An Announcement from The Sweet Oblivion

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1291877393' post='2534721']
My apologies if I have better things to do than to keep up with your new incarnation every 4 months.
[/quote]

What was that you were saying about moving on?

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Kalasin' timestamp='1291877722' post='2534724']
What was that you were saying about moving on?
[/quote]

That would be implying I hold anything against you, which I don't.

[Kalasin]

[quote name='Lusitan' timestamp='1291878090' post='2534726']
That would be implying I hold anything against you, which I don't.
[/quote]

A claim which is slightly undermined by your tone of derision upon Banksy's revelation of my former identity.

[Laserwolf]

Respectable move Athens. Good show.

[Dave93]

Good move Athens

perhaps you two(Kalasin and Lusitan) could get back on topic?

[Jgoods45]

Nice to see. Best wishes moving forward, TSO.

[wickedj]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1291867160' post='2534550']
This is a very nice move.


Omniscient1: So much cleverness that it takes a new alliance every week to hold it all.
[/quote]
Why you so mad lately, Schatt? Is it WANA being in CoJ..he's enough to drive anyone mad

[mdnss69]

Hang on a sec. Athens and CnG demand 55,000 tech in reparations after the war, and pretty much drive TSO into the ground. When it becomes apparent that TSO don't have the manpower or finance to pay up Athens cancels the remaining reps in a PR stunt. Better still, eight months later people congratulate them for being lenient?!?

Am I missing something here? What about the rest of CnG reps from TSO? Did all the tech go to Athens, or is there most still to be collected?

[shahenshah]

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1291885380' post='2534768']
Hang on a sec. Athens and CnG demand 55,000 tech in reparations after the war, and pretty much drive TSO into the ground. When it becomes apparent that TSO don't have the manpower or finance to pay up Athens cancels the remaining reps in a PR stunt. Better still, eight months later people congratulate them for being lenient?!?

Am I missing something here? What about the rest of CnG reps from TSO? Did all the tech go to Athens, or is there most still to be collected?
[/quote]

You have a point but it is still better than nothing, tho to have further discourse on your point, you must find out how much % was paid and was let gone and we can have a better perspective on it.

Anyway, Classy move Athens.

[Anakey]

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1291885380' post='2534768']
Hang on a sec. Athens and CnG demand 55,000 tech in reparations after the war, and pretty much drive TSO into the ground. When it becomes apparent that TSO don't have the manpower or finance to pay up Athens cancels the remaining reps in a PR stunt. Better still, eight months later people congratulate them for being lenient?!?

Am I missing something here? What about the rest of CnG reps from TSO? Did all the tech go to Athens, or is there most still to be collected?
[/quote]

TSO had 55k tech as reps, the breakdown of this tech was as follows, 40k were to go to Athens, 5k to Open Source Alliance, 5k to Genesis, and 5k to Ronin.

We had already managed to pay about 24k of the reps to athens by the time they decided to waiver the rest of the amount, the reps to Ronin were also waivered some time ago, Genesis has all being paid off leaving only OSA left, over half of which has been paid and hopefully the other half will be paid shortly.

Although at the end of the war we still had 45 or so nations however due to many circumstances that number has sadly dropped to just 20 and out of those a good few are severely inactive. But TSO will rebuild now that the weight of the rep has mostly been lifted from its shoulders a new year is coming and a new year for TSO.

Big thankyou to Athens for doing this for us

Edited December 9, 2010 by Anakey

[KingEd]

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1291885380' post='2534768']
Hang on a sec. Athens and CnG demand 55,000 tech in reparations after the war, and pretty much drive TSO into the ground. When it becomes apparent that TSO don't have the manpower or finance to pay up Athens cancels the remaining reps in a PR stunt. Better still, eight months later people congratulate them for being lenient?!?

Am I missing something here? What about the rest of CnG reps from TSO? Did all the tech go to Athens, or is there most still to be collected?
[/quote]

Wow, nice way to take a stab at someone; however, in this instance you fail. As Anakey confirms above, Athens waived around 16k tech in reps. And while it's obvious that TSO currently lacks the ability to pay these off in a timely manner, Athens could have kept taking in the reps at whatever pace they were being delivered to them, but they didn't and that's why it's more than a nice gesture. TSO can now focus on whatever reps they owe to OSA, and focus on their internal growth once again.

Edited December 9, 2010 by KingEd

[Alterego]

Its just a PR stunt.

[Power]

[quote name='Anakey' timestamp='1291887924' post='2534775']
TSO had 55k tech as reps, the breakdown of this tech was as follows, 40k were to go to Athens, 5k to Open Source Alliance, 5k to Genesis, and 5k to Ronin.

