Institutional Anarchy, GOONS and Raiding

[Louisa]

Since this seems to be your new career choice why not just start TWiG? It would be easier to find among threads, plus would look cleaner on the resume as well.

[Gobb]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285278596' post='2462526']
[color="#8B0000"][b]Finnish cooperation organization 5[/b][/color]
[/quote]
FCO disbanded in May and the protection for its AA ended a couple weeks into June.

[Venizelos]

if the alliances that get raided on get reps, and have no complaints, i dont understand what your problem is.

[MikeCrotch]

[quote name='Venizelos' timestamp='1285410650' post='2464184']
if the alliances that get raided on get reps, and have no complaints, i dont understand what your problem is.
[/quote]

Because then Schatt wouldn't have his GONS thread.

[citizenkane]

How disappointing Schattenmann, using out of date info and presenting it in anti-goons style.

I wonder how GOONS raids compare to another raiding alliance, e.g. PC, Kronos and non-raiding alliances e.g. NpO

[Timmmehhh]

[quote name='citizenkane' timestamp='1285417606' post='2464217']
How disappointing Schattenmann, using out of date info and presenting it in anti-goons style.

I wonder how GOONS raids compare to another raiding alliance, e.g. PC, Kronos and non-raiding alliances e.g. NpO
[/quote]
What can you expect from a guy who faked a war (BDC vs Browncoats) so he didn't have to uphold his treaty with IAA who were about to get rolled during the One Vision vs GATO war. Treachery and deceit are his traits.

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Bubblegum_War

Edited September 25, 2010 by Timmehhh

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Captain Flinders' timestamp='1285368122' post='2463650']
So you're saying that 130 bad raids in a four month period is alright as long as you're making it better? You guys have been around for a while. Yes, you do have to educate new members as to the subtleties of raiding, but there are lots of raiding alliances in this world. I think you'd be hard pressed to find one with that many bad raids in that length of time.
[/quote]
It certainly wouldn't be "alright" if we didn't do anything about it. Any time our newbies make mistakes in raiding we fix the situation to the satisfaction of the alliance hit. The actual figure isn't going to be anywhere near 130, but whatever number it really is, we fixed those issues that were outstanding.

[Biazt]

[quote name='Lord Gobb' timestamp='1285409655' post='2464178']
FCO disbanded in May and the protection for its AA ended a couple weeks into June.
[/quote]
Ah, another 5 raids struck down. It's hilarious seeing how many of these are actually valid.

[Batallion]

[quote name='Timmehhh' timestamp='1285423107' post='2464267']
What can you expect from a guy who faked a war (BDC vs Browncoats) so he didn't have to uphold his treaty with IAA who were about to get rolled during the One Vision vs GATO war. Treachery and deceit are his traits.

http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/Bubblegum_War
[/quote]

True, but he also contributed greatly to the fall of the Continuum and the rise of Vox Populi. Seems like a shapeshifter

[nippy]

[quote name='Batallion' timestamp='1285432145' post='2464327']
True, but he also contributed greatly to the fall of the Continuum and the rise of Vox Populi. Seems like a shapeshifter
[/quote]

How long ago was that? It seems like his only crutch of notoriety. Since then, what has he done other than whine?

[Schattenmann]

[quote name='Voytek' timestamp='1285404660' post='2464154']
This is a fun new narrative. Why don't you just come out and say it?
[/quote]
It's not particularly new. I always argued pre-Karma that NPO's allies were more to blame for the state of things than NPO. Do you honestly think that MA and RoK would have let GOONS's high arrogance in raiding slide if MK hadn't been behind MK?

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1285433808' post='2464334']
How long ago was that? It seems like his only crutch of notoriety. Since then, what has he done other than whine?
[/quote]
I managed to found the first post-Moldavi Doctrine Red alliance and pioneered Red Dawn and its age of Red Senate sharing--for the first time in 4 years--by incorporating NPO into it. And all with less than 5 members, wow. What's GOONS been up to in the same time period? Have you changed the way Black operates? Have you forumlated and propagated ideologies that will be effecting the world in two years? Is "existing" an accomplishment?

Edited September 25, 2010 by Schattenmann

[nippy]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285435347' post='2464347']
I managed to found the first post-Moldavi Doctrine Red alliance and pioneered Red Dawn and its age of Red Senate sharing--for the first time in 4 years--by incorporating NPO into it. And all with less than 5 members, wow.
[/quote]

It's funny what you're proud of.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285435347' post='2464347']
What's GOONS been up to in the same time period? Have you changed the way Black operates? Have you forumlated and propagated ideologies that will be effecting the world in two years? Is "existing" an accomplishment?[/quote]

Are you drinking? 'forumlated'? 'effecting'?
For someone that is worshiped by lesser people, your fingers certainly aren't hitting the right keys. GOONS is happily [b]affecting[/b] black sphere by having one of our own senators and by providing many trade opportunities for black nations. "Existing" is an accomplishment, yes. Bob's track record of alliances (including Neutral Shoving) should put that argument to bed. We're not only existing, but we're riling so many people up that they're going rogue on us left and right. These are wonderful times, not only because our nations are getting war experience and aren't dying of boredom, but also because it really separates the action takers from the mouthpieces. You've been arrogantly outspoken against us, but that's all you're willing to do. Go ahead, switch AA's and go rogue, tough guy. Oh wait, you won't.

[Louisa]

I just want to know what happened in the last year that caused such a Schattenmannian U-turn, from "GOONS was great, I was there a month you know, also Hidden Goonery" to "GOONS are the scum of Bob, raid badly every day." Is it because the first quote refers to Old GOONS and the second to New GOONS?

