War Ends

[kevin32891]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1282866774' post='2432147']
I apologized in private to DC for putting us in a compromised position the night that it happened (note that I didn't apologize for doing something "wrong" beyond that, though, for all the people who think my act was some grave crime).

I then returned fairly early the next day and stayed on the entire time to try and rectify the error and then, after it was clear that wouldn't be allowed to happen, to at least be around to help where I could throughout the war, with the exception of a few days where I was away.

Being a responsible leader, I decided this course of action was a lot better than wallowing in self-pity and hiding in shame.

Maybe one day you'll understand this, and maybe that will be the day when you can address an issue without dismissing those who disagree with you as "crybabies" or trying to ridicule someone for having to gall to show up, and instead actually contribute something meaningful.
[/quote]

We still love you Heft .

[Williambonney]

Seems someone still hasn't gotten the memo...

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=416447&Extended=1

[NoFish]

[quote name='Carfre Inpor' timestamp='1282856356' post='2432021']
noCB terms against NpO clearly stated that reparations had to be paid by the top 30 nations of Polaris. The reparations were exclusively tech...
[/quote]
Honestly, I think the only reason 1V/Q hadn't used a minimum tech benchmark when they were drafting terms is that no one had thought of it yet. The true crimes of that era weren't the terms absolutely (though wonder decoms have been judged too harsh for even GOD to require - think about [i]that[/i] for a while) but that they imposed them on alliances who in no way deserved it.

[SpoiL]

[quote name='William Bonney' timestamp='1282871706' post='2432225']
Seems someone still hasn't gotten the memo...

http://www.cybernations.net/search_wars.asp?search=416447&Extended=1
[/quote]

This calls for a curbstomp.

[Feuersturm]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1282872702' post='2432249']
This calls for a curbstomp.
[/quote]

A shame I don't have any aid slots open at the moment, because I'd give his targets abit of a boost, now that they are officially at peace.
Edit: Mainly because those wars were declared post-peace.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Feuersturm

[Evo]

My concern was-- Damn you guys were polluting the global environment, while i was saving money for Wonder.. thank god its over. Lol
Peace !!!

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282855004' post='2432002']
[color="#0000FF"]Being that they demanded tech from both the NPO and TOP, only payable by the top tier, both alliances are now at a permanent tech disadvantage. [/color]
[/quote]
We did not do this to TOP or any of the alliances we defeated. In fact, the direct reps can come from any nation in their alliances (and all of them have recruited small nations for this). The indirect reps are effectively cash, which nobody would say TOP doesn't have plenty of. Since the damage was done by TOP was enormous, I'd say the reps we gave them weren't too terrible (certainly not "draconian") and there are a lot of people who agree with me.

Besides that, NPO and TIFDTT actually [i]did bad things[/i] that they needed to pay for. Quite unlike: impersonating a guy on IRC, doing a tech deal with a P-ZI nation unknowingly, allowing a guy into your application process after the alliances that hate him approved it, raiding red, and so on and so on and so on. My alliance would never demand reps in a war we ourselves started. Comparing their reps with the reps with the reps GPA got or we got is ridiculous.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Sandwich Controversy

[Captain Flinders]

[quote name='Vol Navy' timestamp='1282853553' post='2431980']
There isn't any way possible to force any alliance to disband barring you get their log-in info and go and change their AA yourself. As FAN showed, it was all a matter of what you were willing to face to stay in your AA.
[/quote]
I never said anything about forcing an alliance to disband. You're avoiding my point. NSO were given terms. NPO were given terms. Peace talks were open for both nations. Alliances in the past (pretty much anything before Karma) were frequently not given any terms or peace talks. Does that mean those alliances are weaker willed or more pathetic than NPO or NSO? Not at all. It was a very different time and things like keeping alliances in war for the purpose of seeing them disband was really the norm and supported for the most part.

TPF got lucky that it wasn't the norm when their number was called.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1282902244' post='2432666']
Besides that, NPO and TIFDTT actually [i]did bad things[/i] that they needed to pay for.
[/quote]
So when you going after Sparta?

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282905470' post='2432678']
So when you going after Sparta?
[/quote]
In my view they've redeemed themselves but who knows?

[hizzy]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282855004' post='2432002']
While I hate to do this, I feel the need to. Understand that I am not discussing the NSO here, as we've received rather fair terms. However, MK and SF have requested harsher reps than the NPO ever did. Being that they demanded tech from both the NPO and TOP, only payable by the top tier, both alliances are now at a permanent tech disadvantage.
[/quote]

you're thinking of TOP/NPO's terms on Polaris after NoCB, actually.

[The MVP]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1282908306' post='2432691']
In my view they've redeemed themselves but who knows?
[/quote]

Absolving the sin of a sinners heart, how poetic.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1282908306' post='2432691']
In my view they've redeemed themselves but who knows?
[/quote]
Id love to know what it was they did thats comparable to a beatdown and huge reps and whether the same clean slate would have been given to the other alliances mentioned for following suit. Sparta continue to do things like demand reps for wars they entered aggressively. You(their friend these days) might have given them a clean slate without paying 1NS or $1 for past crimes, but they owe more than a pound of flesh to others.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282911419' post='2432715']
Id love to know what it was they did thats comparable to a beatdown and huge reps and whether the same clean slate would have been given to the other alliances mentioned for following suit. Sparta continue to do things like demand reps for wars they entered aggressively. You(their friend these days) might have given them a clean slate without paying 1NS or $1 for past crimes, but they owe more than a pound of flesh to others.
[/quote]
Whatever Sparta's done, it is in no way comparable to what NPO has. I am not aware of any huge reps that they've ever demanded (I could very well be wrong on this), and given Sparta's extremely poor military performance in many of their early wars, I'm not worried about any beatdowns they participated in.

