War Ends

[Ragashingo]

I'm not too worried over the whole lying/ not lying thing. I am disappointed however that the "he's not lying" side didn't push harder for "he meant reps" line of thinking. Seems like that would have been the way to go. This whole "well they had to listen to their allies" reason seems a bit silly to me. It's appropriate for some wars (mainly big ones) but really kind of dubious in this one given that the allies were (or should have been?) only in it to help fill slots.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Ragashingo

[shaneprice]

VanHoo said in all of those quotes above that he could not speak for the other alliances engaging NSO, all he said is that it would be over between NSO and RoK. It is, he kept his word...case closed.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='shaneprice' timestamp='1282676637' post='2429671']
VanHoo said in all of those quotes above that he could not speak for the other alliances engaging NSO, all he said is that it would be over between NSO and RoK. It is, he kept his word...case closed.
[/quote]

Summed up so nicely too.

[SonOfHoward]

[quote]
We acknowledge that threatening The Empire of the New Evolution when they desired to defend their alliance from unwarranted attacks by an unaligned nation was wrong,
and was an aggressive and interventionist action. [/quote]

I don't think NSO did anything wrong; the NSO is the NSO. They did what they did and lost. Should be as simple as that. If we didn't have alliances like NSO we would have no wars at all; no one would do anything(Much like NSO's allies.)

[The Crimson King]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282661555' post='2429435']


TPF were told in advance that the war would only last a few days to a week. Guess what? It lasted a week.
[/quote]

Lets clear this little bit of revisionist history up shall we.

What TPF was told was that you wanted two cycles of war. Furthermore peace was also initially contingent a signed statement from us attesting to our guilt in the matter that we did not agree with (all of which sounds vaguely similar to this situation mind you). It is the latter to which ultimately we stood our ground and was eventually withdrawn, and is also what I believe the poster you quoted was referencing in their statement.

So yes, you are correct the war did only last a week. But to say that a few days of war and then peace was what was initially told to us is far from the truth.

Now that we have that cleared that up, please return to your regularly scheduled programs.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='The Crimson King' timestamp='1282677499' post='2429687']

So yes, you are correct the war did only last a week. But to say that a few days of war and then peace was what was initially told to us is far from the truth.

Now that we have that cleared that up, please return to your regularly scheduled programs.
[/quote]

Incorrect. JBone asked me how long we wanted this to go on the day we declared and I said "a few days to a week, we're not looking to crush TPF here."

However, this isn't about TPF/RoK ... I guess we'll just have to go to PM or agree to disagree here.

Note: The part about admission of guilt is accurate. We went to TPF to discuss terms at around the one week mark. Initially such a term was requested, but we decided just to end it instead of continuing to bicker over something so small that TPF would not mean anyway.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Van Hoo III

[Heft]

[quote name='Valtamdraugr' timestamp='1282676164' post='2429660']
Being a little fish, I am not privy to back-room conversations, but it seems to me that LintWad made the best of a !@#$%* situation.

There have been bad decisions concerning all of this, but I think his was the least of these.
[/quote]
Lintwad made the right decision in ending the war and demonstrated again why he is the Emperor.

I refrain from calling the terms "lenient" only because anything more would have been rightly regarded as overly harsh, given the circumstances. But, yes, they certainly could have been worse. We recognize that.

We also recognize that the statement prepared for us is gibberish and wish to make sure everyone else realizes that as well.

[Zombie Glaucon]

Reading those logs... it made me a little sad to see Xiphosis and Impero sell Hoo down the river. Good luck with people accepting your word over anything in the future, Hoo.

[Copperhead]

[quote name='VeritasK' timestamp='1282676097' post='2429659']
If you think Wad of Lint made a mistake, leave NSO, create an alliance, declare war on RoK, VE, R&R, GOD, and TENE. Otherwise in the end you support his decision of saving pixels and have no right being a hypocrite criticizing it.

And if you aren't in NSO and criticizing his decision.... Aren't you important?
[/quote]

Just because you are in the alliance doesn't mean you support his decision. I personally have no opinion on the decision itself because it's over. I said that he put his name on BS but I didn't criticize whether him doing it was the right call.

