A Statement from the Mushroom Kingdom

[xoindotnler]

[quote name='Batallion' timestamp='1289332632' post='2508368']
I personally HATE IT when people plaster private things onto the OWF. For this, I hope RV pays for his actions.
[/quote]
Thank you for jumping in, it wasn't totally explained why it was brought to the OWF. /sarcasm

V Post below me is V

Edited November 9, 2010 by xoindotnler

[supercoolyellow]

[quote name='Batallion' timestamp='1289332632' post='2508368']
I personally HATE IT when people plaster private things onto the OWF. For this, I hope RV pays for his actions.
[/quote]

[url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94340"]Yeah, me too[/url]

[Matthew Conrad]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1289284614' post='2507499']
I...see. Because relying on playing on folks goodwill towards your one member to cover for you is...original?




I'm amazed that Ivan brings people over to our side to begin with.


Really? You're honestly going to argue that Archon is running the day to day operations? Very well then.

And as for examples, how about the fact you royally irked AirMe, who called you out consistently in RV's thread.
[/quote]

Are you even serious? You're now defending your dumb statement by arguing you have to run day to day operations to not be a retired leader? I'll be glad to hear how many major alliance leaders do that. I'm not sure if you exactly understand what other government members are there for.

[Batallion]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289332902' post='2508376']
Why should this conversation have been private?
[/quote]

RV agreed to the reps, and then plastered it all over the OWF. If he was angry with it he shouldn't have accepted it, let MK attack, and THEN plastered it on the OWF to show how ridiculous MK was being. This was completely the most incompetent thing I've ever seen, so you reap what you sow (directed to RV).

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='Timeline' timestamp='1289332325' post='2508364']
Well like anyone on plant BoB, when an alliance like MK makes a mistake that can be seen from space [ooc]on the scale of the great wall of China[ooc] we have to mark it with a sig.

For you MK with love
[img]http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2650/24222565.gif[/img]
[/quote]"Meow" does not mean what you think it means.

[Shodemofi-NPO]

[quote name='Batallion' timestamp='1289333350' post='2508388']
RV agreed to the reps, and then plastered it all over the OWF. If he was angry with it he shouldn't have accepted it, let MK attack, and THEN plastered it on the OWF to show how ridiculous MK was being. This was completely the most incompetent thing I've ever seen, so you reap what you sow (directed to RV).
[/quote]
That would actually possibly be the stupidest thing he could have done. The whole idea was to [i]avoid[/i] being rolled, hence the agreement to pay the reps. MK doesn't have to attack for everyone to see how low MK has stooped.

[greenacres]

Will this actually amount to anything of note, or will NSO cave and pay up, or will the underlying threat of attack (without spelling it out as a military attack) be something completely underwhelming?

[Batallion]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289333546' post='2508395']
That would actually possibly be the stupidest thing he could have done. The whole idea was to [i]avoid[/i] being rolled, hence the agreement to pay the reps. MK doesn't have to attack for everyone to see how low MK has stooped.
[/quote]

No, no, I meant he would negotiate, but if MK demanded 15 mill and 250 tech as a final ultimatum, then he should have refused and let MK roll them. That's really the only option other than just agreeing and subsequently paying the reps, but clearly that's not what happened and he even launched a smear campaign. That's really the part that strikes nerves as you can see in Archon's post.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289333546' post='2508395']
That would actually possibly be the stupidest thing he could have done. The whole idea was to [i]avoid[/i] being rolled, hence the agreement to pay the reps. MK doesn't have to attack for everyone to see how low MK has stooped.
[/quote]

Dance monkey, DANCE!

[Shodemofi-NPO]

[quote name='Batallion' timestamp='1289333836' post='2508399']
No, no, I meant he would negotiate, but if MK demanded 15 mill and 250 tech as a final ultimatum, then he should have refused and let MK roll them. That's really the only option other than just agreeing and subsequently paying the reps, but clearly that's not what happened and he even launched a smear campaign. That's really the part that strikes nerves as you can see in Archon's post.
[/quote]
Here's a thought to Archon then. If you don't want the way your alliance is acting to be public, you might try telling them not to act that way.

