iFOK treaty cancellation

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='Emperor Brutus' timestamp='1294946928' post='2574291']
Well that's a lie. Also NEW didn't necessarily go to war, [b]in fact later they were attacked and iFOK and PC failed to activate their Mutual Defense clauses[/b]. Although I'm sure they would have, have they not have been tied to PB where almost every alliance was tied to SF not to mention iFOK... and well, that would have benefited no one. Either way, although I would not throw NEW under the bus for their actions but rather discuss the treaty post activation and the resolution of this conflict I believe it is iFOK who has lost out on this one, they above others should know that NEW will not hesitate to step in for their friends at any point in time.

PC however did something that will probably benefit them more. They know how much NEW loves to fight and also know they would stand up for their allies and friends in almost any situation and of course that they may treat the ODP as an MDP. Now PC has the option to pick their fight at their discretion. But I will not doubt their abilities to defend a friend in the face of defeat, as we have seen in the previous year. o/
[/quote]
Stopped reading here. Seriously, the concept of non-chaining treaties is lost on people.

[Monster]

Hm, attacking a protected AA with no intentions of settling the issue diplomatically isn't going to war?

[Emperor Brutus]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' timestamp='1294948429' post='2574312']
Hm, attacking a protected AA with no intentions of settling the issue diplomatically isn't going to war?
[/quote]

Of course not. They should have announced everything together.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Emperor Brutus

[prameswara]

[quote]in fact later they were attacked and iFOK and PC failed to activate their Mutual Defense clauses[/quote]
[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1294948208' post='2574309']
Stopped reading here. Seriously, the concept of non-chaining treaties is lost on people.
[/quote]
or maybe the only lost people is you?
[quote]NEW did not enter this on behalf of any other alliance. They were declared on by Fark, INT, TPE. iFOK and PC failed to activate their Mutual Defense Clauses.[/quote]

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='prameswara' timestamp='1294981335' post='2574701']
or maybe the only lost people is you?
[/quote]
Remember the part where NEW attacked--oh, what's the use?

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='prameswara' timestamp='1294981335' post='2574701']
or maybe the only lost people is you?
[/quote]
Since when is aggression only aggression if it's on behalf of someone else?

[Micheal Malone]

[quote name='Emperor Brutus' timestamp='1294946928' post='2574291']
...
PC however did something that will probably benefit them more. They know how much NEW loves to fight and also know they would stand up for their allies and friends in almost any situation and of course that they may treat the ODP as an MDP. Now PC has the option to pick their fight at their discretion. But I will not doubt their abilities to defend a friend in the face of defeat, as we have seen in the previous year. o/
[/quote]
Except of course the fact that NEW has stated already they don't do ODP. In fact, iFOK had it listed as ODP, and NEW said "Look you are MDoAP with us or cancel it. Either way we understand, no hard feelings."

In fact, they said they don't recognize anything lower than that and have said so here on the OWF. Would you like to bash your old home any other way?

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='Emperor Brutus' timestamp='1294946928' post='2574291']
Also NEW didn't necessarily go to war, in fact later they were attacked and iFOK and PC failed to activate their Mutual Defense clauses.
[/quote]
Did you pay attention to how that war unfolded at all? here is a little fact for you NEW launched an [u]aggressive [/u]war, or is it a case that it suits your agenda to conveniently forget this fact?

[Emperor Brutus]

[quote name='Micheal Malone' timestamp='1294985757' post='2574785']
Except of course the fact that NEW has stated already they don't do ODP. In fact, iFOK had it listed as ODP, and NEW said "Look you are MDoAP with us or cancel it. Either way we understand, no hard feelings."

In fact, they said they don't recognize anything lower than that and have said so here on the OWF. Would you like to bash your old home any other way?
[/quote]

NEW and PC downgraded to an ODP. I didn't necessarily bash iFOK or PC but rather their allies who restrained them. I'm sure if it wasn't for their connection to Pandoras Box they would have activated the treaties.

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1294990892' post='2574892']
Did you pay attention to how that war unfolded at all? here is a little fact for you NEW launched an [u]aggressive [/u]war, or is it a case that it suits your agenda to conveniently forget this fact?
[/quote]

Right, lets say they did. They launched an aggressive war against DF. Then Fark, INT, TPE launched an attack on NEW. Most MDP level treaties have the similar phrase "An attack on one signatory is an attack on the other" meaning the other signatory also recognizes a war with those who attacked. Meaning after NEW was attacked PC and iFOK had the responsibility to active their treaties but failed to do so. Unlike FEAR and Europa who did.

