Karl I Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 IDK how many of you actually check out the blog section for any alliance related topics especially a DoW that should have been posted in the Alliance Announcement section, but I certainly don't.. Don't have time for blogging matters.. BUT I was SO surprised when I came across this and decided to bring it to light... [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display§ion=blog&blogid=416&showentry=2579"]Blog War - VE declares on KoH[/url] Thank-you for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 A state of war existed between the two from the moment KoH hit their protectorate, per their treaty. The declaration is merely a formality, and an unnecessary one at that, that everyone seems to go crazy about if it's missing. Obviously if you're starting a war like VE did it's good to get the declaration out there because it allowed them to state clearly their intent and their reasons and give them a soap box to sway anyone who may have been on the fence, but in situations like this? Why even bother, you know if you declare on a VE protectorate that VE will be attacking you back, I doubt KoH was surprised by the counter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britishdude Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Surprised by the counter? Not at all. Surprised by the fact that we were under attack by VE nations and I could find a DoW nowhere? Just a tad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felix von Agnu Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Thank you for bringing VE's startling tyranny to light. How dare they state elsewhere that they are defending a protectorate! The OWF is so devoid of anything drama related right now, so clearly it should have gone there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kowalski Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Whoever wrote this ridiculous rule book that says there must be a valid DoW and a water-tight CB is an idiot. Whoever follows those rules is an even bigger idiot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poyplemonkeys Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1296234118' post='2607527'] Surprised by the counter? Not at all. Surprised by the fact that we were under attack by VE nations and I could find a DoW nowhere? Just a tad. [/quote] Well next time don't attack their protectorate [img]http://www.otf2.com/forums/images/smilies/sorry.gif[/img] A state of war between your alliances existed the moment you did that, VE don't have to officially recognise it to respond to it. Edited January 28, 2011 by Poyplemonkeys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanveldez Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I think that the biggest problem is that while they may of been their protectorate and yes it is to be expected that if you attack them you will yourselves be attacked, but the problem lies in the fact that while there is no rule against it, it is traditional to announce it on the forums proper. Honestly I think that VE needs to grow a set and man up to their responsibilities and announce it the way that ever other alliance does. they had no problem doing it when they decided to go after NpO so why change what works? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRena Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 The probably didn't want the PR backlash from attacking a smaller AA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1296236754' post='2607595'] The probably didn't want the PR backlash from attacking a smaller AA [/quote] No, they attacked our protectorate so we were in a defacto state of war with them already, it was posted just for a bit of book keeping really and is nothing more than minutia. There doesn't have to be gut wrenching outrage over everything, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulmar Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 It's funny because even though VE is all like "we don't need to announce it", they announce it anyways, albeit in a less patrolled sector. Stay hip VE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Britishdude' timestamp='1296234118' post='2607527'] Surprised by the counter? Not at all. Surprised by the fact that we were under attack by VE nations and I could find a DoW nowhere? Just a tad. [/quote] Here, let me point you to our declaration of war: http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=97615 [quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1296237304' post='2607607'] It's funny because even though VE is all like "we don't need to announce it", they announce it anyways, albeit in a less patrolled sector. Stay hip VE. [/quote] We weren't going to until the silly little e-lawyers came out to play. It totally had everything to do with being hip, though. Read Impero's post, he actually has some advice for you in there. Edited January 28, 2011 by Smooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRena Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1296237122' post='2607604'] No, they attacked our protectorate so we were in a defacto state of war with them already, it was posted just for a bit of book keeping really and is nothing more than minutia. There doesn't have to be gut wrenching outrage over everything, you know. [/quote] Your protectorate entered an agressive war. Though, VE defending that isn't a supprise, like farther like son Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1296237509' post='2607610'] Your protectorate entered an agressive war. Though, VE defending that isn't a supprise, like farther like son [/quote] E-lawyer e-lawyer e-lawyer e-lawyer e-lawyer e-lawyer Hey guys does it make me cool yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarmatian Empire Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1296237122' post='2607604'] No, they attacked our protectorate so we were in a defacto state of war with them already, it was posted just for a bit of book keeping really and is nothing more than minutia. There doesn't have to be gut wrenching outrage over everything, you know. [/quote] While I could careless about this situation because it plays no role in my world... Say for !