That pound of flesh is a debt for them to collect on, not me.

[Alterego]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1282912482' post='2432722']
Whatever Sparta's done, it is in no way comparable to what NPO has. I am not aware of any huge reps that they've ever demanded (I could very well be wrong on this), and given Sparta's extremely poor military performance in many of their early wars, I'm not worried about any beatdowns they participated in.

That pound of flesh is a debt for them to collect on, not me.
[/quote]
So being crap fighters is the reason they are getting a clean slate? Taking part in all these "bad things" is ok as long as they are crap fighters. Incompetence in the excutuion of someones actions does not excuse their actions.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Alterego

[Daikos]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282913036' post='2432726']
So being crap fighters is the reason they are getting a clean slate? Taking part in all these "bad things" is ok as long as they are crap fighters. Incompetence does not excuse someones actions.
[/quote]

Having been beaton on by Sparta in their "Hegemonic" period (when Darkfall was still around) I can say we have fully moved on from it. You should try it sometime.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282913036' post='2432726']
So being crap fighters is the reason they are getting a clean slate? Taking part in all these "bad things" is ok as long as they are crap fighters. Incompetence in the excutuion of someones actions does not excuse their actions.
[/quote]
It means their crimes are barely crimes at all, and had an extremely minor effect. You like to make Sparta out to be followers, and indeed in every bad thing they did in that period they weren't the only ones doing it, and certainly not the instigators.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Sandwich Controversy

[Alterego]

[quote name='Sandwich Controversy' timestamp='1282913706' post='2432731']
It means their crimes are barely crimes at all, and had an extremely minor effect. You like to make Sparta out to be followers, and indeed in every bad thing they did in that period they weren't the only ones doing it, and certainly not the instigators.
[/quote]
Crime is crime, karma is karma, hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

[Sandwich Controversy]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282914135' post='2432733']
Crime is crime, karma is karma, hypocrisy is hypocrisy.
[/quote]
Well, yes. Sparta didn't get a clean slate from me just by sitting there. Their crimes were of a different level compared to those of others, and paid in their own way.

Edited August 27, 2010 by Sandwich Controversy

[Daikos]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282914135' post='2432733']
Crime is crime, karma is karma, hypocrisy is hypocrisy.
[/quote]

Yes. You are so right. There are certainly no degrees to these things.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1282852437' post='2431968']
My primary counter-point to this argument is the obvious OOC position, so I'll let Impero continue advocating on my behalf.
[/quote]

Meh, I have no desire to engage in a "yes it is, no it isn't" with Impero. Gets us no where, and in general in the past we have agreed more than we disagreed (particularly on the Gramlins issue), this just isn't one of those times.

[quote name='Liam Shepard' timestamp='1282861431' post='2432087']
Wow, this whole thread is like reading wiki-pedia entries mixed with the deep plot in a harlequin novel. Amazing. Simply.. Amazing. Anyhow, thanks for the nukes it was good times. Glad it's over.
[/quote]

/thread

Thanks for coming everyone, drive home safe.

[Louisa]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282714992' post='2430551']
[color="#0000FF"]The only thing we have said contradictory to the terms is that though we signed that statement, it is quite blatantly false. Of course we did still sign it, and I am sure RoK and friends will be sure to bring that up in the future (it is why they had us sign it after all), but as far as we're concerned it isn't the truth that happened.[/color]
[/quote]

Are you saying that you never surrendered? Your protean facts are rather amusing.



[color="#0000FF"]My frogmen successfully attached a explosive device below the waterline of your naval vessel.[/color] [img]http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r7/Louisa00/louisasith.gif[/img]

[Alterego]

[quote name='Daikos' timestamp='1282913183' post='2432728']
Having been beaton on by Sparta in their "Hegemonic" period (when Darkfall was still around) I can say we have fully moved on from it. You should try it sometime.
[/quote]
Karma pulled up years of history before and during the war. Karma remnents did something similar against TPF and used an ancient and rubbish CB. They set the precident that an alliance can be held accountable for anything they did at any time in their history and can be held accountable twice. Sparta have the longest unpunished criminal history in Bob and there is no statute of limitations for these crimes.

[quote name='Daikos' timestamp='1282914535' post='2432735']
Yes. You are so right. There are certainly no degrees to these things.
[/quote]

So said Karma. Sparta were in the inner circle, they werens some alliance on the fringe they were Q

Edited August 27, 2010 by Alterego

[the rebel]

[quote name='Alterego' timestamp='1282915106' post='2432738']
So said Karma. Sparta were in the inner circle, they werens some alliance on the fringe they were Q
[/quote]

Didnt you get the memo, those in Q that joined Karma's crusade were forgiven of past crimes

[Alterego]

[quote name='the rebel' timestamp='1282918030' post='2432767']
Didnt you get the memo, those in Q that joined Karma's crusade were forgiven of past crimes
[/quote]
Which is it, their backstabbing or their stupitidy (according to MK)that gave them a clean slate.