How difficult is it for new nations to catch up?

[Galneri]

Hi,

I was an active member of Cyber Nations (under a different name) until I left approximately 2 years ago for RL reasons, and recently I've been thinking of playing again. However, I realize that the dynamics of the game has been changing and it will not be easy for my new nation to rise to the level of my old one. Can someone fill me in on any significant additions and changes that have been made to the game since then, as well as changes to the standings/reputations of major alliances? Also, give me your honest opinion: how difficult is it nowadays for new nations to grow? Is there a chance for new nations to rise and catch up to the old ones, or do inequalities tend to become greater over time?

Thanks!

[supercoolyellow]

Before the latest war, tech deals were 3 mill /50 tech which would speed things up quite a bit. Also war helps in this regard quite a bit, you can just wait till the next big one knocks everyone down to your size, and hope your on the winning side.

[Delta1212]

The degree to which new players have the capability to catch up gets debated endlessly. If you do the research and manage your nation intelligently, you can be in the top ranks inside of a year, especially if you avoid a clobbering in the annual war.

As far as politics goes... Let's see, that would have been after UJW but before the Polar War, correct? In quick summary, NPO cancelled the Ordinance of Order and Continuum destroyed BLEU. Mushroom Kingdom and a number of its close allies formed a bloc called the Complaints and Greivances Union that got smashed along with Polaris. Continuum and One Vision were dismantled in the Karma War a year ago and NPO got trounced but survived. Citadel collapsed a couple months ago with its constituent members splitting up onto different sides of the rough divide that was formed in the Karma War. We just finished up a war that split along those lines with a few changes such as NPO sitting out while still under surrender terms and TOP siding with the other side. The Superfriends is currently the strongest bloc followed by C&G, though even combined they are less than half the size Continuum was a year ago.

At the moment, the world is split between two general sides. One side is mostly centered around SF, C&G and Polar with all their respective allies. The other side is less strongly tied together, but has most of Purple, CDT, a good chunk of Orange except for R&R, FOK and a couple allies, TPF, TOOL, and really yeah. You should take a look at the MDP Web. It's now modeled in 3D by a program you can download from this wiki page: http://cybernations.wikia.com/wiki/MDP_web

The closer alliances are in the model, the more (roughly) aligned they are likely to be politically.

[Baldr]

Delta1212, that was an awesome post. You win 3 internets.

[Galneri]

Yes, that was very informative! Thank you Delta1212.

Anyone else have thoughts about the ability of new nations to catch up? This is probably the most important factor as to whether I will decide to stay or not.

Also, since economic development will be my top priority if I choose to play, which trading sphere(s) would you recommend? I remember blue being number one around the time when I left, but that may have changed with the demise of BLEU.

[Delta1212]

The top three are Black, Blue and Aqua. Really, the best way to get trades is through an alliance. If you have the time and inclination, temp trading is the best way to grow quickly, in which case I would probably recommend Aqua, though pretty much any team would do as long as you don't go to Pink.

How large was your first nation if I might ask?

Edited April 9, 2010 by Delta1212

[Baldr]

If your goal is to be the #1 nation with the most NS, then I wouldn't expect you to have much luck. That would require years of building your nation, and since they can still build their nation, even then you wouldn't catch up unless they end up going to war and you don't.

But I really don't see that as important. I've played for over 2 years. I've never been one of the top nations, and I never expect to be. In fact, I wouldn't even want to *try* to be one of the largest, because to do that, you have to avoid war. It's hard to grow if you spend a lot of money in a war, then have to rebuild after the war, and for me, the war is part of the fun.

I suppose it depends on what you want out of the game.

[King Wally]

I don't think its too hard to get up to speed.. ive been playing a year and I certainly feel like I can compete decently. If you get serious for 6 months you should have a decent nation that can stand up during the next war etc. Many alliances also have growth programs that can help you speed things up. As you could imagine with so many larger bank nations these days getting tech deals and aid if needed isn't to hard if your active in your alliance.

[King Irwin]

If you're serious about growth, there are several things working in your favor, compared to how the current top nations have had to grow in the past.

1) Aid is cheap nowadays. It's easy to get aid from your alliance if you are active and contribute.
2) Tech prices have risen. When I was selling years ago, it was $3M/150.
3) ~half of the rulers in CN don't know how or don't care to grow their nations effectively. If you put forth reasonable effort, I estimate you can be an average size nation in half a year or less.
4) At the very top, nations have no incentive to keep buying infrastructure b/c it is not profitable.
5) At the very top, nations cannot buy any more wonders.

