Ambition

[Banksy]

[quote name='DictatatorDan' timestamp='1291078741' post='2526124']
[color="#FF0000"]Look at the largest alliance, and then tell me they are any more entertaining than the micro-AA's.[/color]
[/quote]
Look at my post, and tell me where I said MHA were.

[Rebounder]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1291080859' post='2526151']
Look at my post, and tell me where I said MHA were.
[/quote]

You implied that larger alliances would generate more drama, to which he provided a prime counterexample. Poor show.

Anyway, small alliances certainly have their roles, just look at how some of the greatest wars have started in the past. I'm not sure how, but a small alliance can still get under the skin of a large one. In fact, I recall NPO having to shut down at least one or two small alliances because they were plotting the Order's downfall.

[Banksy]

[quote name='Rebounder' timestamp='1291084259' post='2526210']
You implied that larger alliances would generate more drama, to which he provided a prime counterexample. Poor show.

Anyway, small alliances certainly have their roles, just look at how some of the greatest wars have started in the past. I'm not sure how, but a small alliance can still get under the skin of a large one. In fact, I recall NPO having to shut down at least one or two small alliances because they were plotting the Order's downfall.
[/quote]
Oh look, a white knight. The post I was replying to said that micros were incapable of starting (lasting) entertaining !@#$. I offered a solution, to make larger alliances to extend the entertainment. DictatorDave created a strawman, and you stumbled over it. The implication is your own.

[R3nowned]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1291076500' post='2526100']
Solution: get rid of micros and create larger, more entertaining alliances.
[/quote]
Question: Where do large alliances come from?

What you're suggesting would see the final death of CN, since no more alliances would be created. With the treaty web like it is, no alliance would make a move. Right now, only micros can move around politically without much reaction from the web.

Perhaps join a micro and see the different political dynamics that it possesses.

[WorldConqueror]

[quote name='Rebounder' timestamp='1291065812' post='2526011']
Yes, the game* is about politics, but what is the goal of politics except to obtain power?
[/quote]
Power is a means to an end, not an end in itself. At least, it should be. People seem to have forgotten that, and thus work to gain power for years only to reach the top and say 'what now?'. It is alliances like these that have no vision, that should have no place in the world.

[Jay Z]

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1291084604' post='2526214']
Oh look, a white knight. The post I was replying to said that micros were incapable of starting (lasting) entertaining !@#$. I offered a solution, to make larger alliances to extend the entertainment. DictatorDave created a strawman, and you stumbled over it. The implication is your own.
[/quote]

Oh look, a wrong knight. The [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Karma_war]History[/url] of [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Bipolar_War]Bob[/url] is not on your side here. When you look at every war it was started because at least 1 micro (depending on your definition of micro alliance, but all were outside the top 40 alliances). The main examples being Ordo Verde in the Karma war, and \m/ in the BiPolar war.

In fact between Karma and the [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/GOONS-GCU_War]last[/url] war there are 34 wars. 100% of which the initial declaration was by or on a "micro" alliance.


Edit: Glossed over "to extend" in banksys post, making my post irrelevant.

Edited December 1, 2010 by Jay Z

[Centurius]

[quote name='Jay Z' timestamp='1291146916' post='2526665']
Oh look, a wrong knight. The [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Karma_war]History[/url] of [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Bipolar_War]Bob[/url] is not on your side here. When you look at every war it was started because at least 1 micro (depending on your definition of micro alliance, but all were outside the top 40 alliances). The main examples being Ordo Verde in the Karma war, and \m/ in the BiPolar war.

In fact between Karma and the [url=http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/GOONS-GCU_War]last[/url] war there are 34 wars. 100% of which the initial declaration was by or on a "micro" alliance.
[/quote]

And those wars didn't become big because of ties to a much larger alliance? Add to that in both cases a larger alliance was the initial aggressor(NPO&TORN and NpO respectively)

[The Pansy]

People play this game for their own reasons, Olympus has always set its aim to be a loyal and giving alliance to our allies and members.
Our people are not the type to go start wars for no reason, but we wont back down from one either.
A few of my members are happier sending out 6 aid packages to other alliance members/allies than to war, where as I personally just want to wreck my nation again in pursuit of the top 5 casualty list.
Anyway it goes, an alliance isn't down to the will of the individual, but the need of the collective, my collective seem happy enough in this peace times.
I myself have been part of a global hegemony, and I have been burnt to zi a few times too, a new generation needs to take up the reigns and start some interest, because us old farts are just happy we can sleep at night.

