The New Grämlins

[NoFish]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='19 May 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1274303171' post='2303687']
More like you are locked in the trunk while a mad man takes the wheel.

MHA is trapped by Gre, this is why you don't do crazy things like year long cancellation clauses or never ending treaties. Because sooner or later the people who you loved go away, or are less active in politics, and the reasons for your trust and brotherhood vanish, but you are still stuck with deep commitments to people you no longer know.
[/quote]

You don't love us any more? ;A;

[Iamrecognized]

[quote name='Ojiras Ajeridas' date='19 May 2010 - 01:34 PM' timestamp='1274301275' post='2303656']
I think this is a quite natural behaviour by a long time ally. The only thing that would concern me is that the people not following Ramirus' path don't try to turn the alliance around but simply leave that alliance. gRAMlins is down on 35 members now, and I do have serious doubts that there is still somebody left willing to stand up against Ramirus actions inside gRAMlins. So, I think MHA should realize that gRAMlins will be lead for a long time by Ram.... and if you don't agree with him, you should realize that it will be a long time that MHA won't agree with gRAMlins. And that's not a very good thing between allies. In my opinion, the only possibility for gRAMlins to survive this is a turnaround. Just to finish this strange thing. At the moment I just don't see it happen. And I don't see it happen in the next future.
[/quote]

And we have the same concerns.

I honestly don't expect a change. I think they will continue to lose members until there is nothing left, and I expect that to happen rather quickly.

[bigwoody]

[quote name='Feanor Noldorin' date='19 May 2010 - 12:43 PM' timestamp='1274290990' post='2303502']
The decision was made as a collective group (Duckroll/TOP/TSO). We just get the blame. Which we have no problems shouldering.
[/quote]
Yep, we all made the decision as a group. It was coming in to support IRON, and TOP's idea originally, but we made the decision together. I would not say IRON, TOP, or anyone else forced anyone in the group to do anything.

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='NoFish' date='19 May 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1274322859' post='2304061']
You don't love us any more? ;A;
[/quote]

You still got Xhip, we good.

[Coursca]

[quote name='caligula' date='19 May 2010 - 04:03 PM' timestamp='1274299368' post='2303613']
As brothers though, we're not going to let them be fed to the wolves over one man's action.
[/quote]

Its not just Ramirus, caligula. Its the members of that alliance which continue to support Ramirus by remaining there -- Ertyy, Matthew PK, etc.

This isn't just one man. Its the whole show. Wake up! -- reality's calling.

[wenwillthisend]

[quote name='Ojiras Ajeridas' date='20 May 2010 - 06:34 AM' timestamp='1274301275' post='2303656']
I think this is a quite natural behaviour by a long time ally. The only thing that would concern me is that the people not following Ramirus' path don't try to turn the alliance around but simply leave that alliance. gRAMlins is down on 35 members now, and I do have serious doubts that there is still somebody left willing to stand up against Ramirus actions inside gRAMlins. So, I think MHA should realize that gRAMlins will be lead for a long time by Ram.... and if you don't agree with him, you should realize that it will be a long time that MHA won't agree with gRAMlins. And that's not a very good thing between allies. In my opinion, the only possibility for gRAMlins to survive this is a turnaround. Just to finish this strange thing. At the moment I just don't see it happen. And I don't see it happen in the next future.
[/quote]


The people that oppose Ram have left the alliance. There is no-one left in Gre that opposes him, they are all his puppets now.
At the last election more members stood up and said no more but it was not enough. Gre is doomed

[Geoffron X]

[quote name='wenwillthisend' date='20 May 2010 - 12:32 PM' timestamp='1274373139' post='2305283']
The people that oppose Ram have left the alliance. There is no-one left in Gre that opposes him, they are all his puppets now.
At the last election more members stood up and said no more but it was not enough. Gre is doomed
[/quote]
Your name is appropriate to the situation. Do you get that a lot?

[scutterbug]

To quote a latest post in our wonderful Gre embassy from Mad Mike current Conclave member of Gre.

"i do not believe that is the case.

i do believe that the spirit of HA was to basically make gre"mlins and mha members basically one though we have our our sovereignty. each of our boards reflect that stance, mha members have a gremlilns member mask and the same goes for gre members on mha boards.

though we may not completely agree on everything, we are basically like husband and wife. We are separate individually and will have our differences but we have to support each other, esp for the kids, lol. A god marriage will be rocky at times but the public would be none the wiser since in public we would put on our happy face and be good to each other."

Our own brothers want us to pretend things are ok. LOL seriously Ramirus is this the type of rubbish you tell your membership to say to ours?

Ramlins can get stuffed i will say it again. Quit feeding the BS to your members who try to feed it onto ours.