If you want to be a decent size nation and you follow that goal intelligently, it can happen reasonably quickly. If you want to be at or near the very top, it will take many years. The fact is that everyone else is growing too, so your only chance is to stay out of wars and let everyone else get beaten down. I don't think anyone should realistically expect to ever reach the top if they are starting now, but there are many other reasons to play than that. It's highly unlikely that I'll ever reach the top, and I've been in the top 5% for well over 2 years (but it only took 9 months to get that far).

Edited April 9, 2010 by King Irwin

[Masonic Handles]

If I could say something. I've been playing this game for aboutr a year now and my nation has grown quite efficently. However due to the wars I recently lost a lot of my progress. However i managed a rough 156 effienct lvl for the first 8 months of playing. Then the war came.

If you wanna check out my nation here it is http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_display.asp?Nation_ID=324750 I also did receive 3mil 50 tech deals, so that was also a big help

[New Carnoly]

they r a big help, i just wish i could get one.

[Prime minister Johns]

It is moderately difficult to get a mid range nation and next to impossible to join the big league.

[R3nowned]

You could reach 4k infra - the level which you can start aiding others with little harm to yourself, in around 2-3 months. You can build a pretty decent nation (30-40k NS) in 6 months if you're active enough with your nation. It's easier now, to catch up, especially with a huge number of nations still rebuilding from the last war, or even the war before that.

[Xyro Gravi Flatona]

I agree with a lot of the points here. With my own nation, I reached 3999 infra within 90 days, but it took work. Lots of management. If you manage your nation in conjunction with joining a reputable alliance, you will pass other players who created the same time you did. If you keep up with your nation on a constant basis, without any lapses, you will pass other nations who created before you.

I do want to point out though that once you become a tech buyer, it's crucial that you begin saving a war chest. Instead of blowing your reserves to purchase infra on each collection, save some of it. But don't stop buying infra altogether. Some of the wonders that you should own can't be obtained until you reach a high level of infra.

Keep the aid slots full.... constantly. If you can find buyers who will pay 3mil for only 50 tech, do so. Myself, I still have no problem finding sellers who will do 3m/50/50 deals. I imagine that you won't have any problem getting 100 tech for your 3mil once you become a buyer also.

Some teams have a central forum that deals with the formation of trade rings and provide a central place to find tech deals. Seek out such forums once you do create and select your team.

I'm not going to name any names, but there are more than enough alliances to join. Some of these never get into war. If you are seeking maximum nation growth without the slowdown of war, seek out such an alliance. If you don't mind war, then there are more than enough reputable alliances out there to fit the bill. Most of which offer growth programs.

Don't let the fact that there are very large nations get in the way of your decision to join or not join. We want you here, in the game.

Kind regards from,
XGF

[OTTOTTO]

HI, I was at 4K infra after 4 months, got to 7K after 8 months and to 8K after 12 months. Now it is beginning to get tougher, since the improvements are all there and wonders come only once a month. Also warchest needed. I am now after 20 months at 11500 K and I am approaching the top 1 % of the nations. It is quite tough and i guess, that I should be one of the fastest with full aid slots all the time during buying and selling tech. I also bought my first wonder after 4 months. I participated also in 2 wars with heavy involvement in one war and little involvement in the last war.

[Noob Cake]

[quote name='OTTOTTO' date='07 May 2010 - 12:30 PM' timestamp='1273249816' post='2290330']
HI, I was at 4K infra after 4 months, got to 7K after 8 months and to 8K after 12 months. Now it is beginning to get tougher, since the improvements are all there and wonders come only once a month. Also warchest needed. I am now after 20 months at 11500 K and I am approaching the top 1 % of the nations. It is quite tough and i guess, that I should be one of the fastest with full aid slots all the time during buying and selling tech. I also bought my first wonder after 4 months. I participated also in 2 wars with heavy involvement in one war and little involvement in the last war.
[/quote]

Christ, 100k 8k tech nation in 600 days. That is amazing.

[KingEd]

Currently we have grown some of our members to 4999.99 Infra / 1000 Tech in a matter of 90-100 days, with either a Stock Market or SSS as their first wonder. If your smart about doing tech-deals at full efficiency and getting Aid from your alliance (also getting a good trade circle and do your first backlogs correctly, you can grow in no time).

