FAN Announcement

[Locke]

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1295044435' post='2575410']
FAN is lucky to be alive?
How on earth were you planning to kill them? FAN has 3000 nukes and some solid friends too.
[/quote]
It's not as though MFO is friendless.

[mattski133]

FAN shows the world, let your members know, don't attack FAN. LIke that needed to be repeated, anyone who's spent time here should know that.

The risk of being in an alliance that has not taken measures to put itself in a position of defense is, well...possible attack if you stumble. I'm sure if someone from TOP or CSN, to use examples, had done this, it'd been handled differently. That's...reality.

Wars can start by one nation attacking; there's precedent for that. Wars can start from manufactured traps as well. Who is to say which is fair or "right"...I prefer the former though the latter seems to occur more often and has bigger fireworks.

I will say, if MFO had gone 1v1 with FAN it looks like it would have been interesting to say the least. There's some big boys over there.

My four cents.

[40pirate]

[quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1295042725' post='2575373']
I find the chatter about how MFO is lucky this wasn't worse or that it wouldn't have happened had it been another alliance amusing.

Even in this instance, FAN is lucky to be alive. In general I'm all for aggressive diplomacy, but with such an aggressive defense including some thirty war declarations affecting a great deal more than the original perpetrator, it can no longer be classified as an aggressive action. Luckily I like FAN and am pretty busy.
[/quote]



I don't frequent these halls so I'm not sure if you are renowned for humor but I must say that this has been the funniest thing I've seen lately.

If it wasn't intended as humor please take no offense when I say that greater nations, in both quality and quantity, have tried to "kill" FAN.

[JoshuaR]

Sure, you're right. They would have still been alive. We would have only mauled them in a short skirmish. We're not evil.

[bakamitai]

[s]Good luck to both sides. Let's hope this turns into something useful.[/s]

Boo, this didn't last nearly long enough.

Edited January 15, 2011 by bakamitai

[LegendoftheSkies]

[quote name='kulomascovia' timestamp='1295035856' post='2575297']
I wonder what the reaction would have been if it was another alliance who declared war over a spy attack.
[/quote]

If we had done this it would've been a !@#$ storm without a doubt.

Hm... *takes notes*



In any case, I actually have a lot of respect for FAN challenging precedent here.

[foxodi]

War on an entire alliance for a rogue-incident that happens pretty damn often and is routinely concluded by diplomacy.
Clearly a "might makes right" approach, on a rather defunct but peaceful alliance. Poor show.

[Bleda]

Perhaps it happens too often .... And folks do way too much talking

[Bleda]

Ooops , double tapped

Edited January 15, 2011 by Bleda

[ironchef]

[quote name='LegendoftheSkies' timestamp='1295059550' post='2575636']
If we had done this it would've been a !@#$ storm without a doubt.

Hm... *takes notes*



In any case, I actually have a lot of respect for FAN challenging precedent here.
[/quote]

The precedent sucks


[quote name='foxodi' timestamp='1295060764' post='2575659']
War on an entire alliance for a rogue-incident that happens pretty damn often and is routinely concluded by diplomacy.
Clearly a "might makes right" approach, on a rather defunct but peaceful alliance. Poor show.
[/quote]

You can still have the alliance name in your AA, still hold a members mask on your alliance forum, still have ops in your alliance irc chan, still get aid from your alliance but you can be labeled a [b]rogue[/b] by your alliance government so they are not held responsible for your actions and you get to stay a member. I like to call them Member Rogues, you get to keep them in your alliance and aid them but you are not responsible, win win. So yes by today’s standards he could be classified as a rogue. What has this world become.
Call me old school, but this new way of thinking is bullsquat.

[Guest Mike Oldfield]

[quote name='JoshuaR' timestamp='1295042725' post='2575373']
I find the chatter about how MFO is lucky this wasn't worse or that it wouldn't have happened had it been another alliance amusing.

Even in this instance, FAN is lucky to be alive. In general I'm all for aggressive diplomacy, but with such an aggressive defense including some thirty war declarations affecting a great deal more than the original perpetrator, it can no longer be classified as an aggressive action. Luckily I like FAN and am pretty busy.
[/quote]
let's see, one of your members spy attacks FAN, destroying a significant amount of cash money, FAN raises the issue, MFO protects said rogue. An action that has caused wars in the past, FAN, having tried and exhausted that venue does what many other alliances would have done. MFO becomes the victim and FAN the bad guys? Gotta love what the world is coming too
FAN had to get your attention somehow JoshuaR
also 2,000 + nations comprising the #3 most powerful bloc in CN history (One Vision), 33 million some odd NS tried to kill FAN and failed, FAN isn't alive by "Luck" FAN is alive because they are pound for pound the best military ever fielded in CN history. being one of the most strongly bonded alliance communities in CN played a huge part aswell.

