ODN-Umbrella MDoAP

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='VenetianBlind' timestamp='1290461890' post='2520543']
The next time we hang out
ODN will redeem itself
My heart can rest till then?
[/quote]

I was going to say "The next time we go to war, we will redeem ourselves, my heart can't rest till then."

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1290462373' post='2520554']
And when they do change they are told they are something-hegemony-esque to make sure the fear and loathing factor is maintained.

I'm sure that ODN has indeed changed, btw. What they've changed into however isn't something better unless you like meat on your shield.
[/quote]

ODN, at least, isn't a shell of its former self and actually makes a decent meatshield. Can you say the same?

[potato]

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1290462373' post='2520554']
And when they do change they are told they are something-hegemony-esque to make sure the fear and loathing factor is maintained.

I'm sure that ODN has indeed changed, btw. What they've changed into however isn't something better unless you like meat on your shield.
[/quote]

Hey! Meat-shield, get it? That was pretty clever. Good job. Love the irony too.

Wittiness aside, if Pingu OKs it, there must be a reason. Think what you want of the penguin but he's always been there to remind everyone inside or outside what the ODN truely is.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1290449627' post='2520388']
Well, as long as we're going to use old stereotypes that haven't been valid for years, do you enjoy suckling on Pacifica's teat?
[/quote]
Well the was a really silly thing to say.

[Cataduanes]

[quote name='BlkAK47_002' timestamp='1290468123' post='2520650']
Well the was a really silly thing to say.
[/quote]
Not really when taken in context, namely that old stereotypes no longer reflect the present because they are...like...old

[LJ Scott]

Since a few people asked, I obviously wasn't in favour of this, and it's not something that I'm pleased to see.

However, there is one positive to be taken from this, and that is that I can never see Umbrella sinking any lower than we have right now.

[BlkAK47_002]

[quote name='Cataduanes' timestamp='1290468467' post='2520653']
Not really when taken in context, namely that old stereotypes no longer reflect the present because they are...like...old
[/quote]
Understandable when you put it that way.

If only people applied that way of thinking when they talked about us

A man can dream though......

Edited November 23, 2010 by BlkAK47_002

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1290456650' post='2520475']
Those that deem ODN cowards, or fair-weather friends, or anything of that sort, clearly without knowing or understanding the alliance as it is today, instantly loses credibility. Just sayin'.
[/quote]

Spare me. They haven't proven that they've changed and your belief that they have doesn't qualify as change either.

[quote name='ForSparta' timestamp='1290457480' post='2520485']
Haters gonna hate.
[/quote]

And with fairly valid reason too.

Edited November 22, 2010 by Mr Damsky

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1290470257' post='2520680']
Spare me. They haven't proven that they've changed and your belief that they have doesn't qualify as change either.
[/quote]

So what makes your belief any more valid?

[joracy]

[quote name='LJ Scott' timestamp='1290469650' post='2520671']
Since a few people asked, I obviously wasn't in favour of this, and it's not something that I'm pleased to see.

However, there is one positive to be taken from this, and that is that I can never see Umbrella sinking any lower than we have right now.


[/quote]

I'm glad to help drag Umbrella down to the very lowest she can be

[Yankees Empire]

[quote name='LJ Scott' timestamp='1290469650' post='2520671']
Since a few people asked, I obviously wasn't in favour of this, and it's not something that I'm pleased to see.

However, there is one positive to be taken from this, and that is that I can never see Umbrella sinking any lower than we have right now.


[/quote]

If it makes you feel any better, I love the movie quote in your sig.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Yankees Empire

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1290470257' post='2520680']
Spare me. They haven't proven that they've changed and your belief that they have doesn't qualify as change either.
[/quote]

Actually they did. Karma was the prime example of that. This point has been rehashed quite a number of times, truth is, sides were looking pretty even and ODN could have tipped the scale in the favour of NPO and co. I have always been sceptical of ODN pre-Karma. I have been impressed by them a number of times during and post Karma.

[Locke]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1290472168' post='2520709']
Actually they did. Karma was the prime example of that.
[/quote]
Did you just use Karma as an example in [i]support[/i] of ODN?
/me wipes his glasses on his shirt.
Why yes, I think you did; now I've seen it all. [IMG]http://imgur.com/PYU3Q.gif[/IMG]

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Locke' timestamp='1290472329' post='2520713']
Did you just use Karma as an example in [i]support[/i] of ODN?
/me wipes his glasses on his shirt.
Why yes, I think you did; now I've seen it all. [IMG]http://imgur.com/PYU3Q.gif[/IMG]
[/quote]

Oh is this where you are going to argue that ODN switched sides to save their behinds? If so, leave it. We have all heard it before and it is based on false information, or at best a totally skewed image of reality.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='Yankees Empire' timestamp='1290471604' post='2520698']
So what makes your belief any more valid?
[/quote]

Because the last chance ODN had to honor their treaties they bailed out on their allies.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1290472168' post='2520709']
Actually they did. Karma was the prime example of that. This point has been rehashed quite a number of times, truth is, sides were looking pretty even and ODN could have tipped the scale in the favour of NPO and co. I have always been sceptical of ODN pre-Karma. I have been impressed by them a number of times during and post Karma.
[/quote]

ODN bailed out on it's allies [b]during the war[/b] (Karma War) by publicly announcing they were only going to honor certain treaties.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1290470257' post='2520680']
Spare me. They haven't proven that they've changed and your belief that they have doesn't qualify as change either.
[/quote]

Yes, it was entirely my intent to show they've changed by simply stating my belief.