[Jay Z]

[quote name='Centurius' timestamp='1291224000' post='2527327']
And those wars didn't become big because of ties to a much larger alliance? Add to that in both cases a larger alliance was the initial aggressor(NPO&TORN and NpO respectively)
[/quote]

I read it as Banksy implying that small alliances were useless, an error on my part.

[NoFish]

More alliances mean a bigger treaty web. A bigger treaty web means conflicts are more likely to be solved with diplomacy.

You know what else means more conflicts getting solved with diplomacy? All you useless ****ers who keep on yelling about people's CB's not being good enough, or that people need to try to be more diplomatic before they attack someone. People who go off about "veiled threats" and "bully alliances." You know who you are. Shut the hell up. If you're upset with the alliances on top, keep it to yourselves, and your friends and their friends and all of you seethe quietly until you've got a coalition strong enough and angry enough to do something about it.

I mean, you'll still lose, of course, because almost all of your core alliances are ****ing terrible. But, hey, that's your problem.

[Emperor Whimsical]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1291263519' post='2527748']
More alliances mean a bigger treaty web. A bigger treaty web means conflicts are more likely to be solved with diplomacy.

You know what else means more conflicts getting solved with diplomacy? All you useless ****ers who keep on yelling about people's CB's not being good enough, or that people need to try to be more diplomatic before they attack someone. People who go off about "veiled threats" and "bully alliances." You know who you are. Shut the hell up. If you're upset with the alliances on top, keep it to yourselves, and your friends and their friends and all of you seethe quietly until you've got a coalition strong enough and angry enough to do something about it.

I mean, you'll still lose, of course, because almost all of your core alliances are ****ing terrible. But, hey, that's your problem.
[/quote]

Karma'a secret weapon: NPO angst

[Archon]

Seriously, dude. You just made me agree with Fernando.

WITH. FERNANDO.

SERIOUSLY.

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='R3nowned' timestamp='1291087478' post='2526245']
Right now, only micros can move around politically without much reaction from the web.
[/quote]
But don't we want a reaction from the web? If everyone moved around willy-nilly without consequence or lasting effect, what would be the point of signing treaties at all? Sure we'd have defensive measures in time of war, but politics are a huge part of this world. I'm certainly not completely against micro alliances (just most of them), but you certainly cannot make the claim that they benefit the game due to the fact that when they do something, no one cares or notices.

Edited December 2, 2010 by Captain Flinders

[Locke]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1291294331' post='2527973']
but you certainly cannot make the claim that they benefit the game due to the fact that when they do something, no one cares or notices.
[/quote]
This isn't always the case. Sometimes people care and notice very much. I think what he meant was that micros feel freedom to do things other alliances don't, which may in turn lead to something bigger.

[BloodFury]

[quote name='TheNeverender' timestamp='1291265074' post='2527768']
Seriously, dude. You just made me agree with Fernando.

WITH. FERNANDO.

SERIOUSLY.
[/quote]

This may have hurt your PR more than anything you have done in the past.

[R3nowned]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1291294331' post='2527973']
But don't we want a reaction from the web? If everyone moved around willy-nilly without consequence or lasting effect, what would be the point of signing treaties at all? Sure we'd have defensive measures in time of war, but politics are a huge part of this world. I'm certainly not completely against micro alliances (just most of them), but you certainly cannot make the claim that they benefit the game due to the fact that when they do something, no one cares or notices.
[/quote]
It's more criticising the fact that large alliances can't move around the web freely. It takes a cataclysmic event to be able to move from one side of the web to the other. You have to think about your current BFFs and their BFFs and make sure their BFF's BFF's BFF's treaties and yours don't clash yada yada. That's not mentioning the history and grudges between certain alliances/alliance leaders that you have to beware of.

Small/new alliances can strike up a relationship with almost anyone because of their clean slate. It makes for more active political manoeuvring, rather than sitting in the back channels waiting and plotting (which is probably more interesting for those in those back channels, but incredibly dull for those who aren't in there, unless they get leaks).