[Aurion]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289332824' post='2508373']
Act in bad faith? MK coerces NSO into paying a ridiculous sum yet NSO is somehow at fault because they shared what was going on with the rest of Planet Bob?[/quote]

I could be wrong about NSO not wanting to pay the 15/250, but I'm moderately sure they didn't want to pay it. Instead of working on it, they did the one thing practically guaranteed to make everyone involved dig in their heels.

It certainly wasn't good faith, if they actually wanted it lowered to a reasonable level.

[quote]
All RV did was make the conversation public. MK's the one dragging their own name through the mud.
[/quote]

MK was in the mud from the second RV posted. It's the entire point of the thread.


[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289332872' post='2508375']
NSO did act in good faith. MK failed to act in good faith in the negotiations.
[/quote]

Did they now? The worst you can really accuse them of is highballing (which happens a lot more often than you're pretending), and then digging in when it hit the forums.

$%&@up, sure. Negotiating in bad faith? Debatable as all hell at best.

[quote]Just because NSO didn't pick up that MK was (according to MK's story) only toying with them, and thought that their threatening demeanor was dead serious, does not mean it is NSO who was acting in bad faith by any stretch of the imagination.[/quote]

I don't think expecting a negotiation constitutes "toying" with someone but whatever floats your boat I suppose.

[quote]
The response from NSO is something that they should have expected.[/quote]

Not arguing with that at all. The entirety of this is exactly what I'd expect from NSO.
[quote]
NSO's attitude was praised back in the day when it was applied to your enemies.[/quote]

I'm not sure NSO's attitude has ever actually been directed at my enemies.

[quote]
NSO isn't the group that has changed since that time.
[/quote]

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Edited November 9, 2010 by Aurion

[tamerlane]

[quote name='Shodemofi' timestamp='1289333913' post='2508401']
Here's a thought to Archon then. If you don't want the way your alliance is acting to be public, you might try telling them not to act that way.
[/quote]

So all sensitive diplomatic logs are to be published on the OWF? Duly noted.

[JT Jag]

I'm clearly biased, but I don't see the problem here. NSO agreed to pay a sum. Then they complained about the sum they agreed to publicly. Now MK wants the agreed-to sum.

Not too hard to comprehend.

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='JT Jag' timestamp='1289334367' post='2508407']
I'm clearly biased, but I don't see the problem here. NSO agreed to pay a sum. Then they complained about the sum they agreed to publicly. Now MK wants the agreed-to sum.

Not too hard to comprehend.
[/quote]So you're saying, if I point a gun at your head and demand your wallet, you have no reason to complain once you handed your wallet over?

This is a really interesting view on morality you have here.

[Itsuki Koizumi]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289335292' post='2508413']
So you're saying, if I point a gun at your head and demand your wallet, you have no reason to complain once you handed your wallet over?

This is a really interesting view on morality you have here.
[/quote]
yeah... because NSO totally had no fault in this mess...

[LittleRena]

[quote name='tamerlane' timestamp='1289334089' post='2508404']
So all sensitive diplomatic logs are to be published on the OWF? Duly noted.
[/quote]

You only disgree with it because it shows you in a bad light, if MK had posted private logs with NSO, you'd be hailing it.

[Branimir]

Its like,...you arent even trying anymore MK

Only reasonable explanation for this announcement is that you didn't really think this one through. Admitting to error, but continuing it 'coz you got called out on it, is quite silly. And Archon's poetic writing just isn't there,...didn't feel any emotion. No laugh, cry, smile out of me. I mean that classic "no draconian reps" speech from start of karma almost got ME DoWing NPO nations,....

Anyway, how you like being screamed at by half the CN for being evil, and not be the ones to do the screaming at others?
Which role do you like more? Which role to you find to be more difficult? Just some curiosity questions from me, nothing more,...

[Rebel Virginia]

[color="#0000FF"]I'm not sure what all you are trying to say when you point out that had I talked to Lebubu that we could possibly have paid less. What does three or six million off of fifteen million mater? MK demanded chump change. My issue was not with the amount but rather the fact that we owed anything at all. Repaying the harbor money is a different issue. The main reason they initially demanded money was because someone canceled a trade and they couldn't find a replacement. It was an absurd demand, but we had little choice but to pay. So talking to Lebubu would not have done much, and lowering the amount demanded of an already low demand would not have accomplished much. I'm not going to spend several hours of my time talking with hostile parties just to pay three or six million dollars less.[/color]

[HeroofTime55]

[quote name='Itsuki Koizumi' timestamp='1289335396' post='2508416']
yeah... because NSO totally had no fault in this mess...
[/quote]Yes, this is correct.