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='shaneprice' timestamp='1282676637' post='2429671']
VanHoo said in all of those quotes above that he could not speak for the other alliances engaging NSO, all he said is that it would be over between NSO and RoK. It is, he kept his word...case closed.
[/quote]

Ahh, so what you're saying here is when this was said:

[quote]<Impero[VE]> [b]weve[/b] prepaird a set of terms that, if you agree, will end the war tonight
...
<Xiphosis[GOD]> Hoo is 1 of 4 leaders on this front. These are the terms [b]we[/b] agreed to.[/quote]

Impero and Xiphosis were just using Hoo's name without him knowing about it or agreeing to it?

[Rayvon]

[quote name='Rayvon' timestamp='1282675687' post='2429652']
Yes - most of us would. But at this time, it would have been dumb. It's a cointoss.
[/quote]


[quote name='VeritasK' timestamp='1282676097' post='2429659']
If you think Wad of Lint made a mistake, leave NSO, create an alliance, declare war on RoK, VE, R&R, GOD, and TENE. Otherwise in the end you support his decision of saving pixels and have no right being a hypocrite criticizing it.
[/quote]

My yes, was to continuing the fight. I should have removed the part of the quote about asking if he made a mistake for the sake of clarity. Though I figured the part about it being dumb to continue would have offered something to clarity on that.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Lord Strider' timestamp='1282655519' post='2429354']
The fact that people are still coming here bawwing is stupid. Get over it, NSO made some stupid moves, got spanked for it. Deal with it and stop crying like a teen girl that just found out her boyfriend likes his playstation more than her. It is really unbecoming to read some of these comments; Start acting like nation leaders.
[/quote]

No, you are right. A good nation leader let's others walk over them and lie about the terms that are to be handed down to them. I'm sure if MK applied the same attitude, they wouldn't even be here. (Not that I don't like the sound of that...)

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' timestamp='1282678438' post='2429699']Impero and Xiphosis were just using Hoo's name without him knowing about it or agreeing to it?
[/quote]


I requested that the original statement be toned down to the one shown in the OP. However, I have always stated that I was fine with walking away without said statement.

[Crymson]

[quote name='goldielax25' timestamp='1282676574' post='2429668']
I have to respond to this, and the comment you made earlier about Xiph and not getting reps.

There was a talk of reps discussion. Very early discussions had token reps of amounts varying between 6 and 18 million going to TENE, with a simple admission of surrender. You can say a lot of things about Xiph, but he was not seeking reps.

Hoo also does not have the ability to put people in their places over CN when he isn't even at a computer.

For those who are hopping on the 'Hoo is a liar' bandwagon:

NSO has known a lot of things for nearly two weeks. They knew the war would last two rounds, they knew that reparations would not be asked for save for perhaps token ones to TENE, and they knew we were expecting a statement of surrender. That never changed. The villification of Hoo in this thread is mindboggling. NSO got exactly what they were told, two weeks of war, and that they would have to admit guilt. The only thing added that was not something tossed around for two weeks was the beer review, which I agree is unnecessary in these terms. But if you are going to call Hoo a liar because what he had been saying for two weeks was exactly true, save for the beer review inserted at the end, then you really are reaching for straws.
[/quote]

Heh. I was told by many that Xiphosis was hopping mad about NSO being "allowed" to get off so easy.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Crymson

[Andre27]

[quote name='shaneprice' timestamp='1282676637' post='2429671']
VanHoo said in all of those quotes above that he could not speak for the other alliances engaging NSO, all he said is that it would be over between NSO and RoK. It is, he kept his word...case closed.
[/quote]

Those are not the things which bother me. It is the fact that diplomacy was not given a chance. It is the fact that if ROK is defending a protectorate, they should not bring friends to outnumber the opponent 6-1. It is the fact that this is defended as a legitimate tactic. All these things bring back bad memories.

What a legacy of progress the Karma war has brought, it makes me sick to my stomach.
Cowardly, nothing more nothing less.

@Shane: Fortuna Fortes Juvat. Perhaps you can see why i despise those tactics.