We had already managed to pay about 24k of the reps to athens by the time they decided to waiver the rest of the amount, the reps to Ronin were also waivered some time ago, Genesis has all being paid off leaving only OSA left, over half of which has been paid and hopefully the other half will be paid shortly.

Although at the end of the war we still had 45 or so nations however due to many circumstances that number has sadly dropped to just 20 and out of those a good few are severely inactive. But TSO will rebuild now that the weight of the rep has mostly been lifted from its shoulders a new year is coming and a new year for TSO.

Big thankyou to Athens for doing this for us
[/quote]


To add to this I would have to also say that at least 75% of the tech sent out was direct tech. Not that it had to be direct, but sellers are hard to find and we wanted to full fill our obligation.

[mdnss69]

For TSO, it's a great thing that Athens have let up their demands so they can get back on their feet again. Don't get me wrong there. I'm also sure it's also great for the officials of Athens egos watching themselves get buried under a mountain of mindless hails. What did Athens think would happen to an alliance broken after a war and then burdened with crippling reparations? 45 members after the most destructive war and each nation is billed for 1.2k tech? The indemnity demanded originally was too high. In eight months and with slipping members TSO managed to pay under 60% of the reparations demanded from them. Kudos to them for that. Kudos to Power, and Anakey, the OP and any other TSO member for sticking to their alliance under such a burden. Shame on Athens for letting this farce run on for so long.

TSO should have been left to focus on internal growth 5 months ago Ed. I would have even added my own fanfare then.

[GearHead]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1291897091' post='2534806']
Its just a PR stunt.
[/quote]

Unless you're talking about on behalf of TSO, you're completely wrong. Actually, you'd be wrong in both instances.

If it were an Athens PR stunt, why is TSO announcing it? They didn't have to announce their gratefulness. And if you sincerely believe Athens "forced" TSO to announce this, then you're sadly mistaken, and I encourage you to ask TSO for yourself before you actually make assumptions.

[mdnss69]

Of course TSO are announcing it GH. Of course they are happy about this. They have just put a large part of the last year behind them and begin to move forward. Athens, after eight months and 24k tech later of stomping all over TSO say "Kai, we're all cool now so go on your own way". Then they are then hailed as heroes of mercy and leniency. That's hypocrisy.

[Alterego]

[quote name='GearHead' timestamp='1291898013' post='2534811']
Unless you're talking about on behalf of TSO, you're completely wrong. Actually, you'd be wrong in both instances.

If it were an Athens PR stunt, why is TSO announcing it? They didn't have to announce their gratefulness. And if you sincerely believe Athens "forced" TSO to announce this, then you're sadly mistaken, and I encourage you to ask TSO for yourself before you actually make assumptions.
[/quote]
Of course TSO are grateful they got some of their reps waived. Im sure thats why they announced it. Thats the who not the why. The why was a cynical attempt to grab a little good PR after a steady flow of shakedown money for much of the last two years outside of wartime.

[Voytek]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1291899191' post='2534818']
Of course TSO are grateful they got some of their reps waived. Im sure thats why they announced it. Thats the who not the why. The why was a cynical attempt to grab a little good PR after a steady flow of shakedown money for much of the last two years outside of wartime.
[/quote]
In whose eyes are they trying to look good? What audience are they playing to?

[GearHead]

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1291899023' post='2534817']
Of course TSO are announcing it GH. Of course they are happy about this. They have just put a large part of the last year behind them and begin to move forward. Athens, after eight months and 24k tech later of stomping all over TSO say "Kai, we're all cool now so go on your own way". Then they are then hailed as heroes of mercy and leniency. That's hypocrisy.
[/quote]

Well, according to Bob's culture today, the winner of a war gets to decide whether or not they want to impose reparations, and if so: how much. Obviously their decision there can be put under scrutiny, and reps of a large amount can be criticized heavily. But that time for criticizing was in March, April, and perhaps even May. Not December.
Not only is my point that the reps instilled were so long ago, but also that it's over now. The reps are lifted, TSO is free. Even if you don't think it was soon enough, I refer you to this saying: "Better late than never."


[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1291899191' post='2534818']
Of course TSO are grateful they got some of their reps waived. Im sure thats why they announced it. Thats the who not the why. The why was a cynical attempt to grab a little good PR after a steady flow of shakedown money for much of the last two years outside of wartime.
[/quote]

Ah, so you're implying this is a TSO PR stunt. Well then, I'll once again tell you you're wrong. I'm confident TSO were and are genuinely grateful for this gesture made by Athens, and made this announcement in good will as a small gesture of thanks rather than as a PR stunt. Perhaps if you were in their position, you'd understand.

