Unimportant Announcement

[Craig]

[quote name='Mr Damsky' date='21 February 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1266811084' post='2196045']
Well of course it could have been worse. They could have given you a viceroy, twenty billion in reps, and made you decom your MHPs. They didn't obviously but that doesn't make the reps fair.
[/quote]
What's an MHP?

And good to see peace, the reps aren't too bad.

[Lord Fingolfin]

Wilhelm is actually a King of Sparta, equal to Tulak

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='Craig' date='22 February 2010 - 08:38 AM' timestamp='1266827918' post='2196993']
What's an MHP?

And good to see peace, the reps aren't too bad.
[/quote]


I am guessing he means ManHattan Projects, tho you can't decom those so...

[thaisport]

I am not one to comment much in CNse and I am more a TE person. That being said, this is my general observation of this matter:

[b]1)[/b] Misunderstanding in communication in anything can lead to dire results. In this case it was a failed white peace talk, followed by middle gov's attempt at restarting peace process being shot down by upper gov in Legion. Now Legion has surrendered.

There's only so many times you get told "no peace" before that train leaves the station.

[b]2)[/b] My interactions with Legion members I have been in contact with has been nothing short of mutual respect for each other. It amazes me how many people on all sides of the pond like to stir up the pot and play the blame game win or lose.

-> Allies of both sides will always be bias towards their side
-> Leadership on all sides should always be held accountable and responsible for their actions, their members, and what happens to their respective alliance.

[b]3)[/b] Not that my asking anything means much but I sincerely wish both sides will put an end to the bickering, shake hands, accept the terms leadership as agreed to, move on and grow stronger.

[b]4)[/b] I believe Legion has a lot of hard thinking ahead of them. Their members and leadership need to figure out what is best for their alliance and works towards that and their allies should be supportive.

[b]5)[/b] In so many words both sides should treat each other with respect and focus their energies toward rebuilding their alliances.

[i][b]
I wish all sides a speedy recovery and best wishes. My respects to all those that fought hard on both sides. Your dedication to your alliance is what defines not only you but your alliance as well.[/b][/i]

Edited February 22, 2010 by thaisport

[Hyperion321]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='22 February 2010 - 08:30 AM' timestamp='1266827444' post='2196986']
Does Sparta's Govt share the same assessment of this member of Sparta?
[/quote]
Wilhelm is our King.

[shilo]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='22 February 2010 - 08:40 AM' timestamp='1266824409' post='2196887']
No, the reparations were re-instated because they were rude.
[/quote]


[quote name='shahenshah' date='22 February 2010 - 09:30 AM' timestamp='1266827444' post='2196986']
Does Sparta's Govt share the same assessment of this member of Sparta?
[/quote]

Ok, as he is their king, that answers that...

Well, let's hope no one else was rude to anyone around here, I see chances for peace getting slimmer by the minute...

Edited February 22, 2010 by shilo

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='LiquidMercury' date='22 February 2010 - 03:15 AM' timestamp='1266826511' post='2196964']
As I said, I do not recall any other interactions with you other then the last two days and I am not attempting to smear you or anything of the like. I apologize if you feel that is the case.

As far as the LW scenario goes here's the tl:dr of it all:
How LW managed ACF during the Karma war and went about on tirades of wanting to demand reps for very very minimal engagement, as well as continuously trying to remind anyone that would listen to him that "he was his own boss" and that I/Archon were not his viceroy etc. when it was stated well in advance that we had no intention of acting as such, got tiresome and old. Out of the multitude of alliances and people that I spoke with/dealt with on a consistent level during the Karma war, it took quite a bit for me to actually be irritated enough to remember someone from an alliance I was not allied to/wasn't a pre-existing major alliance (see micro-alliance level). This is my issue with LW. Every instance thereafter in my dealings with him has been of an ill nature and childish in my eyes. This is coming from someone who generally leaves things as it is and doesn't hold grudges (I mean heck, I'm admin on the ex-hegemony boards now and I actually helped GGA/TPF/Echelon/MCXA/IRON and various other parties plan wars on their side when I just came from blowing them all up).

As far as your "throwing your allies under the bus" bit, well no. Amazingly enough, what you speak of has indeed happened in the past so it would not be without precedence. "Waiving of reps" post-signing of peace has happened countless times and amazingly, always leads to positive PR for the alliance waiving the reps.

