juanveldez

make him do a karaoke version of The Gap Bands classic "You Dropped a Bomb on ME" and post it to youtube.

Welcome to the party guys... Good luck and have fun.

This is horrible news. Having been through that IRL with my Step Father I honestly wish him and his family the best and they will definatly be in my prayers.

Congrats to you guys especially Cable and Hoopdy!!! I will definatly be seeing you guys around.

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' timestamp='1298046728' post='2637603'] Taking 40,000 tech from a peripheral alliance surely is evil is it not? That means they are sort of doing what people disliked back then. ( Because pacifica was more evil then us doesn't really hold good here tbh ) If they do back down from it now and have a good FA team, I believe most of the fallout could be turned over ( which is what I believe the apology was meant for ). Seems rather a real face saver looking at in the long run. They are in a corner they made for themselves no one else did it for them, and the balls in their court if they want to get out of it. [size="1"]*note: Forgive me if I come of to harsh. [/size] [/quote] No not harsh at all. That being said the pacifica argument doesn't hold water in the reverse either. You can't compare one bad act to years of bad acts and aggression. As for the rest well the ball is really in both of their courts to solve this and really the thread has become moot as only Legacy, CSN and DT should be the ones working anything out.

This could very easily be settled. But, allow me to play a little devils advocate here. Did anyone stop to think about the opposing view? There have been many posts liking CSN to NPO. Now historically NPO was tyrannical and evil, and they deserved what they got. Now show me where in history CSN was the same? Furthermore, if you can not find it in history then you can not paint the two with the same brush. Now to the issue of the reps. Did you ever stop to consider that they are not able to back down from them now? By going public and getting the whole world mad at them you have successfully painted them the villain and cemented them into the corner that they find themselves in. To a point where they can't successfully withdraw the reps and not look like a donkey's rear so they must stay the course, and be the part of the villain, which will only cause more hatred and as many have so kindly pointed out will end with the eventual rolling of CSN. Now remembering that these are my opinions and mine alone. I honestly think that as was said just prior that neither side is going to be 100 percent happy with the end result. And, that both sides need to grow up a bit and as history has shown swallow their foolish pride and get down to the bones of the issue.

[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1298002586' post='2637278'] As silly and incomprehensible as your '2 simple questions' are, I'll give it the ol' college try: Ummm...we are dealing with CSN and Legacy. I see by your squirely ignorance that you didn't read the OP. So, go back, read that, and report back to me. [/quote] Actually I did read the op, didn't bother with the logs though, I find log dumps to be boring and a tiresome read as it is. Though they do have their place as everybody is going to say "where are the logs" and of course you have those that say the logs are fake. so I don't even bother with logs. That being said I still find myself not agreeing 100 percent with either side of the argument as I said in my op. Because I decided that I got bored in PM came out fought for 16 days out of PM decided that was boring as LoSS only turtled the minute you hit them with a nuke and the whole while their allies never countered me nor did they. So really all I see is a bunch of chest thumping and brow beating, from both sides of the table. So when you say that we are at an impasse only because CSN has made it so I would have to disagree, and say that both parties are responsible, as this thread only keeps that cycle going.

[quote name='Dochartaigh' timestamp='1298002478' post='2637273'] you do realize that CSN stated Xiph was allowed to speak on their behalf right? i would believe that is why our gov would continue to speak with Xiph. [/quote] No I didn't. Like I said I only halfheartedly followed all this.

[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1298001132' post='2637258'] What? You digress? I'm not sure that you and I are playing the same game. This is Cybernations. Check your browser, brah. [/quote] Oh it is exactly where it is supposed to be. But seeing as how you can't even answer 2 simple questions....

[quote name='mmansfield68' timestamp='1298000171' post='2637239'] There is no 'impasse' - other than the one CSN wishes to impose. We're not begging peace. We're asking for an end to hostilities. We're not offering to surrender. We're still fighting, and will continue to do so. We simply feel, as the battlefield has changed, that we are now fighting for no reason. The Dark Templar never has, and would never desire, to fight for no reason. Our objectives have been met, and we wish to go home and polish our swords. [/quote] I am pretty sure that the reason you entered is just as valid now as it was then. Your ally is still in a war with CSN and Legacy, but I digress, that leave my other two questions realitivly unanswered. Why enter into talks with someone whom you know isn't even part of the alliance that you are dealing with? And, what is it that you hope to achieve in the long run by dragging all this out onto OWF?

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1297997862' post='2637196'] shedding light on an injustice is never a bad move. god knows if they're retarded enough to ask for these reps in the first place, then they're retarded enough to actually start believing they're right lest a multitude of people point out otherwise. we all know it was public opinion that brought down the rule of Pacifica, and it will be public opinion that will bring the same guns to CSNs door soon enough. [/quote] I can agree with that Hizzy. As far as shedding light on an injustice is good, and I know were the shoe on the other foot I would be doing much the same. But, from what I have gathered DT feels that by doing this alone will change the situation. As we all know that bring down the rule of Pacifica was a task that took many many months and much give and take. And IMO from both sides it has just been take and take. And before things get all bent out of shape allow me to explain. DT of course did not like the reps demands, understandable. They then go to CSN say "hey we don't like em, here is what we offer instead." CSN didn't like it for what ever reason. so then DT says its white peace or nothing and so now here we are at the impasse. where there is no give and no take just take and take. So then the question becomes how do we push through this impasse?

So here is what I don't get. I have only been halfheartedly following this thread. 1.) Goose leaves talks. okay so you would think that common sense says you leave because you already know that xilph isn't in CSN let alone in their gov. So the question then becomes why on gods green earth would you then continue talks with him? 2.) xilph puts the bug in CSN's ear about the reps okay fine. What possible outcome do you hope to achieve in the long run by dragging your talks out to the court of public appeals where in all fact and manner these people have absolutely nothing to do with any talks on going or not. Now don't take me wrong I honestly agree somewhat in that this is only a fringe war and reps should not be asked for. HOWEVER, and I can not stress that enough. I don't represent CSN or Legacy GOV, and therefore, it is only my opinion so don't go running off saying to CSN see even your allies don't agree with you cause we all know it is crap.

Like many others I can not say that this was unexpected. The writing has been on the walls for some time now. TGE was where I went when I first joined like many others. It is also where I learned the game mechanics and politics. And while the last few months have been a free fall with no parachute for them. I wish all their members the best of luck in their endeavors and hope that they find good homes.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' timestamp='1296238162' post='2607629'] Oh no not at all, your completely right there actually. However, protectorate does not equate to a MADP. Like I said, really just some record keeping and nothing for anyone to freak out over. [/quote] You can most certainly equate a MADP with a protectorate. I have yet to see a protectorate agreement that doesn't have some form of mutual defense clause in it. While it is almost always optional for the smaller AA to get involved it is still a mutual defense clause. Furthermore if you take it one step higher to a MDAP bloc such as SF, it is widely known that an attack on one is an attack on the others after all it is nothing more than a group of alliances banding together for mutual protection. Now while SF is split in who they are supporting in the current conflict, I have no doubt that there are no hard feelings between them.

I think that the biggest problem is that while they may of been their protectorate and yes it is to be expected that if you attack them you will yourselves be attacked, but the problem lies in the fact that while there is no rule against it, it is traditional to announce it on the forums proper. Honestly I think that VE needs to grow a set and man up to their responsibilities and announce it the way that ever other alliance does. they had no problem doing it when they decided to go after NpO so why change what works?