(I am asking this because it seems that the modern consensus is that Old GOONS was useless scum {this breaks my heart} while New GOONS are charming barbaphiles {is that a word}, which in the above case seems to cast the Schattenmannian morality in a very strange light. Furthermore, greetings.)

[Gofastleft]

[quote name='Biazt' timestamp='1285430774' post='2464321']
Ah, another 5 raids struck down. It's hilarious seeing how many of these are actually valid.
[/quote]

Well you can strike down 2 more

"iFOK Applicant 2"

both of these were approved before any attacks took place. Nice try though.

[Dr Beefstupid]

I think it's funny that Schattenman has gone back to edit a few of the contested "bad raids" saying that they're "disputed". If you changed every one that was disputed, you'd have to change a lot more. The fact is, he changed ones that we've pretty well answered beyond a doubt but he's using weasel words to make it seem like he's still more-or-less right anyway.

Also, despite editing the OP to make it more factually correct, he has not corrected any of the ridiculously absurd claims that have since been answered in detail, like that "Stupid Newbie" is our training AA where we give them instructions.

To err is human. To completely ignore, deflect, and to refuse to admit you have erred is Schattenman.

Edited September 25, 2010 by Dr Beefstupid

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285435347' post='2464347']
It's not particularly new. I always argued pre-Karma that NPO's allies were more to blame for the state of things than NPO. Do you honestly think that MA and RoK would have let GOONS's high arrogance in raiding slide if MK hadn't been behind MK?
[/quote]

Indeed, it's interesting how the more things change the more they stay the same. Seeing the goons (and others like them also from the old hegemony) pull their new enabling power structure down to their level and shape it again to its purposes and bad behaviors, it's almost as if the old hegemony was never really overthrown.

Also, quite an interesting report. Experience tells me the more spittle-filled protests from those you expose we see, the closer we know you are to the truth.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Bavaricar

[Biazt]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1285463742' post='2464733']
Indeed, it's interesting how the more things change the more they stay the same. Seeing the goons (and others like them also from the old hegemony) pull their new enabling power structure down to their level and shape it again to its purposes and bad behaviors, it's almost as if the old hegemony was never really overthrown.

Also, quite an interesting report. Experience tells me the more spittle-filled protests from those you expose we see, the closer we know you are to the truth.
[/quote]
The only spittle-filled protests I see here are the ones that take months to "research" then inevitable turn out to be demonstratively false.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Biazt' timestamp='1285465530' post='2464753']
The only spittle-filled protests I see here are the ones that take months to "research" then inevitable turn out to be demonstratively false.
[/quote]

Do you ever get tired of just switching someone else's words around in your "counter" arguments? I notice that practice constitutes the overwhelming number of your alliance's posts around here. Maybe try thinking up an answer using your own words some day instead of just rearranging those of the post you think you are answering? Because, really, I stopped paying much attention to most of your alliance members' posts many days ago and that makes me a sad panda since I really do like reading good counter arguments.

Edited September 26, 2010 by Bavaricar

[Choson]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1285466067' post='2464768']
Do you ever get tired of just switching someone else's words around in your "counter" arguments? I notice that practice constitutes the overwhelming number of your alliance's posts around here. Maybe try thinking up an answer using your own words some day instead of just rearranging those of the post you think you are answering? Because, really, I stopped paying much attention to most of your alliance members' posts many days ago and that makes me a sad panda since I really do like reading good counter arguments.
[/quote]
Instead of trying to egg us on with posts of no substance, how about you read the posts where we and other alliances' officials have stated that Schattenmann's data is blatantly false and proved it?

If Schattenmann is so right, how come he refuses to give out dates for his data? He has an obvious agenda and is far too biased against us to be a credible source of information.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Choson' timestamp='1285466723' post='2464778']
Instead of trying to egg us on with posts of no substance, how about you read the posts where we and other alliances' officials have stated that Schattenmann's data is blatantly false and proved it?

If Schattenmann is so right, how come he refuses to give out dates for his data? He has an obvious agenda and is far too biased against us to be a credible source of information.
[/quote]

Probably because I see where he made adjustments and you still want to dismiss the whole report since it does not and never will meet the goon standards of scientistic rigor.

[Iserlohn]

"Scientistic" is correct, in that it looks like what a scientist on TV might do, but is not actually scientific.

Real science involves peer review. Plenty of peers have reviewed it and found it sorely lacking. Better luck next time.

[Bavaricar]

[quote name='Iserlohn' timestamp='1285470219' post='2464832']
"Scientistic" is correct, in that it looks like what a scientist on TV might do, but is not actually scientific.
[/quote]

I understand you goons believe your intellects are superior to all others, but really?

Imagine my surprise when I saw your proud public comprehension of this term was followed by your agreement with my use of it.

[Choson]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1285466990' post='2464788']
Probably because I see where he made adjustments and you still want to dismiss the whole report since it does not and never will meet the goon standards of scientistic rigor.
[/quote]
We're dismissing the report because it is highly flawed, adjustments or not. This report is a perfect example of systemic and cognitive biases.

[Jakome]

Man that is a lot of typing

[Beefspari]

[quote name='Bavaricar' timestamp='1285466990' post='2464788']
Probably because I see where he made adjustments and you still want to dismiss the whole report since it does not and never will meet the goon standards of scientistic rigor.
[/quote]
Maybe it's just me, but I don't really trust a list that someone who hates me generated to show how much I suck. Or a list that someone generated where they don't show any proof or sources. Or a list of 100+ items that has to be cut in half almost immediately.

I wonder what credibility I'd have if I published a list of 150 known terrorists with no proof or sources, and within a couple days evidence surfaces that half the list isn't true. Are people really going to keep standing there pointing at the ones that are left?