Heiarchy of reps in regards to positive PR

5. NPO reps (bad bottom tier never do)
4. Bogus reps (monetary only)
3. Bogus reps followed by a waive of reps
2. Paying for reps i.e. tech deals
1. White peace

3 and 2 could be considered interchangeable depending on the audience.

Since I do not forsee you changing your mind by this (especially after my explanation of the events during Karma which generated so much ill will towards LW, which you will undoubtedly see as a smear campaign by me) I shal leave this with simply those thoughts as I have presented, wishing you the best of luck in any future decisions you have that could be beneficial to all. Adieu.
[/quote]

Funny, I seem to recall Karma being involved with me at my first time running an alliance during a major conflict and me moreso asking my allies and friends what about reps and that if some of them wanted reps then we should get them...

Funny, you were somehow FORCING my decision even though you were not even a member of my alliance. I found that the best part, just because you are a leader of some war coalition doesn't give you the right to make my decision for me before I've even had the time to think about anything.

You coming in here posting about the past in this manner trying to make me look bad is pathetic at best. I invite you to find out the truth in all this manner. Maybe then you'll still be just as interested to act like you're the owner of everything that is Bob. That's where my issue stems with you and always have, you have some sort of self entitlement to being better than everyone else. Get off your high horse.

Also, I'm sick of this stupid arguing, Thrawn, if they don't agree then they never likely will. Just like we don't agreement with some of the situations at hand.

Give me a war with someone else next time, I was prepared to go white peace every single second of this war up until the point that this thing went supernova over denying it to stay in and I told them our offer was over (this was not day one, it was at the tail end of the first round of everyone war)

I don't care if you guys don't like how I did things this time, none of you apparently know me who instantly throw me under the bus and I'm used to that.

All I know is that this new CN world is getting better and better as people like LM stop holding so much power who think that they can play the game in control of everyone like we're little puppets on their strings. I quite enjoy my allies now who at least respect me enough not to try stunts like that, there is a reason so many people dislike you LM, I found out I'm not the only one who has issues with how you conduct things and you coming in here bringing up my actions as a rookie leader in which I ultimately did nothing wrong is amusing.

I invite everyone here to take me up on my offer of talking privately, because if you had any shred of decency in you then you'd be capable of debating this in private with me rather than taking shots from the safety and comfort of your world podium here and knowing no matter what I say there will be the mindless masses who come in that don't care what the topic is about and they will decry the situation as unfair or will hail the situation as a victory for someone. Get a clue.

[kevin32891]

Should have been white peace but whatev.
o/ Purple

[Cyphon88]

Well that's that. What’s next?

Legionarries, I'm offering lessons on proper banter if you wish to take it up. You fought well, but I was disappointed with the response to my PMs for lulz though. Wars need banter, like I need..... erm..... things!

LF, and a few others in here, your conduct here was exemplary, I applaud you for that. Have fun rebuilding. I'll take the statue of me, as per our reps secret term, built on Tom the Pit Leader's warren, with rabbits bowing down to me, and it facing to the east and west (yes I'm two faced, just call me Loki I guess).

Edited February 22, 2010 by Cyphon88

[PrideAssassin]

Reps, meh.
Props to the folks paying for the tech, to the rest, meh again.

Good luck Legion. Rebuild swiftly.
I am assuming you may keep your military levels and defend yourself?
Those Karma guys are pretty poor at defending people under their protection. One bright spot, I suppose.

[DeathAdder]

How typical. E-Warriors whining about things they're not even involved in. How cute is the invention of the internet, seriously? (note my sarcasm).

Legion.. Good luck with your peace and rebuilding. I fought a couple of good opponents during the War, to them, I salute you for the mutual decisions we made to not surrender to one another, and to continue fighting. I will not trash those who have shown honor in combat.

This war was pretty stupid, in my own opinion. And I also seem to remember my alliance jumping in to help her Allies, too. That kinda kills the argument of "Legion shouldn't have to pay reps because they were defending Allies". Sparta shouldn't have to scroll through pages of whines from people who aren't even involved in order to get to the end of the forums to make a reply. However, in my time on internet gaming sites, I find more people get more amusement over crying when things don't go their way more than they enjoy playing the actual game itself. It is this point where you need to ask yourself; "Why don't I have a life? Why do I get upset over fake things on the internet." This pondering could be life-changing to some.