Edited August 24, 2010 by Andre27

[Goldie]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1282679419' post='2429722']
Heh. I was told by many that Xiphosis was hopping mad about NSO being "allowed" to get off so easy.
[/quote]

Xiphosis gets hopping mad about a lot of things, but that there were no reparations attached was not one of them.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1282679419' post='2429722']
Heh. I was told by many that Xiphosis was hopping mad about NSO being "allowed" to get off so easy.
[/quote]


It goes without saying that Xiph will just about always want harsher terms than I do, but in this instance he did not want any reps.

[Mirreille]

Arguing aside, the statement made in the OP is pretty clear, but I have a question. What is this statement referring to?

[quote]We acknowledge that threatening The Empire of the New Evolution when they desired to defend their alliance from unwarranted attacks by an unaligned nation was wrong,
and was an aggressive and interventionist action.[/quote]

I read 150+ pages worth of bickering in the last couple weeks, but I don't recall anything like this happening. I thought NSO never actualy talked to TENE before the shooting started, which RV confirmed in one of his posts in this thread. Is this some sort of reference to the aid that was sent to the rogue nation?

[shilo]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282676755' post='2429673']
Summed up so nicely too.
[/quote]
Another summary would be: Although he started the war, it was led and ended by his allies. Something to keep in mind for future "incidents" involving SF curbstomping alliances with "solid CBs".

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='shilo' timestamp='1282680311' post='2429739']
Another summary would be: Although he started the war, it was led and ended by his allies. Something to keep in mind for future "incidents" involving SF curbstomping alliances with "solid CBs".
[/quote]


A massive reach, but in reading your posts through all of this ... it is expected.

[shilo]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282680457' post='2429743']
A massive reach, but in reading your posts through all of this ... it is expected.
[/quote]
What is the reach here: You said you signed a statement that you personally hold no worth towards, one that was handed to NSO despite you saying otherwise before.

[Lukapaka]

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1282679419' post='2429722']
Heh. I was told by many that Xiphosis was hopping mad about NSO being "allowed" to get off so easy.
[/quote]

I highly doubt [i]anybody[/i] was hopping.

I don't get what all the fuss is about? The terms are short and simple. If NSO didn't want to make their statement of wrongdoing, then they could have called in reinforcements (their allies) and tried to win the war. Otherwise, they should be grateful these were the only terms imposed upon them.

Or we can all just hate on RoK for these ebil Hegemonic terms

Edited August 24, 2010 by Lukapaka

[Shifty Stranger]

This is makes me cringe. You went to war because you didn't get to beat down Sedrick properly and you didn't get reps yet now that you've won the war and destroyed plenty of your own nations, you don't ask for reps?

[Crymson]

[quote name='Van Hoo III' timestamp='1282680027' post='2429733']
It goes without saying that Xiph will just about always want harsher terms than I do, but in this instance he did not want any reps.
[/quote]

Fair enough. I was incorrect, then.

[Van Hoo III]

[quote name='shilo' timestamp='1282680567' post='2429746']
What is the reach here: You said you signed a statement that you personally hold no worth towards, one that was handed to NSO despite you saying otherwise before.
[/quote]

Your terrible attempt at implying that someone "ran" the war and also dictated terms to everyone else. SuperFriends (and also RoK's allies) aren't this giant entity with a single leader calling the shots. We are a group of alliances with our own opinions, views, and sovereignty. Just because one alliance doesn't require a statement on the OWF, it doesn't mean we'll all feel the same way. We will, however, support our allies desire to see such a statement should it end the war for [b]all parties.[/b]

I've already explained to you how these terms came to be, you simply refuse to pay full attention. In the future we will be sure to place an asterisk next to the terms complete with a "***As previously stated and so the dense masses of the OWF understand, RoK still has no interest in terms and never did. They simply wanted the war to end and for their allies to achieve peace at the same time."

Next time we'll let our opponent sit and get rolled by our allies so we don't have to put up with so many horrible forum posters ... though, as I have stated before, you'll [b]still[/b] find something to complain about in regard to myself and Ragnarok.