Edited January 15, 2011 by Mike Oldfield

[SyndicatedINC]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1295024463' post='2575169']
Fourteen days in and we've already got the post of the year.
[/quote]

Actually Fourteen days and a few more hours in and there is an even better post of the year:

[quote name='mpol777' timestamp='1295025278' post='2575182']
My crystal ball doesn't work any more and I don't understand your treaty web. I operate on the assumption that at any given time I need to kill the world.
[/quote]

[AirMe]

[quote name='Mike Oldfield' timestamp='1295087811' post='2575943']
let's see, one of your members spy attacks FAN, destroying a significant amount of cash money, FAN raises the issue, MFO protects said rogue. An action that has caused wars in the past, FAN, having tried and exhausted that venue does what many other alliances would have done. MFO becomes the victim and FAN the bad guys? Gotta love what the world is coming too
FAN had to get your attention somehow JoshuaR
also 2,000 + nations comprising the #3 most powerful bloc in CN history (One Vision), 33 million some odd NS tried to kill FAN and failed, FAN isn't alive by "Luck" FAN is alive because they are pound for pound the best military ever fielded in CN history. being one of the most strongly bonded alliance communities in CN played a huge part aswell.
[/quote]

Except that isn't how it happened.

A member acting on his own in a fit of stupidity spied on a FAN nation and destroyed some cash. FAN never raised the issue, FAN out and out attacked the whole alliance instead of FAN piling the offending nation while trying contact MFO to figure out if the rest of the alliance was involved.

What actually happened is completely different from your version of events.

Edited January 15, 2011 by AirMe

[Petrovich4]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295104521' post='2576036']
Except that isn't how it happened.

A member acting on his own in a fit of stupidity spied on a FAN nation and destroyed some cash. FAN never raised the issue, FAN out and out attacked the whole alliance instead of FAN piling the offending nation while trying contact MFO to figure out if the rest of the alliance was involved.

What actually happened is completely different from your version of events.
[/quote]

You forgot two things AirMe - A [i]senior[/i] member acting on his own, [i]within an alliance[/i] . . . .

And also, it is not our prerogative to initiate diplomatic contact all the time.


Remember, we were attacked by terrorists.

[nippy]

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1295035314' post='2575294']
It's not hypocrisy when the situations are different. I'm sure you'll recall how many times Nueva Vida had to settle things diplomatically with GOONS because of botched raids on either our members or protectorates, to the point where we finally agreed that we had enough of "talking things out" when you guys weren't catching on. Fortunately for you, no more incidents occurred since that consensus, but are you saying it would have been hypocritical to attack someone physical after previously using diplomatic means? That's merely the point I'm making; MFO has absolutely no track record of wrongfully attacking someone, so to show them some leniency is not hypocrisy. You guys on the other hand encourage tech raiding to the point that you have a significant number of botched raids, and even the audacity to label an entire alliance as "rogues" if they choose to attack you as a result of one of your members' raids.
[/quote]
Hey, thanks for ignoring most of what my post was comprised of. You conveniently ignored my request for you to find the last three botched raids, who they involved, and what the end result was. You also conveniently ignored my request for you to find the last three times the botched raids weren't handled amicably and left the other alliance content with the reparations. You're failing to make a point quite well, hizzy. As I stated, your decision to sway your views on this matter based upon who is involved in the matter is precisely what makes you a hypocrite.

[quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1295035314' post='2575294']
In fact, if I were to parallel the incident where one of your members tech raided a member of a small alliance (I forget their name, maybe you can remember?) that ended up responding to the tech raid by declaring war on GOONS, then FAN would be that "smaller" alliance which you all declared a bunch of rogues and had placed on sanctions. Who's the hypocrite now?
[/quote]
Am I talking to you, or am I talking to Peggy? Did you somehow get your hands on that same sack of crazy powder? Thanks for the ridiculous comparison. I'm going to go out on a limb here and state that if you can't even remember the AA that attacked GOONS for a supposed tech raid, that you don't know nearly enough details to be talking about it.

Also, congrats to MFO for being considered the same as a band of nuclear rogues by lil' hizzy fit. I'm sure you guys appreciate it.

[Princess Doomee]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295104521' post='2576036']
Except that isn't how it happened.

A member acting on his own in a fit of stupidity spied on a FAN nation and destroyed some cash. FAN never raised the issue, FAN out and out attacked the whole alliance instead of FAN piling the offending nation while trying contact MFO to figure out if the rest of the alliance was involved.

