somethingorother, but in the end that is not my decision.

I think in a few months you'll look back on this and remember it as the day Schatt was unable to do more than talk.
[/quote]
Oh please can we stop the silly threats of reps and !@#$ already?

I doubt ODN is going to give us white peace before we are done fighting MK, and MK certainly isn't going to even consider peace options until it comes to GOONS.

Now GOONS are going to be pushing for reps for far, far longer than ODN will. ODN will back down to another offer of white peace long before GOONS does, in an effort to gain much-needed PR. All of this nonsense is of course months, if not years, off into the future.

We are not going to leave until the rest of the coalition leaves, and that necessitates that your coalition also move as a single unit in peace talks. We (64Digits) are at war with 5 alliances, and ODN is only one of them. You think far, far too highly of yourselves if you think we give a damn about any of your threats. ODN is a joke, you always have been and you always will be. The other alliances we are fighting are GOONS, MK, Umb, and TOP. We are the least worried by far about anything the Optional Defense Network has to say.

[quote name='itseZe' timestamp='1299619431' post='2656995']
You seem to disagree with 64D/CoJ there.[/quote]
Correct, we have been rather lenient with them because of their young age. But our patience has limits.

[quote name='joracy' timestamp='1299623260' post='2657072']
As for HoT, if you want a lesson in global politics, I'll give you one! If you're A, losing a war and B, refusing to fight the upper tier of an alliance, and C, can likely leave the war with extremely light terms, then committing an action likely to drastically piss off the people winning the war for absolutely no political benefit to yourself(Because you aren't even fighting the upper tiers techdealing. To be rather bluntly honest, us techdealing is a net benefit for your little ankle biting war) is a terrible idea.
[/quote]
See above. 64Digits likely to leave this war with extremely light terms? Not when GOONS is involved, at least not without fighting for a very long time.

This is what you don't get. 64Digits and CoJ, and in fact much of the rest of this coalition, is prepared for a very long war. Not because of anything a joke of an alliance like ODN has to say. This is why your threats are absolutely meaningless. But you're so delusional you're already trotting out the "oh lol they won't attack" bull!@#$. Ah, typical childish goading. Never saw that before, good job ODN!

The thing is, 64Digits and the Cult are both alliances of honor. You can take our word as true, because what we say is going to happen is what is going to happen. We have held out an olive branch and an offer of forgiveness to TFE, and they in turn spit in our face. The terms we offered TFE, and which we still do, cause no harm to them, only harm to ODN.

I guess that is why ODN is so rabid in this thread, because we caught on and put our foot down. You know there is nothing you can do to maintain your flow of tech, except bluff and act all angry and such. But we already know there is nothing you can do to harm us. It might be different if we weren't also at war with GOONS and friends, but we are, and it renders any threat you can make at us devoid of all meaning. There is no power whatsoever behind your words, all you can do is come out here and pout.

Well, that's not entirely true, you could also order your protectorate to stop sending aid, but I think we all know by now how willing ODN is to drag their "protectorate" through the mud just to make sure they are well stocked on tech in the upper tiers.

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='KingEd' timestamp='1299548813' post='2656057']
First TPE, now TFE. I'm sensing a complex you Orange people

Great choice in a protector TFE, you will not regret it!
Best of luck in your endeavors!
[/quote]

I was thinking the exact same thing

[clearshot]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299626941' post='2657167']

The thing is, 64Digits and the Cult are both alliances of honor. You can take our word as true, because what we say is going to happen is what is going to happen. We have held out an olive branch and an offer of forgiveness to TFE, and they in turn spit in our face. The terms we offered TFE, and which we still do, cause no harm to them, only harm to ODN.

[/quote]Actually, by making us stop, we lose out on a lot of money. Our goal as a new alliance is to grow. No growth can occur if we back off every time an idle threat is made.

[paulus magintie]

Hero im confused.

What olive branch of forgivness are you talking about? All i remember was threats of war.

Also my statememnt still stand how will ODN take any damage if you attack TFE, because they have done fine without us so far. You guys seem to think highly of yourselves.
Also i couldn't help but noticed you said your prepared for a long war, is that why you are in peace mode and what was it you said to me? oh you need to take breaks, I wouldn't call that prepared.

[Debson]

I'm a member of TFE Security Council, and most of you against our tech deals sound like you're scraping for things to say to make us sound like damsels in distress, with ODN being the villian twiddling on his pencil mustache. We know what our actions are.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Debson

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='clearshot' timestamp='1299627566' post='2657189']
Actually, by making us stop, we lose out on a lot of money. Our goal as a new alliance is to grow. No growth can occur if we back off every time an idle threat is made.
[/quote]
We demand no restriction on ODN sending aid to TFE. We [i]only[/i] want TFE to stop aiding ODN. ODN is free to send you as much money as they want to help you grow, and they are free to arrange tech deals if the delivery is designated for post-war.