[iMatt]

I'll add a quick point. If you're serious about growing in the long term, you will want to start your wonder buying as soon as is feasible and *never* stop buying wonders. I got my first wonder at ~35 days, and although it might slow me down initially compared to those who pour everything into infra, in the long run you'll "always" have 1-2 more wonders than someone who created at the same time you did.

My stats (at 58 days now):

3,350 infra
50 tech (still selling tech)
1 wonder (2 in 10 days time)

[Sadizo]

^ That's [s]great[/s] outstanding for a nation of your nation's age. Back-collecting got you there?
Anyway, to the topic.

Growing can't possibly be too hard, tech deals and aid from your alliance should get you enough money to start buying your first few improvements like, Foreign Ministries, harbors, banks and stadiums. After a while with improvements like that you should have some decent trades going on to get you a few bonus resources that you want. Soon you should be up to BC (Back Collecting) standards which will give you a good amount of money and citizens in the end. Another good tip, try to stay away from major wars: getting involved with just one enemy nations can bring on two more to fill up your war slots, take your tech, money and your infrastructure and beat you down into anarchy. Also, lots of alliances have programs that help smaller nations grow quite fast.

[Sephiroth]

About Libertarian Empire:
An Empire built upon Libertarian Principles.

Libertarian Empire is a medium sized, developing, and ancient nation at 975 days old with citizens primarily of Norwegian ethnicity who follow no religion. Its technology is first rate and its citizens marvel at the astonishing advancements within their nation. Its citizens enjoy freedom from high taxation and as a result tend to earn more money. The citizens of Libertarian Empire work diligently to produce Iron and Spices as tradable resources for their nation. It is an aggressive country that some say has an itch for war. It believes nuclear weapons are necessary for the security of its people. The Libertarian Empire nation leaders are aware of the situation of drug use in the country but are too addicted to drugs themselves to do anything about it. Libertarian Empire allows its citizens to openly protest their government, even if it means violence. It welcomes all new immigrants with open borders. Libertarian Empire believes in the freedom of speech and feels that it is every citizen's right to speak freely about their government. The government gives whatever is necessary to help others out in times of crisis, even if it means hurting its own economy. Libertarian Empire will trade with other nations with questionable ethical treatment of their citizens but prefers to keep such trade agreements a secret.

Government Type:

Anarchy - Your citizens are rioting in the streets of your nation. They wish to be ruled by a royal family.
Population Happiness: [Your population is in love with you.]

You have a small chance of catching up, but it really depends what your trying to catch up in.

[Xyro Gravi Flatona]

[quote name='iMatt' date='08 May 2010 - 10:25 AM' timestamp='1273332284' post='2291327']
I'll add a quick point. If you're serious about growing in the long term, you will want to start your wonder buying as soon as is feasible and *never* stop buying wonders. I got my first wonder at ~35 days, and although it might slow me down initially compared to those who pour everything into infra, in the long run you'll "always" have 1-2 more wonders than someone who created at the same time you did.

My stats (at 58 days now):

3,350 infra
50 tech (still selling tech)
1 wonder (2 in 10 days time)
[/quote]

Good deal sir. Nice to see a nation take that initiative, you will reap the rewards of your labor ahead of your peers.

To those wondering about when to start buying wonders, 3999 infra is a general rule of transisiton for wonder purchase and tech buying. Lately, it's been told to new nations that they should wait on these things. Don't cater to the wills of those bigger than you. Actually, become big yourself. The only way to do it is buy tech. Stop debating if it's time, and just do it.

From,
XGF

[rrkilledme]

With all the nations that were beat up in the last war buying tech like bunnies, getting a decent NS isn't difficult nowadays. I'm a similar situation- I joined about 2 months ago after a year-and-a-half break beginning right after C&G surrendered to NPO in the BLEU War. Now I'm at 1k so I'm going a little slow, but if you get a good trade set early on you won't have to deal with what I'm dealing with right now.

Edited May 9, 2010 by rrkilledme

[Choader]

[quote name='Noob Cake' date='07 May 2010 - 02:06 PM' timestamp='1273266379' post='2290599']
Christ, 100k 8k tech nation in 600 days. That is amazing.
[/quote]
It's doable, I was in the top 200 within 2 years and was ~115k NS with 9k tech before the NpO-\m/ war, which would have put my nation at just over 600 days. A new player today who grows efficiently and constantly buys tech should be able get into the top 500 without donations within a couple years.