[mdnss69]

[quote name='GearHead' timestamp='1291900628' post='2534833']
Well, according to Bob's culture today, the winner of a war gets to decide whether or not they want to impose reparations, and if so: how much. Obviously their decision there can be put under scrutiny, and reps of a large amount can be criticized heavily. But that time for criticizing was in March, April, and perhaps even May. Not December.
Not only is my point that the reps instilled were so long ago, but also that it's over now. The reps are lifted, TSO is free. Even if you don't think it was soon enough, I refer you to this saying: "Better late than never."
[/quote]

Indeed they do get to decide, but that does not mean its either moral or that I'm going to like it. Wind back a few months and I was criticising them in the post-war world. Why can't I do so in December? TSO held out until then, and Athens absorbed tech until then so the subject is both valid and to date. In fact, it is even more relevant since it did last so long.

They're not free yet, they still have about 2.5k tech left to someone from what one of them said above.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1291899439' post='2534820']
In whose eyes are they trying to look good? What audience are they playing to?
[/quote]
We will know when they replace the former MK treaty with new treaties.

[quote name='GearHead' timestamp='1291900628' post='2534833']
Ah, so you're implying this is a TSO PR stunt. Well then, I'll once again tell you you're wrong. I'm confident TSO were and are genuinely grateful for this gesture made by Athens, and made this announcement in good will as a small gesture of thanks rather than as a PR stunt. Perhaps if you were in their position, you'd understand.
[/quote]
[b]A-t-h-e-n-s[/b], you need it spelled out for you. The "gesture" of writing off some reps after spending most of the last two years gobbling up reps is the PR attempt not the announcement. Unfortunately they cant erase the last 2 years with a single gesture.

[themadstork]

I don't think anyone from TSO ever thought that we were being unfairly held down. Even as our membership base dwindled the people who were active were always trying to get as many slots as possible together so we could get our debt paid down, the only issues we ever had regarding paying the reps were from some of our own nations that seemingly refused to send out reps. (I wont name any names)

My standing on this and I trully believe that of my alliance is we went to war, lost the war, agreed to a certain amount of reps, end of story. Fortunately the people we owed the reps too did see our membership base dropping and never forced the issue as we passed our reps due dates.

[GearHead]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1291904353' post='2534856']
[b]A-t-h-e-n-s[/b], you need it spelled out for you. The "gesture" of writing off some reps after spending most of the last two years gobbling up reps is the PR attempt not the announcement. Unfortunately they cant erase the last 2 years with a single gesture.
[/quote]

Ah, thanks for spelling it out. Your first post was indeed rather vague.

No, I don't think it was done as a PR stunt on Athens' part either. This is in light of the fact TSO did this voluntarily and not out of being forced or even asked, for that matter.

That said, what's done is done. I'm excited that my friends at TSO can move on and tip my hat to Athens once again for their gracious approach to this situation.

...and GearHead exits the thread.

[Gopherbashi]

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1291899023' post='2534817']
Of course TSO are announcing it GH. Of course they are happy about this. They have just put a large part of the last year behind them and begin to move forward. Athens, after eight months and 24k tech later of stomping all over TSO say "Kai, we're all cool now so go on your own way". Then they are then hailed as heroes of mercy and leniency. That's hypocrisy.
[/quote]
You know, you try too hard sometimes.

[Fyfe XIV]

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1291897958' post='2534810']
I'm also sure it's also great for the officials of Athens egos watching themselves get buried under a mountain of mindless hails.
[/quote]
You're right, we just all get off on public attention

[quote name='mdnss69' timestamp='1291897958' post='2534810']
What did Athens think would happen to an alliance broken after a war and then burdened with crippling reparations?
[/quote]
Not that I'm justifying anything right here (and really, I'm just pointing out something I noticed), but you could change 1 word in the sentence and actually describe what happened too... [i]Athens... surprise![/i] That being said, I sincerely wish TSO luck in getting back on their feet.

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1291904353' post='2534856']
[b]A-t-h-e-n-s[/b], you need it spelled out for you. The "gesture" of writing off some reps after spending most of the last two years gobbling up reps is the PR attempt not the announcement.
[/quote]
Let me get this straight, Athens waives TSO's reps without the intention of an announcement even being made and it's some cheap shot at PR? You are actually trying too hard.



Edit: Dammit Gopher stealing my line... even though we're talking about different people

Edited December 9, 2010 by Fyfe XIV