Our only gripe is with ODN receiving tech during war.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='paulus magintie' timestamp='1299628080' post='2657205']
Hero im confused.

What olive branch of forgivness are you talking about? All i remember was threats of war.

Also my statememnt still stand how will ODN take any damage if you attack TFE, because they have done fine without us so far. You guys seem to think highly of yourselves.
Also i couldn't help but noticed you said your prepared for a long war, is that why you are in peace mode and what was it you said to me? oh you need to take breaks, I wouldn't call that prepared.
[/quote]I regret that you are too new to understand how generous my offers have been. Normally, we would have declared on you without even attempting to talk because of the degree to which you sent volumes of aid to ODN. Any alliance would have done the same. But I saw that you were new, and reached out in an attempt to reach an agreeable deal.

Yes, I mentioned that what you did was an act of war. That is not me making a threat, that is me acknowledging the situation. I also acknowledged that we were well within our rights to act in defense against those acts of war, but pointed out my desire to instead reach a peaceful solution rather than engage in hostilities. I just wanted to be perfectly clear and not pretend that there was not a serious issue going on that could lead to war. I am an honest man, and I regret that you interpret my open honesty as a threat.

[paulus magintie]

I still don't see where you offered us to forgive you, as we can't forgive for something you haven't done.

Im kind of bored reading the same thing, again you know our stance now make your move or don't.

Edited March 9, 2011 by paulus magintie

[General Scipio]

Just stop responding to HoT. Who cares if his one nation not in anarcy declares war on you? 64digits and CoJ are some of the most irrelevant alliances, even if they declare war on you, they'll launch less than 2 wars. Just ignore them until they go away.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='paulus magintie' timestamp='1299632890' post='2657270']
I still don't see where you offered us to forgive you, as we can't forgive for something you haven't done.

Im kind of bored reading the same thing, again you know our stance now make your move or don't.
[/quote]
You misread, it was an offer of forgiveness from our end, that we would forgive every bit of the aid already sent as if it never happened. Normally, if an alliance were even granted a chance under similar circumstances, they would be required to pay some sort of reps, but we acknowledge your youth, and with it both your state of not yet knowing right from wrong, and your simple inability to pay anything.

I am only trying to clear things up with you in these last few posts. I'm done speaking with ODN on the matter at this point, and I'm not just repeating banter of this or that. I want to clarify things because it seems like you may have misread or misinterpreted various aspects of our discussion. Rest assured the actual discussion itself is over, unless you change your mind on your stance.

[quote]Just stop responding to HoT. Who cares if his one nation not in anarcy declares war on you? 64digits and CoJ are some of the most irrelevant alliances, even if they declare war on you, they'll launch less than 2 wars. Just ignore them until they go away.[/quote]
This would be poor advice.

[General Scipio]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299635391' post='2657302']
This would be poor advice.
[/quote]
You have one nation able to do any damage to TFE. That nation is 102NS . CoJ has one nation capable of hitting TFE. That nation is 1600NS. You are trying to bluff while showing everyone your hand. Your hand is a 6 high.

[Teltaur]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1299635391' post='2657302']
You misread, it was an offer of forgiveness from our end, that we would forgive every bit of the aid already sent as if it never happened. Normally, if an alliance were even granted a chance under similar circumstances, they would be required to pay some sort of reps, but we acknowledge your youth, and with it both your state of not yet knowing right from wrong, and your simple inability to pay anything.
[/quote]
I'm sorry, but if we haven't made it completely clear to you that we aren't the kind of ignorant sheep that you play us out to be, then I don't know what you've been reading. I completely expect a response similar to "but you are, ODN is controlling you like an abusive puppetmaster etc. etc." but I'm afraid you aren't leading us from the tyrannical oppression that you like to play out so much.

We know the implications of every one of our actions, as we have clearly stated, and if you continue to treat us as truly incapable of even making our own decisions then you're only fooling yourself.

Edited March 9, 2011 by Teltaur

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='General Scipio' timestamp='1299635975' post='2657309']
You have one nation able to do any damage to TFE. That nation is 102NS . CoJ has one nation capable of hitting TFE. That nation is 1600NS. You are trying to bluff while showing everyone your hand. Your hand is a 6 high.
[/quote]
I think the extreme lengths to which you go to downplay our coalition's ability to defend against acts of war and assure TFE that nothing is going to happen when something very clearly is, is the most disturbing and disgusting thing of this whole ordeal.

At least let ODN drag their protectorate through the mud on their own.

[Devilyn Caster]

TFE seem like good peoples, and as for ODN...

Congrats on the protectorate guys!
o/ ODN!
o/ TFE!