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='R3nowned' timestamp='1291341534' post='2528559']
Small/new alliances can strike up a relationship with almost anyone because of their clean slate. It makes for more active political manoeuvring, rather than sitting in the back channels waiting and plotting
[/quote]
What's the point of maneuvering if it doesn't really effect anything in the big picture? I do get what you're saying, and I'm not trying to belittle it. I just think that having the ability to maneuver freely isn't worth the price of being nearly irrelevant.

[R3nowned]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1291382464' post='2529018']
What's the point of maneuvering if it doesn't really effect anything in the big picture? I do get what you're saying, and I'm not trying to belittle it. I just think that having the ability to maneuver freely isn't worth the price of being nearly irrelevant.
[/quote]
That's what I'm getting at. The price for it isn't worth it. If big alliances were able to move around as freely as the micro alliances, CN would, in my opinion, become far more interesting.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='Rebounder' timestamp='1291010129' post='2525715']
This is my call to the leaders of all the alliances on Bob: ask yourself the simple question, "what can I do to make my alliance more powerful?" [/quote]

Actually these days you can make your alliance more powerful by adding tech and WRCs. Treaties follow suite. And that doesn't involve war.

EDIT: Unless of course, you're NPO. In that case the above applies to, just not the treaties part.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Lusitan

[Horatio Longworth]

[quote name='Rebounder' timestamp='1291010129' post='2525715']
Now go do something. Right now. Do it.
[/quote]
Would this reply count as a something?

In the meantime, I'm in the leave-it-as-it-is club.

[Believland]

[quote name='Burnsey' timestamp='1291058760' post='2525967']
What's your ambition then? To be the greatest alliance hopper?
[/quote]

It's not hopping when you get thrown out.

I think Fernando wrapped this up awhile back. Seriously? That just sounded extremely dirty.

[Rebounder]

[quote name='Horatio Longworth' timestamp='1291484694' post='2530057']
Would this reply count as a something?

In the meantime, I'm in the leave-it-as-it-is club.
[/quote]

That's the worst post I've seen by a Pacifican since the Karma War.

[NoFish]

[quote name='Rebounder' timestamp='1291485722' post='2530069']
That's the worst post I've seen by a Pacifican since the Karma War.
[/quote]
And, seriously, judging from this thread, Rebounder is an authority on terrible posting.

Oh! Also. I forgot something from my earlier rant. You know what else is making the game stagnate? You are. All of you. Anyone sitting around complaining about stagnation is the problem. Get on IRC and Do Something About it. I mean it. Get into FA and get some treaties canceled. In a micro whose treaties don't actually matter? Go join an alliance whose do. Can't get into FA? Bug your government and rouse up popular opinion to get those treaties canceled. Government won't listen? Coup the !@#$%^&*! Like all of your allies? Reroll and infiltrate an alliance you don't like much and do the same thing! The possibilities are endless!

And by Christ's wounds quit making a show of it on the OWF. It's not helping anyone. Especially if all you're doing is throwing your nation away by having your one-man micro AA make a stand.

[Rebounder]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1291489120' post='2530097']
And, seriously, judging from this thread, Rebounder is an authority on terrible posting.

Oh! Also. I forgot something from my earlier rant. You know what else is making the game stagnate? You are. All of you. Anyone sitting around complaining about stagnation is the problem. Get on IRC and Do Something About it. I mean it. Get into FA and get some treaties canceled. In a micro whose treaties don't actually matter? Go join an alliance whose do. Can't get into FA? Bug your government and rouse up popular opinion to get those treaties canceled. Government won't listen? Coup the !@#$%^&*! Like all of your allies? Reroll and infiltrate an alliance you don't like much and do the same thing! The possibilities are endless!

And by Christ's wounds quit making a show of it on the OWF. It's not helping anyone. Especially if all you're doing is throwing your nation away by having your one-man micro AA make a stand.
[/quote]

Thank you, I now see that I should do as you do. I'll shortly join an alliance and post complaints about everybody else's complaints. I may be making a show, but I guarantee I am being more helpful to the cause of ending the stagnation than you ever have. You tell us to "do something about it," then complain that nobody else is doing anything. Your post should be submitted to Webster for the definition of "hypocrisy."

[Locke]

[quote name='NoFish' timestamp='1291489120' post='2530097']
Reroll and infiltrate an alliance you don't like much and do the same thing!
[/quote]
You have no idea how tempted I've been to do that on occasion. Sadly, I'm more than a little attached to myself to throw it all away. :<