I said they didn't activate the obligated defensive clause of the treaty. They weren't obligated to be the aggressor in this case.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Emperor Brutus

[CBray]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1294874004' post='2573507']
What are you jabbering lol. [b]NEW asked ALL of its allies to stay out[/b].

Also to address Heft's remark. We don't rank our allies. Every single one of them is equally important to us.
[/quote]


[quote name='erikz' timestamp='1294905749' post='2573920']
Another know it all, from the outside, trying to look in but failing miserably.

1. [b]NEW told all their allies to stay out[/b].
2. Before more people jumped in we (my govt and PC govt) tried to broker peace, warned people not to bandwagon, but NEW govt was unreachable the entire time. Lack of comm.

Too bad... I really like those Indo's...
[/quote]

Guess I must have missed the memo when they asked us to stay out...hate when that happens! I think I'm in need of a new secretary to pass on these vital memos, could have saved us some infra!

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='CBray' timestamp='1295102568' post='2576015']
Guess I must have missed the memo when they asked us to stay out...hate when that happens! I think I'm in need of a new secretary to pass on these vital memos, could have saved us some infra!
[/quote]

Well perhaps you didn't had very well communications with them neither. I wouldn't be surprised. Fact is, one of NEW's higher ups told us they asked all their allies to stay out. I don't really care if you don't believe me. Even if I posted logs you would most likely still not believe me. I'm not interested in a yes/no game, so I'm not going to respond to it anymore.

[Alterego]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1294945820' post='2574271']
When you are crapping on us could you please write our name correctly?
[/quote]
People have been writing BAPs for years when it should be BAPS or B.A.P.S and until my post now we never mentioned it. Be bigger than that.

edit: No

Edited January 15, 2011 by Alterego

[CBray]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1295102801' post='2576018']
Well perhaps you didn't had very well communications with them neither. I wouldn't be surprised. Fact is, one of NEW's higher ups told us they asked all their allies to stay out. I don't really care if you don't believe me. Even if I posted logs you would most likely still not believe me. I'm not interested in a yes/no game, so I'm not going to respond to it anymore.
[/quote]

I converse with NEW gov on an almost daily basis, hell I'd bet that I knew that you guys were pulling out before your general membership was aware. All these people claiming that NEW don't talk and can't be spoken with due to this language barrier either have never tried talking to them or simply don't want to try.

Perhaps you would care to tell me which of these vague 'higher ups' it was that gave the request, because had they asked us we'd still have stood by them, and they knew that.

Of course no one believes you, NEW never posted in the OWF asking you to stand out, faithful allies didn't stand to the side and watch them get kicked in the face repeatedly, your position doesn't look too good from any angle.

Edited January 15, 2011 by CBray

[Alterego]

[quote name='CBray' timestamp='1295104676' post='2576039']
All these people claiming that NEW don't talk and can't be spoken with due to this language barrier either have never tried talking to them or simply don't want to try.
[/quote]
Yet they somehow managed to sign a treaty with if0k Either if0k signed it without any communication between the alliances or they are lying now to hide their shameful actions of late

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1295104926' post='2576040']
Yet they somehow managed to sign a treaty with if0k Either if0k signed it without any communication between the alliances or they are lying now to hide their shameful actions of late
[/quote]
Haha, you know how stupid that 'argument' sounds right? The fact that we managed to sign a treaty with NEW means we keep having an equal amount of communication for our entire future together?

And I had a very good communication with a lot of NEW members during the war. It's just that my government couldn't get a hold of people that had actually something to say within the alliance. It's not that hard.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Spaarlaamp' timestamp='1295105417' post='2576043']
Haha, you know how stupid that 'argument' sounds right?
[/quote]
Enlighten me o cowardly one.

[zzzptm]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1295104926' post='2576040']
Yet they somehow managed to sign a treaty with if0k Either if0k signed it without any communication between the alliances or they are lying now to hide their shameful actions of late
[/quote]
Or maybe NEW didn't talk to iFOK.

Now I have revealed myself as partial to the iFOK side of things by spelling their acronym properly.

Also, BAPS spelled backwards is Potrzebie.

[Spaarlaamp]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1295105539' post='2576045']
Enlighten me o cowardly one.
[/quote]
Ok I'll make it easy for you. Say you go to the bakery to buy a loaf of bread at 4 pm. But a few hours later you want to go back to the bakery to ask a question about the bread, but since it's now 8 pm the bakery is closed.

So even though you had the chance to communicate with the baker about the purchase of the bread, you didn't have the chance to ask a question about it later.