Edited May 21, 2010 by scutterbug

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='21 May 2010 - 12:44 PM' timestamp='1274471039' post='2307177']
To quote a latest post in our wonderful Gre embassy from Mad Mike current Conclave member of Gre.

"i do not believe that is the case.

i do believe that the spirit of HA was to basically make gre"mlins and mha members basically one though we have our our sovereignty. each of our boards reflect that stance, mha members have a gremlilns member mask and the same goes for gre members on mha boards.

though we may not completely agree on everything, we are basically like husband and wife. We are separate individually and will have our differences but we have to support each other, esp for the kids, lol. A god marriage will be rocky at times but the public would be none the wiser since in public we would put on our happy face and be good to each other."

Our own brothers want us to pretend things are ok. LOL seriously Ramirus is this the type of rubbish you tell your membership to say to ours?

Ramlins can get stuffed i will say it again. Quit feeding the BS to your members who try to feed it onto ours.
[/quote]


Nice job deliberately choosing one post to make a jab and ignoring the general point of the discussion.
Also, nice job leaking contents of private forums.
Much love, scutter.

[scutterbug]

Our embassies are not private. Yours was merely passworded because our Minister of FA decided to try and hide our dirty laundry. I didnt agree with that move and still dont. You wanna try and crap all over us fine. But i wont help you in hiding it behind closed doors Matthew.

Edit:

I will also add it was passworded without any Ramlin request. So to then come and complain when you didn't even request it go private is rich. Go cry a river elsewhere matthew.

Edited May 21, 2010 by scutterbug

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='21 May 2010 - 12:51 PM' timestamp='1274471468' post='2307181']
Our embassies are not private. Yours was merely passworded because our Minister of FA decided to try and hide our dirty laundry. I didnt agree with that move and still dont. You wanna try and crap all over us fine. But i wont help you in hiding it behind closed doors Matthew.

Edit:

I will also add it was passworded without any Ramlin request. So to then come and complain when you didn't even request it go private is rich. Go cry a river elsewhere matthew.
[/quote]

Who's crying?
I'm simply making a point.

If you don't like the password take it up with your FA minister.
However, [b]because[/b] it was passworded you know that sensitive issues were discussed (but how can that be? According to this thread GRE doesn't discuss anything at all with MHA or any of our friends?!)

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='21 May 2010 - 09:05 PM' timestamp='1274472298' post='2307190']
Who's crying?
I'm simply making a point.

If you don't like the password take it up with your FA minister.
However, [b]because[/b] it was passworded you know that sensitive issues were discussed (but how can that be? According to this thread GRE doesn't discuss anything at all with MHA or any of our friends?!)
[/quote]

If by sensitive you mean. Posts containing pretty much the same contents as the ones your making here yeah sure thats real sensitive. Seriously try better.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='21 May 2010 - 01:08 PM' timestamp='1274472477' post='2307191']
If by sensitive you mean. Posts containing pretty much the same contents as the ones your making here yeah sure thats real sensitive. Seriously try better.
[/quote]


Try?
I don't need to try anything. You've already made it quite clear to everybody that you actively want GRE destroyed.
I'm sorry you feel that way; it's just a shame to see you degrade yourself by deliberately misrepresenting the character of our discussion.

[RustyNail]

No one wants Gre destroyed, that's the whole point of all of this. We want them to grow up and stop acting like a 3 year old throwing a tantrum demanding they get their way because they think they should, even if it's not right. Well, sometimes you have to teach a 3 year old lessons so they learn boundaries. It's called a parent-child relationship in psychological terminology...but I never thought that Gre would need to be taught such lessons.

[Bob Janova]

The only people who want Grämlins destroyed, apparently, are those within Grämlins who are persisting in a course of action which will see them destroyed.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='21 May 2010 - 02:24 PM' timestamp='1274477044' post='2307266']
The only people who want Grämlins destroyed, apparently, are those within Grämlins who are persisting in a course of action which will see them destroyed.
[/quote]


Bob, you can kindly admit that you don't know what you're talking about here.

Scutter has been pretty outspoken on forums and IRC about this matter.
(And when I was talking to Scutter, I said "you" "scutter" not "you" "Planet Bob", sorry for any confusion)

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='21 May 2010 - 10:38 PM' timestamp='1274477908' post='2307282']
Bob, you can kindly admit that you don't know what you're talking about here.

Scutter has been pretty outspoken on forums and IRC about this matter.
(And when I was talking to Scutter, I said "you" "scutter" not "you" "Planet Bob", sorry for any confusion)
[/quote]

Actually bobs rather right on this one.

Come on matthew whats the drop in member count now due to people getting fed up of your rubbish and letting themselves delete from inactivity?

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='scutterbug' date='21 May 2010 - 02:50 PM' timestamp='1274478636' post='2307295']
Actually bobs rather right on this one.

