Charge of the FEAR brigade

[Axolotlia]

o/ FEAR

Have fun and do work!

[Barnaby von Farter]

[quote name='Steinfeld' timestamp='1292948543' post='2548400']
And of course, now, not to be disrespectful, one would ask for you to show that they actually did inquire about the protection status. (with the times of the inquiries to match up with the time of the disband notice) Also, what announcement, of MASS IMPORTANCE, makes post # 32 on a thread. especially a protection notice? just wondering.

but you must also agree, that this whole thing could have been avoided if there were a proper Protection Announcement, even if there was someone who posted two vague times(?) and just hinted, and suggested at a protection. It just seems now you are looking for wars.

yes indeed, let the good times roll
[/quote]

The intent to protect was adequately communicated within the DF topic. If it seemed like an inadequate message, acquiring clarification of intention was the responsibility of NEW. I see it as either they failed to use common sense, or they didn't care.

And since you asked so nicely:


[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95819&view=findpost&p=2542151"]International warning - 10th post BTW[/url] on evening of December 17th

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95819&view=findpost&p=2542165"]International response to NEW inquiry about previous warning[/url] on evening of December 17th

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=92144&Extended=1"]First War Declaration by NEW [/url] on evening of December 18th

edit to add: I don't have access to logs where NEW acknowledges that they recognized the intention of INT and TPE to protect DF, but it's been stated by INT/TPE gov that this conversation occurred.

The ODN is quite pleased to back our allies in this effort to reinforce this ultimatum against these shameless scavengers and expect to have (or provide) a blast in the process.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Barnaby von Farter

[Steinfeld]

[quote name='Dark Temptation' timestamp='1292949216' post='2548406']
Here you go again, arguing the same damn point. You asked where the protection announcement was, and you were pointed to posts in that thread. Regardless of that fact, you seem to be missing the bigger picture; you think NEW can deface the corpse of a prestigious black team alliance, which has decided to disband peacefully, and no one will notice or care? Whether it's got the 'official' stamp or not, if you believe there's a chance in hell of NEW getting away with something like that, you're sorely mistaken.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by 'official'... Their allies saying, "it's not in your best interest to raid them" is CN diplomatic talk for: "raid them and I punch you in the @#%^ing face", which as about as 'official' as it gets around here.

The fact of the matter is, NEW called DF's allies bluff, and got a face-full of Cruise Missles. It's as simple as that. Please move on and argue something else.
[/quote]


Damn right im arguing the same damn point. It doesnt matter if the alliance was illustrious or not, once those nations become unprotected, they become fair game. NEW took advantage of that, and that is their right. A protection notice, 31 posts after the fact become a problem when half the alliance is already being raided isnt it. NEW said they would drop it, however TPE wanted to push it further. NEW was going to respect the wishes of the protection announcement (however !@#$%* is was). It is not NEWs fault that the protectors were late in getting the notice out, once they were asked to stop, they did.

How do you expect to protect someone if you dont tell anyone? There was a space of time where there was no announcement at all, leaving Dark Fist FAIR GAME.

Another point. Since when does a TRIUM (one of three) hold power for all of an alliance? Without a vote or anything, without a signing of the other two Triums? just wondering that too.

But i Degress, enmasse, This is not the point of the war, just one way that it could have been avoided.

Now the point of the war, from what i see, and indeed correct me if i am wrong, would be the reps that are not being paid...

Edited December 21, 2010 by Steinfeld

[Steinfeld]

[quote name='Barnaby von Farter' timestamp='1292950165' post='2548422']
The intent to protect was adequately communicated within the DF topic. If it seemed like an inadequate message, acquiring clarification of intention was the responsibility of NEW. I see it as either they failed to use common sense, or they didn't care.

And since you asked so nicely:


[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95819&view=findpost&p=2542151"]International warning - 10th post BTW[/url] on evening of December 17th

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95819&view=findpost&p=2542165"]International response to NEW inquiry about previous warning[/url] on evening of December 17th

[url="http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=92144&Extended=1"]First War Declaration by NEW [/url] on evening of December 18th

edit to add: I don't have access to logs where NEW acknowledges that they recognized the intention of INT and TPE to protect DF, but it's been stated by INT/TPE gov that this conversation occurred.

The ODN is quite pleased to back our allies in this effort to reinforce this ultimatum against these shameless scavengers and expect to have (or provide) a blast in the process.
[/quote]


Why Thank you for the linkage.

But you do realize there is a gap inbetween the Forums times, and In Game time right? about an hour or two?

[Curly Mullet]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1292910440' post='2547702']

I imagine your military performance will be of the same brand of mediocrity, and I can only hope you learn a few lessons from ODN's polished machine.
[/quote]

I loled. ODNs polished machine= "Lets attack an alliance 1/3 third our size, and hope nobody notices how tough we arnt."