What actually happened is completely different from your version of events.
[/quote]

AirMe, while you will always be my favorite radio host, you are a bit off base here. While you state this: [quote]A member acting on his own in a fit of stupidity spied on a FAN nation and destroyed some cash.[/quote] as if it is a fact, it can only be an assumption UNLESS you were somehow involved in or aware of the planning. Son AirMe, which is it? An assumption on your part or a fact you can prove?

[quote]FAN never raised the issue,[/quote]

We certainly did raise it. You do not have access to that section of our forums for obvious reasons but rest assured, we raised it. As for our defensive attack, as a historian of this game you know only too well, that when FAN has been attacked in the past, it has never been a little slap on the wrist. Our response was fair and just in an attempt to curtail further terrorist attacks.

Have a nice day.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Petrovich4' timestamp='1295106285' post='2576052']
You forgot two things AirMe - A [i]senior[/i] member acting on his own, [i]within an alliance[/i] . . . .

And also, it is not our prerogative to initiate diplomatic contact all the time.


Remember, we were attacked by terrorists.
[/quote]

I am just setting the boy straight. Not criticizing your policy in that one

Also, I don't buy into the terrorism line.

[AirMe]

[quote name='Princess Doomee' timestamp='1295113070' post='2576138']
AirMe, while you will always be my favorite radio host, you are a bit off base here. While you state this: as if it is a fact, it can only be an assumption UNLESS you were somehow involved in or aware of the planning. Son AirMe, which is it? An assumption on your part or a fact you can prove?



We certainly did raise it. You do not have access to that section of our forums for obvious reasons but rest assured, we raised it. As for our defensive attack, as a historian of this game you know only too well, that when FAN has been attacked in the past, it has never been a little slap on the wrist. Our response was fair and just in an attempt to curtail further terrorist attacks.

Have a nice day.
[/quote]

You didn't raise it with MFO until after you had countered the whole alliance though. Which was my point. And MFO never came out and said "pess off FAN" like the person I was rebutting claimed.

So when one of your members rushes into my channel telling me that "he is coming for me" is he acting on his own or does he represent the whole of FAN?

I understand the "An alliance is responsible for the actions of it's members' bit, however there has always been wiggle room for mistakes.

Before you ask, I can't remember who it was, it was about 2 months ago. It wasn't anyone I knew.

Again I will say that, you have a right to set your own policies just like I have the right to complain about them.

Edited January 15, 2011 by AirMe

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295113840' post='2576149']
Also, I don't buy into the terrorism line.
[/quote]

A long-standing member, independent of his alliance, spied away FAN funds. If that doesn't constitute terrorism on Planet Bob I don't know what does!

(Yeah, I don't buy into it either. )

[Petrovich4]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295113840' post='2576149']
Also, I don't buy into the terrorism line.
[/quote]

Neither do I. It's a conspiracy in my opinion

[CDPII]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1295113983' post='2576150']
So when one of your members rushes into my channel telling me that "he is coming for me" is he acting on his own or does he represent the whole of FAN?

I understand the "An alliance is responsible for the actions of it's members' bit, however there has always been wiggle room for mistakes.

Before you ask, I can't remember who it was, it was about 2 months ago. It wasn't anyone I knew.

[/quote]


This sounds like propaganda to me. If someone told me they were coming for me I would not only remember who it was but would have saved documentation of such an event.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='wickedj' timestamp='1295005962' post='2574986']
Good sir, not a single nuke was launched
[/quote]
Yeah, I posted that before I saw the peace announcement and realized FAN was just out raiding.

[quote name='Jocko Homo' timestamp='1295023118' post='2575146']
If a 1000+ day member of your alliance goes around and attacks people then you damn well better make sure everybody knows that it is unauthorized. At the very least his war slots need to be filled up by YOU.
[/quote]
No, filling war slots on former members of your alliance - so the people they've rogued on cannot organize an effective counter - is not kosher.

Frankly, STA should have declared war on Kronos when they did it.

[AirMe]

[quote name='CDPII' timestamp='1295115008' post='2576166']
This sounds like propaganda to me. If someone told me they were coming for me I would not only remember who it was but would have saved documentation of such an event.
[/quote]

After I checked the person's nation and laughed, I chalked it up to alcohol.

[Mr. Smyth]

[quote name='SyndicatedINC' timestamp='1295088222' post='2575945']
Actually Fourteen days and a few more hours in and there is an even better post of the year:
[/quote]

Thats the problem with tossing out the good quotes this early in the year. Some SotPK comes by and one up's you.

[SyndicatedINC]

[quote name='Mr. Smyth' timestamp='1295137174' post='2576440']
Thats the problem with tossing out the good quotes this early in the year. Some SotPK comes by and one up's you.
[/quote]

Such is the life of a MoFA, to be relegated to always playing second fiddle for the boss