Come on matthew whats the drop in member count now due to people getting fed up of your rubbish and letting themselves delete from inactivity?
[/quote]


Ok, from now on I'll just take everything you say as a big metaphor?

[Bob Janova]

My mistake
[quote][23:03] <BobJanova{away}> do you want to see Grämlins destroyed?
[23:03] <ScutterBug> yes[/quote]
The only people wanting that are those making the decisions in Grämlins these days, and Scutterbug

[scutterbug]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='21 May 2010 - 11:04 PM' timestamp='1274479464' post='2307309']
My mistake

The only people wanting that are those making the decisions in Grämlins these days, and Scutterbug
[/quote]

Please bob quote me fully next time

<+BobJanova{away}> do you want to see Grämlins destroyed?
<+ScutterBug> yes
<+ScutterBug> i can be quoted in many places
<+ScutterBug> saying such a thing
<+ScutterBug> well actually no
<+ScutterBug> because i say
<+ScutterBug> i want ramlins destroyed
<@Matthew_PK[GRE]> bazing!
<+ScutterBug> i have never slandered the sacred name of gramlins

[SynthFG]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='21 May 2010 - 10:24 PM' timestamp='1274477044' post='2307266']
The only people who want Grämlins destroyed, apparently, are those within Grämlins who are persisting in a course of action which will see them destroyed.
[/quote]
Grämlins has fallen, there is nothing left but the ego and those blindly following it,
Take the FH and the banks out of the equation and there is not enough left to even think about rebuilding a community

Were they facing anything like a competent opponent or if those bleating in this thread had the balls to back their words by I don't know temporarily joining IRON this would have been over weeks ago

Its way past time for the Gre Dark Council to perform its final constitutional duty

[Derantol]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='21 May 2010 - 03:33 PM' timestamp='1274481216' post='2307343']
Grämlins has fallen, there is nothing left but the ego and those blindly following it,
Take the FH and the banks out of the equation and there is not enough left to even think about rebuilding a community

Were they facing anything like a competent opponent or if those bleating in this thread had the balls to back their words by I don't know temporarily joining IRON this would have been over weeks ago

Its way past time for the Gre Dark Council to perform its final constitutional duty
[/quote]

Really? Competent opponent? It's not as if we had already had the crap beaten out of us. It's not like that hasn't been discussed at least once during this thread. We're doing exactly what we can do, but there's a difference between not being willing to do something and literally not being able to. At this moment in time we have one nation over 100k. One. Gramlins has eight. We literally *can't* win this war in a straight shoot-out.

Also, it won't be over till one side accepts surrender, and Gramlins has made it clear that despite halving their membership (which, regardless of the reasons, seriously impairs an alliance's ability to fight), they aren't going to surrender. We've also made it clear that we aren't going to submit to their demands; they aren't changing their demands. This war wouldn't have been over weeks ago unless there are some hidden conditions for "pull back, let's try this again later" for either side.

[ChairmanHal]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='21 May 2010 - 06:33 PM' timestamp='1274481216' post='2307343']
Were they facing anything like a competent opponent or if those bleating in this thread had the balls to back their words by I don't know temporarily joining IRON this would have been over weeks ago
[/quote]

From your remarks, if I didn't know better, I'd swear you'd love it if war-weary, depleted nations with not much warchest left did a massive banzai charge to finish Gramlins, after which you'd promptly hand them the bill for the first of the reparations payments you'll insist they start paying promptly.

Here's an idea...want the money faster? Take Gramlins out yourself. As you say, they should disband anyway.

[JimKongIl]

I have no wish to see the Gramlins destroyed. Its just time to give IRON peace. An eye for an eye plus reps should be enough. Attacks are a part of the game, not a crime. They happen every day and without them there would be no game. If someone hits you, you hit them back harder then you move on. I think if a precedent like this is set it will have detrimental impact on the game.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Derantol' date='21 May 2010 - 07:17 PM' timestamp='1274483829' post='2307391']
Really? Competent opponent? It's not as if we had already had the crap beaten out of us. It's not like that hasn't been discussed at least once during this thread. We're doing exactly what we can do, but there's a difference between not being willing to do something and literally not being able to. At this moment in time we have one nation over 100k. One. Gramlins has eight. We literally *can't* win this war in a straight shoot-out.

Also, it won't be over till one side accepts surrender, and Gramlins has made it clear that despite halving their membership (which, regardless of the reasons, seriously impairs an alliance's ability to fight), they aren't going to surrender. We've also made it clear that we aren't going to submit to their demands; they aren't changing their demands. This war wouldn't have been over weeks ago unless there are some hidden conditions for "pull back, let's try this again later" for either side.
[/quote]

Really. Competent opponent. Which you really aren't. He's right. This could have -- and should have -- been over weeks ago. But instead you continue to whine here rather than doing something to end it.