Oh well, we gave them a bloody nose in Karma, we'll do it again.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Curly Mullet

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Steinfeld' timestamp='1292950251' post='2548423']
Damn right im arguing the same damn point. It doesnt matter if the alliance was illustrious or not, once those nations become unprotected, they become fair game. NEW took advantage of that, and that is their right. A protection notice, 31 posts after the fact become a problem when half the alliance is already being raided isnt it. NEW said they would drop it, however TPE wanted to push it further. NEW was going to respect the wishes of the protection announcement (however !@#$%* is was). It is not NEWs fault that the protectors were late in getting the notice out, once they were asked to stop, they did.

How do you expect to protect someone if you dont tell anyone? There was a space of time where there was no announcement at all, leaving Dark Fist FAIR GAME.

Another point. Since when does a TRIUM (one of three) hold power for all of an alliance? Without a vote or anything, without a signing of the other two Triums? just wondering that too.

But i Degress, enmasse, This is not the point of the war, just one way that it could have been avoided.

Now the point of the war, from what i see, and indeed correct me if i am wrong, would be the reps that are not being paid...
[/quote]

Initial disbandment announcement 12:32 AM, International announces protection at 12:38 AM that isn't to late since the original announcement. The protection announcement which NEW questioned in that thread and was even replied to on that same page, I think that makes your argument null and void right?

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=95819&view=findpost&p=2542151"]Protection Notice by International [/url]

[SpacingOutMan]

[quote name='Steinfeld' timestamp='1292950251' post='2548423']
Damn right im arguing the same damn point.[/quote]

And I'm surprised your IQ hasn't dropped into the negatives yet.

[quote]It doesnt matter if the alliance was illustrious or not, once those nations become unprotected, they become fair game. NEW took advantage of that, and that is their right.[/quote]

Except, they didn't become unprotected. The International said they were still protected. Herp derp, you're still in the wrong. It's called "reading".

[quote]A protection notice, 31 posts after the fact become a problem when half the alliance is already being raided isnt it.[/quote]

Oh, so you admit there was a protection notice now? Good for you, want a biscuit?

[quote]NEW said they would drop it, however TPE wanted to push it further. NEW was going to respect the wishes of the protection announcement (however !@#$%* is was). It is not NEWs fault that the protectors were late in getting the notice out, once they were asked to stop, they did.[/quote]

Um, NEW was never willing to drop it from what I'm aware. Correction, they would drop it as long as everyone else just dropped it as well. When an alliance says they're protecting someone, and someone attacks that "someone", sorry, there are consequences. Cry more, because NEW $%&@ed up.

[quote]How do you expect to protect someone if you dont tell anyone? There was a space of time where there was no announcement at all, leaving Dark Fist FAIR GAME.[/quote]

You just wrote above that there was a protection notice. Do you even read the !@#$ you write?

[quote]Another point. Since when does a TRIUM (one of three) hold power for all of an alliance? Without a vote or anything, without a signing of the other two Triums? just wondering that too.[/quote]

Try reading their charter, you might learn something.

[quote]Now the point of the war, from what i see, and indeed correct me if i am wrong, would be the reps that are not being paid...
[/quote]

Or, ya know, NEW did a big "no-no" and got called out for it. Yea, I think that's it.

[Barnaby von Farter]

[quote name='Curly Mullet' timestamp='1292950959' post='2548428']
I loled. ODNs polished machine= "Lets attack an alliance 1/3 third our size, and hope nobody notices how tough we arnt."

Oh well, we gave them a bloody nose in Karma, we'll do it again.
[/quote]

Well, we broke your legs in Karma and we'll do it again, etc.

[AvengingAngel256]

[quote name='Steinfeld' timestamp='1292950251' post='2548423']
Damn right im arguing the same damn point. It doesnt matter if the alliance was illustrious or not, once those nations become unprotected, they become fair game. NEW took advantage of that, and that is their right. A protection notice, 31 posts after the fact become a problem when half the alliance is already being raided isnt it. NEW said they would drop it, however TPE wanted to push it further. NEW was going to respect the wishes of the protection announcement (however !@#$%* is was). It is not NEWs fault that the protectors were late in getting the notice out, once they were asked to stop, they did.
[/quote]
The Protection notices in the Thread as well as the responses to the inquiries about protection were before the raids occurred.

[Tromp]

[quote name='AirMe' timestamp='1292941052' post='2548314']
http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/FEAR

Looks like they have a few. Have at it boys.

I won't jump on FEAR for honoring their treaty. However, in my useless opinion, you are allowing NEW to get away with reckless behavior.
[/quote]
I feel so sad I can't order such a thing right now.

[Finnish Commie]

[quote name='Steinfeld' timestamp='1292950914' post='2548427']
Why Thank you for the linkage.