Reparations or not, the aggressors of this war will feel the Wrath of Sparta, and all the whining only strengthens the resolve of my brethren within the Alliance.

Doxa Sparta!

[Haflinger]

Still trying to pass MHA, Sparta?

Good to see Legion at peace.

[PrideAssassin]

Bring it son. I have plenty of room to host foreign visitors on my soil. All I've got is a bunch of crickets where Spartans should be.

[DeathAdder]

Really Pride? Last I looked most of your Alliance was in Anarchy, or at least the ones not hiding in peace. Perhaps that's why you've only got Crickets and not Spartans. Sadly they won't let us attack nations who can't properly defend themselves. I mean, God forbid the opponent might actually gain much more numbers and really beat the defender down. It might be actual War then.

[PrideAssassin]

No anarchy on my front. You're not helping the people you claim to be defending out when you let a little rascal like me smash through their ranks unchecked. I already laughed off six of your weenie nukes, and ganked that guy for his paltry warchest on top of it.
This isn't about me though.

I've said my piece.
I'm happy my friends in The Legion have found peace.

Edited February 22, 2010 by PrideAssassin

[DeathAdder]

For it not to be about you, almost every post I've seen made by you, has included something about you. I think you lie, sir.

But at any point, I'll let you continue to stroke your e-ego to make yourself feel big.

As I said in my first post, Good luck Legion, hopefully the future fares better for my former Alliance. I wish you guys nothing but the best, sincerely.

[PrideAssassin]

They are a great bunch.
o/ Legion!

[Kortal]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='22 February 2010 - 02:20 AM' timestamp='1266823257' post='2196834']
Reputation damage is not always immediately obvious, look at the NPO. up until the declaration of the Karma war they had all the outward signs of a well respected alliance, but that all changed overnight.
[/quote]
Michael J. Fox: SPARTA!! I've something to tell you!!
Sparta: WHAT?!?
Michael J. Fox: Its about your future!!
Sparta: What!!?
Michael J. Fox: On the night I go back...your reputation amongst other CN alliances...its damaged!!

[DeathAdder]

[quote name='PrideAssassin' date='22 February 2010 - 08:22 AM' timestamp='1266844949' post='2197164']
They are a great bunch.
o/ Legion!
[/quote]

Yeah, they were quite helpful when I was still a total newb and didn't know what was what. It was good times with them. Good times in Sparta, too, though. It'd be a honestly difficult decision to pick a favorite between the two, at least for me. I'm sure there's 100,000 other users who could make up their minds in a second, with the help of being biased of course~

[PrideAssassin]

[quote name='DeathAdder' date='22 February 2010 - 05:31 AM' timestamp='1266845513' post='2197174']
Yeah, they were quite helpful when I was still a total newb and didn't know what was what. It was good times with them. Good times in Sparta, too, though. It'd be a honestly difficult decision to pick a favorite between the two, at least for me. I'm sure there's 100,000 other users who could make up their minds in a second, with the help of being biased of course~
[/quote]
I like fighting Sparta.
The vast majority of your nations are great fun to war with. You have that going for you at least.
King Louis the II is funny as hell. Hang on to that feller with an iron grip.

[Rush Sykes]

You know, I thoroughly enjoyed reading all of this thread. Congrats on peace Sparta, much love to you all.

When negotiating peace, it is a reasonable assumption that those negotiating for peace, are actually, you know, interested in peace. Several days ago peace talks occurred between Sparta and Legion. It has been confirmed, that the talks began with reps figures being thrown about. Sparta asking for $800 million. Legion countering with $400 million. As I understand it, after some negotiation, they kinda tacitly agreed on $600 million. Im not sure exactly what transpired after that agreement, but it is a fact. that at some point after the agreement of $600 million, Sparta went on ahead and offered White Peace. Then the infamous conversation occurred that led Sparta to believe they had an agreement. So Sparta posted the white peace agreement. Legion then has someone come in and say, not only did they not agree to peace, they didn't even want peace. At this point, in my opinion, Legion forfeit any right they had to expect a white peace. While it is well within their rights to continue defending their allies, it is well within Sparta's rights to believe that Legion was negotiating peace in good faith. Legion got the best terms possible...THE BEST TERMS POSSIBLE...in negotiations that THEY VOLUNTARILY engaged in...AFTER OFFERING and tacitly agreeing to substantial cash reps. For THESE reasons, and for the reason that, you know, Legion agreed to THESE terms, I completely find these terms acceptable. You cannot negotiate in BAD faith, get the BEST POSSIBLE exit for yourself, then say "we didn't really want peace anyways," then expect to get rewarded for that behavior later.

o/ Sparta!