Speaking as a former ally though, I'm convinced they have, and no amount of doubt from their detractors will change that. So please, Mr Damsky, spare me.

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1290473101' post='2520726']
Yes, it was entirely my intent to show they've changed by simply stating my belief.
[/quote]

I didn't say it was. I'm merely saying that your belief that they've changed doesn't qualify as change. When ODN was accepted into CnG that argument was used quite a lot.

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1290472862' post='2520719']
Oh is this where you are going to argue that ODN switched sides to save their behinds? If so, leave it. We have all heard it before and it is based on false information, or at best a totally skewed image of reality.
[/quote]

According to who? They !@#$@#$ said they weren't going to honor defensive obligations. It does not get more clear cut than that.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Mr Damsky

[OsRavan]

For some reason I always find it funny when you have a treaty announcement and all these people with zero ties to either of the two partners come out of the wood work to "warn" the alliances in question. Whether that warning is on the evil umbrella manipulating the poor ODN into being meat shields or the duped umbrellians taking on those horrible optional oranges.

Or in other words i'm always surprised to find such selflessly caring individuals in such odd corners of the web. Bravo for taking such a risk in warning us of the oncoming danger we face.

[supercoolyellow]

Mark my words and heed my warnings Osravan, you are much more likely to win a war with Umbrella at your side.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1290473413' post='2520733']
I didn't say it was. I'm merely saying that your belief that they've changed doesn't qualify as change.
[/quote]

And I never said or implied that my belief qualifies as change. It's not my intent here to demonstrate they've changed or to convince anyone of anything, but to express my opinion that they have and that those who ignore present circumstances and sell them short lack credibility.

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1290473413' post='2520733']
When ODN was accepted into CnG that argument [that they've changed] was used quite a lot.
[/quote]

Indeed, because C&G, like a great deal of alliances, feels they've changed.

[Havamil]

[quote name='OsRavan' timestamp='1290473898' post='2520741']
For some reason I always find it funny when you have a treaty announcement and all these people with zero ties to either of the two partners come out of the wood work to "warn" the alliances in question. Whether that warning is on the evil umbrella manipulating the poor ODN into being meat shields or the duped umbrellians taking on those horrible optional oranges.

Or in other words i'm always surprised to find such selflessly caring individuals in such odd corners of the web. Bravo for taking such a risk in warning us of the oncoming danger we face.
[/quote]
Whats even funnier is when your trying to tell folks like myself that had a history on Orange and was involved in some of the politics there that we have no clue.

Good Luck to you ella, When it comes to ODN Im thinking you may need it if the odds arent there

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1290474328' post='2520746']
And I never said or implied that my belief qualifies as change. It's not my intent here to demonstrate they've changed or to convince anyone of anything, but to express my opinion that they have and that those who ignore present circumstances and sell them short lack credibility.
[/quote]

So basically you fail to provide any evidence as to why they've changed and everyone who disagrees with you lacks credibility.

That's not much of an argument.

[SirWilliam]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' timestamp='1290474703' post='2520751']
So basically you fail to provide any evidence as to why they've changed and everyone who disagrees with you lacks credibility.

That's not much of an argument.
[/quote]

It was two sentences that you quoted; how'd you miss the part about me not intending on demonstrating they've changed or trying to convince anyone of anything? The part where I wasn't looking to present a case one way or the other, but express my viewpoint.

Now, as those who pay attention to threads where ODN's reputation comes up can attest to, I'll generally humor the detractors and provide such a case. Feel free to reference the previous debates if you desire such evidence.

Edited November 23, 2010 by SirWilliam

[Kowalski]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1290439382' post='2520314']
It was an honest question, thoguh I realize my position in the world makes it hard for people to ever get it. If the reason is to ensure safety, what's the threat? I wish to understand the new old world.
[/quote]
This a is a treaty announcement thread, it's no place for honest questions.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1290439382' post='2520314']
We can all laugh at the decadent GGA of the post-UjW era, but there was a point in time when GGA was a serious power. Serious enough to wreck GOONS, Genmay, \m/, and TPF over a bad raid and with some [i]excellent[/i] manoeuvering in tandem with Polaris(/Pacifica).
[/quote]
GGA were a political force, never a fighting force, which is what the original disagreement was over.

Edited November 23, 2010 by Kowalski

[AnCapistan]

[quote name='SirWilliam' timestamp='1290475070' post='2520755']
It was two sentences that you quoted; how'd you miss the part about me not intending on demonstrating they've changed or trying to convince anyone of anything? The part where I wasn't looking to present a case one way or the other, but express my viewpoint.
[/quote]

Usually when you express a viewpoint and that viewpoint is challenged you back it up with evidence instead of labeling anyone that doesn't agree with it as not having credibility.