Exposing the truth is [i]never[/i] a crime. Parties in power try to make it into one to cover up their own misdeeds.

[Petrovich4]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1289284023' post='2507460']
Speak negatively in public about the Mushroom Kingdom?

"That'll be $12,000,000 and 250 tech, pls."

How cute.
[/quote]

This.

MK messed this up beyond bad with the above and this will reverbate and accelerate the polarization of this world making you the bad guys...which is what some MKers want. You lost serious strategic ground here.

Hell, RV won that mini PR war, but MK just lost this one with this OP. Standing by your guns is good but you chose the wrong words to express why (see above quote). Do you know how many times Vanguard and other direct and indirect MK allies would have been rolled by NPO and Co if negative PR = instant extortion and roll? Many alliances, many times over (we had Denial!).


I'll be surprised if there is a war. RV and NSO won these two massive battles and would be smart to walk away victorious.

[tamerlane]

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1289335471' post='2508418']
You only disgree with it because it shows you in a bad light, if MK had posted private logs with NSO, you'd be hailing it.
[/quote]

Ive never applauded log posting as a practice, don't put words in my mouth.

Edited November 9, 2010 by tamerlane

[Steve Buscemi]

[quote name='Branimir' timestamp='1289335555' post='2508420']
Its like,...you arent even trying anymore MK

Only reasonable explanation for this announcement is that you didn't really think this one through. Admitting to error, but continuing it 'coz you got called out on it, is quite silly. And Archon's poetic writing just isn't there,...didn't feel any emotion. No laugh, cry, smile out of me. I mean that classic "no draconian reps" speech from start of karma almost got ME DoWing NPO nations,....

Anyway, how you like being screamed at by half the CN for being evil, and not be the ones to do the screaming at others?
Which role do you like more? Which role to you find to be more difficult? Just some curiosity questions from me, nothing more,...
[/quote]
Yea, nothing more, no obvious propaganda here folks...move along. Way to fail at hyperbole.

[nippy]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289335292' post='2508413']
So you're saying, if I point a gun at your head and demand your wallet, you have no reason to complain once you handed your wallet over?
[/quote]

Work on your analogies. That doesn't apply to this situation one bit.

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289335292' post='2508413']
This is a really interesting view on morality you have here.
[/quote]

MK failing as moralists? Good lord!


[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1289335471' post='2508418']
You only disgree with it because it shows you in a bad light, if MK had posted private logs with NSO, you'd be hailing it.
[/quote]

You could try following the conversation you intervened on, perhaps. It's on the same page you posted your reply to. Tamerlane was simply stating that not everyone sees what goes on behind the scenes within MK. His response was in reply to Shodemofi's "Here's a thought to Archon then. If you don't want the way your alliance is acting to be public, you might try telling them not to act that way." See, if you look at what Tamerlane was retorting, you'll see that your comment was completely ridiculous and made no sense if one takes into consideration your quoting of Tamerlane's post.

[Branimir]

[quote name='Steve Buscemi' timestamp='1289336041' post='2508430']Yea, nothing more, no obvious propaganda here folks...move along. Way to fail at hyperbole.[/quote]
I don't think you know what your talking about.

[Rocky Horror]

[quote name='HeroofTime55' timestamp='1289335292' post='2508413']
So you're saying, if I point a gun at your head and demand your wallet, you have no reason to complain once you handed your wallet over?

This is a really interesting view on morality you have here.
[/quote]Oh God, the return of the metaphors [ooc]that are hugely massively offensive to anyone who has been mugged or raped irl, so if you're so big on morality then you might want to stop acting like a child and develop your points in a less sensationalist way[/ooc] and don't even match the situation even slightly.

It's like they dented our land rover with their smart car and we high-balled the insurance figure. They didn't even bother to find out what it might be worth in reality, so just paid while making passive-aggressive comments. They then complained to the police, their neighbours, talk radio and the prime minister about how a land rover driver is literally the worst thing since hitler.

That is exactly what happened.