Kalasin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296443700' post='2611934'] We have changed and you have nothing postmarked pre-2009 to believe anything you just said. You cannot use religion, the doctrines of faiths are already written, the most one can do is appeal to them. @Free Quebec: Cite one incidence since 2009 which this has occurred please. [/quote] I love how you completely ignored my post. And the premises I set out aren't even sufficient to establish what you're trying to establish, they're just a starting point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296443700' post='2611934'] We have changed [/quote] I beg to differ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296443855' post='2611937'] I love how you completely ignored my post. And the premises I set out aren't even sufficient to establish what you're trying to establish, they're just a starting point. [/quote] I have not responded to that segment because if you have a closed mind to faith there will be no convincing you. Thus there is no point in continuing that segment of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1296443881' post='2611938'] I beg to differ. [/quote] Would you care to actually contribute something besides your begging to differ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalasin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444008' post='2611941'] I have not responded to that segment because if you have a closed mind to faith there will be no convincing you. Thus there is no point in continuing that segment of discussion. [/quote] I don't have a closed mind to faith. I'm willing to listen to any logical argument you care to set forth. So far you've just made a whole load of assertions. Even if you're not even trying to prove that objective truth exists, and that religious people everywhere should defend the NPO, I'm afraid that the vast majority of the population of Bob don't believe in God or gods, and thus your little treatise is going to fall on deaf ears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 The war on evil is currently being fought by the brave forces of VE, iFOK, PC and FOK. The OP got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296444157' post='2611944'] I don't have a closed mind to faith. I'm willing to listen to any logical argument you care to set forth. So far you've just made a whole load of assertions. Even if you're not even trying to prove that objective truth exists, and that religious people everywhere should defend the NPO, I'm afraid that the vast majority of the population of Bob don't believe in God or gods, and thus your little treatise is going to fall on deaf ears. [/quote] No amount of arguing will build faith or a faith. It requires the individual to search out for the meaning of his creation and life in order to find it. That said, nothing I say to you will be adequate to your needs. I would suggest reading a bible. Others would suggest different ideas.. all the same, it is up for you to seek your answers and to come to the truth. Your statement that the majority of population of Bob do not believe in God or gods is wrong. If you check basic statistics of the world of Bob you will see there is not an even distribution of faiths held by any nation. This is not coincidental. People do not select faiths at random. In this statement you are totally wrong and it [i]CAN[/i] be proven via basic demographics. edit: Rephrased to be more IC. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1296444240' post='2611946'] The war on evil is currently being fought by the brave forces of VE, iFOK, PC and FOK. The OP got it wrong. [/quote] There is nothing brave about attacking someone who did nothing to you. It's an act of fear. Many of your leadership even accounted for it as a "fear of NPO's rise." You should really stop contradicting yourselves, it proves your attempts at deception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444059' post='2611942'] Would you care to actually contribute something besides your begging to differ? [/quote] I seem to recall being held at war for three weeks while being ZI'd twice by the New Pacific Order for raiding red. I also seem to recall being unaligned and receiving my beat down while members from GOONS, MK etc got away with their "crimes". As far as I'm concerned you haven't changed a bit. You're still opportunistic and you still pick on the little guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1296444495' post='2611950'] I seem to recall being held at war for three weeks while being ZI'd twice by the New Pacific Order for raiding red. I also seem to recall being unaligned and receiving my beat down while members from GOONS, MK etc got away with their "crimes". As far as I'm concerned you haven't changed a bit. You're still opportunistic and you still pick on the little guy. [/quote] I'm going to guess this was well before 2009 and thus does nothing to prove that we have not changed. You are perfectly within your rights to be willfully wrong and evil through self-deception and delusion. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444570' post='2611951'] I'm going to guess this was well before 2009 and thus does nothing to prove that we have not changed. [/quote] Nope, it happened in 2010. During the Red Raiding Safari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1296443743' post='2611935'] I have to interject myself into this religious debate and point out that you do not know what being a "hypocrite" means. A hypocrite is defined as someone who's current actions contradict his own rhetoric. That is to say, to be a hypocrite is to feign a particular belief or a set of beliefs. Now unless you can prove that we still are that which you claim ourselves to be, you cannot possibly have a good argument for calling us a hypocrite. [/quote] Yes yes, we all know that's the only argument you are able to cling to. "We haven't done anything...yet." Just because you haven't had a chance to show your true colors in a while doesn't mean you've changed. The war on evil is the war against you. We will fight until you can no longer threaten any alliance again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) @Damsky Well of course, you gave us a cause to attack you. You were raiding red. You were acting aggressively and without cause other than self profiteering. We were stopping your acts of evil against those we were to protect. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296444833' post='2611957'] Yes yes, we all know that's the only argument you are able to cling to. "We haven't done anything...yet." Just because you haven't had a chance to show your true colors in a while doesn't mean you've changed. The war on evil is the war against you. We will fight until you can no longer threaten any alliance again. [/quote] I'm sure you are gifted with telepathy and precognition to know everything we think over here and to anticipate that we had something planned for you. You had no reason besides conjecture. You had no reason besides assumption. Your acts were evil. You were aggressive without cause. We threatened none then. We fight to survive now and hopefully long enough to prevent your paranoia from being a threat to us and our peers again, until of course you reform and we forgive you. Your best bet now would be to wake up, try to negotiate a white peace and voluntarily offer to compensate us for the damage you have caused us with your mistake. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444840' post='2611958'] Well of course, you gave us a cause to attack you. You were raiding red. You were acting aggressively and without cause other than self profiteering. We were stopping your acts of evil against those we were to protect. [/quote] Raiding isn't an act of evil. It's an act of freedom. But that is a discussion for another time. My point was is that you are opportunistic. You'll wait for the best time to attack your enemies (in this case when they're unaligned) and strike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crymson Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444059' post='2611942'] Would you care to actually contribute something besides your begging to differ? [/quote] You're getting nowhere, old-timer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1296445085' post='2611967'] Raiding isn't an act of evil. It's an act of freedom. But that is a discussion for another time. My point was is that you are opportunistic. You'll wait for the best time to attack your enemies (in this case when they're unaligned) and strike. [/quote] You are not "free" to commit acts of aggression against your peers for no other reason than profit. It's an act of evil. We had no such thoughts. To have such thoughts we would have to be provoked or be activated by a treaty partner. We would have proper cause to enter the war. We learned, unlike you, that just starting a war without cause can be quite hazardous to one's survival and health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1296444833' post='2611957'] Yes yes, we all know that's the only argument you are able to cling to. "We haven't done anything...yet." Just because you haven't had a chance to show your true colors in a while doesn't mean you've changed. The war on evil is the war against you. We will fight until you can no longer threaten any alliance again. [/quote] That's great and fantastic. Except the "only argument we are able to cling to" is concrete and logical because there are facts to back it up. Your argument however relies on some sort logic derived from an imagined universe. My favorite part about moralist apologists such as yourself is that you have to rely on the very "evil methods" your enemies perpetuate (or rather perpetuated) in order to fight evil. Now [i]that[/i] is hypocrisy. Edited January 31, 2011 by Jrenster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feanor Noldorin Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444493' post='2611949'] There is nothing brave about attacking someone who did nothing to you. It's an act of fear. Many of your leadership even accounted for it as a "fear of NPO's rise." You should really stop contradicting yourselves, it proves your attempts at deception. [/quote] I don't believe my leadership has came and said anything about the NPO, good sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnCapistan Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296445244' post='2611972'] We had no such thoughts. To have such thoughts we would have to be provoked or be activated by a treaty partner. [/quote] By your own admission Red is your treaty partner. If they are tech raided and request help you must give it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diogenes Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444008' post='2611941'] I have not responded to that segment because if you have a closed mind to faith there will be no convincing you. Thus there is no point in continuing that segment of discussion. [/quote] [quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1296379078' post='2610913'] OOC: Actually, I'm one of the few people on these boards who is a Christian in real life. [/quote] Listen here, Kalasin -- you are free to diametrically oppose religious faith and deny the existence of a higher power, but I think it would be better for all of us if you kept your narrow-mindedness out of this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threefingeredguy Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Maelstrom Vortex' timestamp='1296444980' post='2611962'] I'm sure you are gifted with telepathy and precognition to know everything we think over here and to anticipate that we had something planned for you. You had no reason besides conjecture. You had no reason besides assumption. Your acts were evil. You were aggressive without cause. We threatened none then. We fight to survive now and hopefully long enough to prevent your paranoia from being a threat to us and our peers again, until of course you reform and we forgive you. Your best bet now would be to wake up, try to negotiate a white peace and voluntarily offer to compensate us for the damage you have caused us with your mistake. [/quote] Pardon the assumption I guess, but assuming the NPO is evil is as safe an assumption as assuming the sun is going to rise in the morning. I guess you're trying to cover for it in this thread where you're trying to play some near-OOC morality card. NPO has never made it a secret that they want to have a crushing domination over the game, strangling the life out of it. We will not let you do that. That's also the part of your original post I don't get. We're not attacking for no reason, there is nothing immoral about this. We are attacking you because you are NPO. We don't want you ruining everyone else's fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 [quote name='Feanor Noldorin' timestamp='1296445392' post='2611978'] I don't believe my leadership has came and said anything about the NPO, good sir. [/quote] I'm referring to Doom House in general. TOP specifically has been fairly silent on the issue outside of Crymson. I'll give you that for credit where it's due. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maelstrom Vortex Posted January 31, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1296445491' post='2611979'] By your own admission Red is your treaty partner. If they are tech raided and request help you must give it. [/quote] Most religions would see those who defend persons who have been aggressed against without proper cause as a noble entity. Edited January 31, 2011 by Maelstrom Vortex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Apocalypse Posted January 31, 2011 Report Share Posted January 31, 2011 (edited) If we are to use religion as a means to justify our arguments then I hope you don't mind if I do the same? Tlentifinni Maarhaysu is the holy text of the Bumcivilian religion(the most prominent religion within the nation of Anubia) According to Tlentifinni Maarhaysu there is no good or evil, and to create and abide by such concepts is not morally wrong, but objectively wrong. When a situation arises involving somebody describing an action as good or evil it is certain that the person engaging in such behavior is simply using their own moral guidelines as a means to justify their actions or denounce the actions of others. Morals are merely a tool with which to make ourselves feel better and righteous dependent on what path we take. This scenario is described by the holy book as 'The Helvetica Scenario' Adherents to the Bumcivilianist way believe that there is no sense in masking our actions with a veil of moralist lies for eventually we will be revealed as hypocrites. For all people who believe themselves to be morally righteous will inevitably participate in something that their holy scripture dictates as immoral. Instead of acknowledging this, they will twist their so-called holy text and the morals which it espouses to once again justify their actions. So instead of this, we Bumcivilians will justify our actions with empirical truths and will not engage in the circular logic of moralism. For if we do, we inevitably will find ourselves in a state of cognitive dissonance. On that note, I must leave and pray to our deity; Tarvu. I trust you will all join me. Tarvu tarvooti, Oboonoo cTooti, Mimmin O'tibbi noonah, Mdfitty fitty noonah, Arvu immentiBarvu, O' Tarvu. Edited January 31, 2011 by Johnny Apocalypse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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