Unless you're less than 2 year old even you should be able to understand it now.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='CBray' timestamp='1295104676' post='2576039']
I converse with NEW gov on an almost daily basis, hell I'd bet that I knew that you guys were pulling out before your general membership was aware. All these people claiming that NEW don't talk and can't be spoken with due to this language barrier either have never tried talking to them or simply don't want to try.[/quote]

Pulling out? We weren't even [b]in[/b]. Second, I never claimed NEW can't be spoken too due to the language barrier. Don't put words into my mouth. I do speak with NEW on a regular basis, however during and after this DF-WAR NEW just wasn't reachable. So they suddenly disappeared from the face of the planet or they were ignoring us. Cyrus already apologized for not being here and he gave a good reasons for why he wasn't. I don't blame him. I cannot answer to why the rest of NEW wasn't though.

[quote]
Perhaps you would care to tell me which of these vague 'higher ups' it was that gave the request, because had they asked us we'd still have stood by them, and they knew that.[/quote]

Oh right, now it's a 'vague' higher up. This is dumb.

[quote]Of course no one believes you, NEW never posted in the OWF asking you to stand out, faithful allies didn't stand to the side and watch them get kicked in the face repeatedly, your position doesn't look too good from any angle.
[/quote]

You sir are a brilliant debater. Because we didn't enact our ODP with them (yes, aggressive action against an alliance forfeits the defense part), no one would believe us.

I wouldn't make any comments about our effort in this while your own effort sucked as hell. I mean you already tried to get peace after a whole 2!!!!! days. You went in because you don't agree with my vision about MDP's and that is fine, but it does make you a whole lot weaker than us. We didn't went in because see MDP's only when no aggression is taken, and because if we did, we would be fighting our own allies. You went in because you see MDP's as defense pacts even if your ally declares an aggressive war. And then peaced out after 2 wars. That's pathetic.

[Kongo Jack IV]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1295110107' post='2576095']
Pulling out? We weren't even [b]in[/b]. Second, I never claimed NEW can't be spoken too due to the language barrier. Don't put words into my mouth. I do speak with NEW on a regular basis, however during and after this DF-WAR NEW just wasn't reachable. So they suddenly disappeared from the face of the planet or they were ignoring us. Cyrus already apologized for not being here and he gave a good reasons for why he wasn't. I don't blame him. I cannot answer to why the rest of NEW wasn't though.



Oh right, now it's a 'vague' higher up. This is dumb.



You sir are a brilliant debater. Because we didn't enact our ODP with them (yes, aggressive action against an alliance forfeits the defense part), no one would believe us.

I wouldn't make any comments about our effort in this while your own effort sucked as hell. I mean you already tried to get peace after a whole 2!!!!! days. You went in because you don't agree with my vision about MDP's and that is fine, but it does make you a whole lot weaker than us. We didn't went in because see MDP's only when no aggression is taken, and because if we did, we would be fighting our own allies. You went in because you see MDP's as defense pacts even if your ally declares an aggressive war. And then peaced out after 2 wars. That's pathetic.
[/quote]

So now, you say you wouldn't defend them because of their aggression, Yet before you say you wouldn't defend them because they asked you too? You really need to stick to one story. Stop being blue bellied.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Kongo Jack' timestamp='1295110873' post='2576108']
So now, you say you wouldn't defend them because of their aggression, Yet before you say you wouldn't defend them because they asked you too? You really need to stick to one story. Stop being blue bellied.
[/quote]

And the one excludes the other? No it doesn't.

[Kongo Jack IV]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1295111113' post='2576111']
And the one excludes the other? No it doesn't.
[/quote]

It's making yourself looking kind of weak and pathetic. The best think you could do is just hope people forget about it. I for one wont hold you to blue belling, the rest might not be so forgiving.

[Kilkenny]

I am sure that NEW told them to stay out of the conflict. In fact the conversation was prob quite like this:

iFok: We aren't going to activate our treaty and come into the war in your defense

NEW: Well, if you aren't going to help us then just stay out

iFok: Just stay out?? Cool, thanks


LOL

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Kongo Jack' timestamp='1295111533' post='2576118']
It's making yourself looking kind of weak and pathetic. The best think you could do is just hope people forget about it. I for one wont hold you to blue belling, the rest might not be so forgiving.
[/quote]

Not really. It's making us look weak and pathetic in your eyes. That's ok though because you are weak and pathetic in my eyes.

[Kongo Jack IV]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1295114841' post='2576165']
Not really. It's making us look weak and pathetic in your eyes. That's ok though because you are weak and pathetic in my eyes.
[/quote]

And thats okay, because I respect you opinion. The difference between you and I, I honor my treaties, now tell me how you really feel?