But you do realize there is a gap inbetween the Forums times, and In Game time right? about an hour or two?
[/quote]
Even TPE got to announcing their protection (which was quite clear cut: Attack them and we ZI you) 8 hours before the first NEW raid on DF AA began.

[Turetel]

[quote name='Barnaby von Farter' timestamp='1292951375' post='2548432']
Well, we broke your legs in Karma and we'll do it again, etc.
[/quote]

I loled, horrible of me to do so at myself, isn't it

[LittleRena]

Onwards International, may you prosper.

[Barnaby von Farter]

[quote name='Turetel' timestamp='1292952499' post='2548452']
I loled, horrible of me to do so at myself, isn't it
[/quote]

Yes, quite horrible.

[shadeslayers09]

[quote name='fluffyewunga' timestamp='1292926972' post='2548187']
It's seems FEAR is doomed to repeat it's mistake over and over and over. Some day your leaders will wake up and learn the different between oA and MD
[/quote]

you are just really really stupid, they came in on the MD part you fricking moron. maybe someday you will grow some knowledge

[quote name='Canik' timestamp='1292931119' post='2548212']
What is stupid is so many people sitting on their infra. Boring. I understand NEW broke the status quo, and that's fine by me. Who's the real rebels now eh, LSF?

We made a conscious decision, as we have many times before, to fight despite the odds. Because we respect NEW, they've done the same for us, they are funner and balliser than most of you, and I'm glad we are fighting alongside them. I would not be happy sitting on the sidelines watching NEW being abused & ditched by all their allies.
[/quote]

Canik, I love you even more now <3

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1292938118' post='2548282']
Right lol, so you are supporting NEW in their agressive war.

I guess it's good to know where FEAR stands on the protectorate issue. It's now free game to attack FEAR protectorates, if they have any.
[/quote]

NEW was attacked back, thus activating their MD clause of their treaty.

All in all, it is astounding how many stupid people play the game. People need to get smarter before they say anything. FEAR came in on the MD clause, they did what is right and you guys are complaining about them honoring their treaty? You guys are dispicable. You guys are bashing in PC and iFok, for not honoring their treaty with NEW, yet you bash in someone that is? Poor show planet bob, poor show.

FEAR, I wish you luck. This war for you will be a hard one, but I have no doubt you'll be ok.

[Tromp]

[quote name='shadeslayers09' timestamp='1292953588' post='2548477']
NEW was attacked back, thus activating their MD clause of their treaty.
[/quote]
No, NEW decided to ignore the issued protectorates and thus attacked not just DF (the protectorate) but also the protectors (TPE/INT/FARK).
But I doubt it'll get into your thick skull judging from your other posts.
[quote]
All in all, it is astounding how many stupid people play the game. People need to get smarter before they say anything. FEAR came in on the MD clause, they did what is right and you guys are complaining about them honoring their treaty? You guys are dispicable. You guys are bashing in PC and iFok, for not honoring their treaty with NEW, yet you bash in someone that is? Poor show planet bob, poor show.

FEAR, I wish you luck. This war for you will be a hard one, but I have no doubt you'll be ok.
[/quote]
All I am saying is, FEAR shouldn't complain the moment someone attacks their protectorate. They are setting the precedent that those are worth jack.

Also, you must love looking into that mirror of yours. Although I doubt you realize it was a mirror, you probably thought it was a window.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='shadeslayers09' timestamp='1292953588' post='2548477']
you are just really really stupid, [color=#5D5D5D][font=tahoma, arial, verdana, sans-serif][size=2] they came in on the MD part[/size][/font][/color] you fricking moron. maybe someday you will grow some knowledge


NEW was attacked back, thus activating their MD clause of their treaty.

[/quote]


Actually you should look at your own post before calling someone else a moron

NEW attacked a protectorate, thereby as the aggressive party anyone coming in to support them will be activating the oA clause. Thats how treaties have always worked.

Edited December 21, 2010 by Sir Keshav IV

[Barnaby von Farter]

[quote name='shadeslayers09' timestamp='1292953588' post='2548477']
you are just really really stupid, they came in on the MD part you fricking moron. maybe someday you will grow some knowledge

<snip>
[/quote]

With a diplomacy skill set like this, Shadeslayer, I'm sure you'll have no trouble navigating the University of Unity to great heights. In all seriousness, I wouldn't be surprised if those who voted for you are feeling a bit of buyers remorse right about now though, even if they're too worried to say it. Pretty embarrassing, really.


/me waters self in attempt to grow knowledge berries and such.

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Barnaby von Farter' timestamp='1292954386' post='2548495']
/me waters self in attempt to grow knowledge berries and such.
[/quote]

I got some I can sell you, they grow next to my dingleberries.

[Pomiel]

I like you honoring your treaties.