@#$% and giggles I declare war on GOD. You have a mutual defense pact with them, therefore you are in a defacto state of war. Yet you would still post a proper DoW would you not? Again dont care and I'm sure someone will come along and say how the alliance size matters, because it is actually the size that defines if an alliance is post worth or not, but whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleRena Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='Smooth' timestamp='1296237796' post='2607616'] E-lawyer e-lawyer e-lawyer e-lawyer e-lawyer e-lawyer Hey guys does it make me cool yet? [/quote] Nice argument you have their, clearly well thought out, you must have like a degree in debating or something. If you can't come up with an argument, just stick your fingures in your ears, shout the samething over and over again and hope it'll stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Impero Romano Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1296237949' post='2607622'] While I could careless about this situation because it plays no role in my world... Say for !@#$% and giggles I declare war on GOD. You have a mutual defense pact with them, therefore you are in a defacto state of war. Yet you would still post a proper DoW would you not? Again dont care and I'm sure someone will come along and say how the alliance size matters, because it is actually the size that defines if an alliance is post worth or not, but whatever. [/quote] Oh no not at all, your completely right there actually. However, protectorate does not equate to a MADP. Like I said, really just some record keeping and nothing for anyone to freak out over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirWilliam Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I, too, am SO surprised. And a bit outraged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurion Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 I honestly don't see what's so OUTRAGEOUS about VE responding to an attack on their protectorate. But... whatever floats your boat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenmann Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Came for the title, stayed to watch Smooth look like the jackass he is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fyfe XIV Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 Maybe because not everything that happens in this game deserves its own topic. KoH? Not important enough to warrant the space a DoW will take in Alliance Announcements. This topic? Even more worthless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tromp Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 (edited) [quote name='Sarmatian Empire' timestamp='1296237949' post='2607622'] While I could careless about this situation because it plays no role in my world... Say for !@#$% and giggles I declare war on GOD. You have a mutual defense pact with them, therefore you are in a defacto state of war. [b]Yet you would still post a proper DoW would you not?[/b] Again dont care and I'm sure someone will come along and say how the alliance size matters, because it is actually the size that defines if an alliance is post worth or not, but whatever. [/quote] I wouldn´t post a DoW, as that implies you are the one attacking. No, recognize a state of war with the alliance that attacked your treatypartner. Edited January 28, 2011 by Tromp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smooth Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1296238090' post='2607628'] Nice argument you have their, clearly well thought out, you must have like a degree in debating or something.If you can't come up with an argument, just stick your fingures in your ears, shout the samething over and over again and hope it'll stop. [/quote] I wasn't aware I was attempting to facilitate a debate. I was just letting you know what I got out of your post. Next time, I'll be sure to let you know which is the case. [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1296238370' post='2607637'] Came for the title, stayed to watch Smooth look like the jackass he is. [/quote] Thanks, Schatt. It really is touching coming from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karl I Posted January 28, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='Aurion' timestamp='1296238284' post='2607634'] I honestly don't see what's so OUTRAGEOUS about VE responding to an attack on their protectorate. But... whatever floats your boat. [/quote] clearly you are missing the point here... it is not so much that VE countered KoH's counter on MN on NpO.. but rather that they don't find it worthy to post a proper DoW in the proper section of the forums.. whether they are the protector of MN or have a higher treaty.. any sort of DoW is posted.. not some stupid blog post that no one can see.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juanveldez Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1296238162' post='2607629'] Oh no not at all, your completely right there actually. However, protectorate does not equate to a MADP. Like I said, really just some record keeping and nothing for anyone to freak out over. [/quote] You can most certainly equate a MADP with a protectorate. I have yet to see a protectorate agreement that doesn't have some form of mutual defense clause in it. While it is almost always optional for the smaller AA to get involved it is still a mutual defense clause. Furthermore if you take it one step higher to a MDAP bloc such as SF, it is widely known that an attack on one is an attack on the others after all it is nothing more than a group of alliances banding together for mutual protection. Now while SF is split in who they are supporting in the current conflict, I have no doubt that there are no hard feelings between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britishdude Posted January 28, 2011 Report Share Posted January 28, 2011 [quote name='Fyfe XIV' timestamp='1296238726' post='2607646'] Maybe because not everything that happens in this game deserves its own topic. KoH? Not important enough to warrant the space a DoW will take in Alliance Announcements. This topic? Even more worthless. [/quote] I thank you for the tremendous respect given to me and the members of my alliance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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