Good luck

[CBray]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1292953862' post='2548482']
All I am saying is, FEAR shouldn't complain the moment someone attacks their protectorate. They are setting the precedent that those are worth jack.
[/quote]

How have you come to this conclusion? We're defending one of our oldest and closest allied comfortable in the knowledge that in all likelihood it will result in yet another curb stomp. At no point have we attacked this 'protectorate' (which since the alliance doesn't exist is in no means comparable to the protectorates that we hold) and at no point have we condoned the action. All we are doing is standing shoulder to shoulder with our friends and allies. You should probably take some notes on how real allies act.

[Barnaby von Farter]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1292954935' post='2548503']
I got some I can sell you, they grow next to my dingleberries.
[/quote]

I'll pass on that. However, I'd like to introduce you to someone who can teach you to wipe properly.

[img]http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1420/1466095766_74df2ac497.jpg[/img]

[Tromp]

[quote name='CBray' timestamp='1292955405' post='2548510']
How have you come to this conclusion? We're defending one of our oldest and closest allied comfortable in the knowledge that in all likelihood it will result in yet another curb stomp. At no point have we attacked this 'protectorate' (which since the alliance doesn't exist is in no means comparable to the protectorates that we hold) and at no point have we condoned the action. All we are doing is standing shoulder to shoulder with our friends and allies. You should probably take some notes on how real allies act.
[/quote]
I have explained how I see it in various threads, but ok then.

First of all, don't try to portray yourself as a victim here. It is clear that NEW launched an agressive war on DF, which was protected by their treatypartners (declarations of protection were given in the relevant thread). This leads to the conclusion that FEAR [b]cannot[/b] claim to activate the Defense clause of their treaty, when they want to support NEW in their wareffort against the protectors of DF.
Second, yes, you are condoning that very action by supporting NEW in this matter. How can you claim otherwise? NEW even inquired as to the nature of said protection offered by INT et al., so you simply can't say they weren't aware of the consequences it would have should they attack DF.
FEAR either gladly ignores all these facts or agrees with NEW's position in this conflict.

It really is that simple.

(Also, lovely ad hominem there. Unfortunately for you, I have nothing to prove. I did my part in the past. Multiple times.)

[CBray]

[quote name='Tromp' timestamp='1292955865' post='2548517']
I have explained how I see it in various threads, but ok then.

First of all, don't try to portray yourself as a victim here. It is clear that NEW launched an agressive war on DF, which was protected by their treatypartners (declarations of protection were given in the relevant thread). This leads to the conclusion that FEAR [b]cannot[/b] claim to activate the Defense clause of their treaty, when they want to support NEW in their wareffort against the protectors of DF.
Second, yes, you are condoning that very action by supporting NEW in this matter. How can you claim otherwise? NEW even inquired as to the nature of said protection offered by INT et al., so you simply can't say they weren't aware of the consequences it would have should they attack DF.
FEAR either gladly ignores all these facts or agrees with NEW's position in this conflict.

It really is that simple.

(Also, lovely ad hominem there. Unfortunately for you, I have nothing to prove. I did my part in the past. Multiple times.)
[/quote]

We're the victims? When did this happen? It may be clear to you, but then you're looking through very bias eyes, as are most people. Hence why in general FEAR stays off the OWF, people clamour to change peoples opinions and it always ends up bad. Think what you think, act how you see fit to act, and we in turn will act according to how we feel is best to act.

And if you think aiding an ally outnumbered by FARK (I mean really TPE and Int wouldn't be in this if it wasn't for FARK) 4x in NS and with almost double the nations is somehow empowering NEW to do things to DF (the now non existent former alliance that FARK did not swear to protect) with a broom handle that only a psycho would think up as portrayed then you are mislead.

[img]http://ihasahotdog.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/funny-dog-pictures-i-said-good-day-sir.jpeg?w=500&h=375[/img]

[Tromp]

[quote name='CBray' timestamp='1292956443' post='2548524']
We're the victims? When did this happen? It may be clear to you, but then you're looking through very bias eyes, as are most people. Hence why in general FEAR stays off the OWF, people clamour to change peoples opinions and it always ends up bad. Think what you think, act how you see fit to act, and we in turn will act according to how we feel is best to act.
[/quote]
I never said you were victims, try again.
[quote]
And if you think aiding an ally outnumbered by FARK (I mean really TPE and Int wouldn't be in this if it wasn't for FARK) 4x in NS and with almost double the nations is somehow empowering NEW to do things to DF (the now non existent former alliance that FARK did not swear to protect) with a broom handle that only a psycho would think up as portrayed then you are mislead.
[/quote]
Well now, this would be all good if it weren't for the fact that [b]you aren't attacking a single FARK nation[/b].
Sorry brother, but you look like a scared peon to me. How brave to attack just INT and TPE, but leave FARK out of the picture...