[Alphex]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='22 February 2010 - 08:56 AM' timestamp='1266846976' post='2197201']
You know, I thoroughly enjoyed reading all of this thread. Congrats on peace Sparta, much love to you all.

When negotiating peace, it is a reasonable assumption that those negotiating for peace, are actually, you know, interested in peace. Several days ago peace talks occurred between Sparta and Legion. It has been confirmed, that the talks began with reps figures being thrown about. Sparta asking for $800 million. Legion countering with $400 million. As I understand it, after some negotiation, they kinda tacitly agreed on $600 million. Im not sure exactly what transpired after that agreement, but it is a fact. that at some point after the agreement of $600 million, Sparta went on ahead and offered White Peace. Then the infamous conversation occurred that led Sparta to believe they had an agreement. So Sparta posted the white peace agreement. Legion then has someone come in and say, not only did they not agree to peace, they didn't even want peace. At this point, in my opinion, Legion forfeit any right they had to expect a white peace. While it is well within their rights to continue defending their allies, it is well within Sparta's rights to believe that Legion was negotiating peace in good faith. Legion got the best terms possible...THE BEST TERMS POSSIBLE...in negotiations that THEY VOLUNTARILY engaged in...AFTER OFFERING and tacitly agreeing to substantial cash reps. For THESE reasons, and for the reason that, you know, Legion agreed to THESE terms, I completely find these terms acceptable. You cannot negotiate in BAD faith, get the BEST POSSIBLE exit for yourself, then say "we didn't really want peace anyways," then expect to get rewarded for that behavior later.

o/ Sparta!
[/quote]

Do you even know what happened?

[Rush Sykes]

[quote name='Alphex' date='22 February 2010 - 02:09 PM' timestamp='1266847750' post='2197212']
Do you even know what happened?
[/quote]

Im pretty sure my timeline is relatively accurate. Most if it was taken from postings by members of Legion. If I got something incorrect, instead of asking a rhetorical question, point it out, and lets get to the bottom of it.

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Rush Sykes' date='22 February 2010 - 08:56 AM' timestamp='1266846976' post='2197201']
You know, I thoroughly enjoyed reading all of this thread. Congrats on peace Sparta, much love to you all.

When negotiating peace, it is a reasonable assumption that those negotiating for peace, are actually, you know, interested in peace. Several days ago peace talks occurred between Sparta and Legion. It has been confirmed, that the talks began with reps figures being thrown about. Sparta asking for $800 million. Legion countering with $400 million. As I understand it, after some negotiation, they kinda tacitly agreed on $600 million. Im not sure exactly what transpired after that agreement, but it is a fact. that at some point after the agreement of $600 million, Sparta went on ahead and offered White Peace. Then the infamous conversation occurred that led Sparta to believe they had an agreement. So Sparta posted the white peace agreement. Legion then has someone come in and say, not only did they not agree to peace, they didn't even want peace. At this point, in my opinion, Legion forfeit any right they had to expect a white peace. While it is well within their rights to continue defending their allies, it is well within Sparta's rights to believe that Legion was negotiating peace in good faith. Legion got the best terms possible...THE BEST TERMS POSSIBLE...in negotiations that THEY VOLUNTARILY engaged in...AFTER OFFERING and tacitly agreeing to substantial cash reps. For THESE reasons, and for the reason that, you know, Legion agreed to THESE terms, I completely find these terms acceptable. You cannot negotiate in BAD faith, get the BEST POSSIBLE exit for yourself, then say "we didn't really want peace anyways," then expect to get rewarded for that behavior later.

o/ Sparta!
[/quote]

This is semi-correct. However Legion did not agree to pay 600 million initially, they were discussing it and while discussing if they would agree or not Sparta decided on their own to decline reps if Legion decided to agree to leave the conflict. Let it be known that no one was expecting reps at that time until things blew up on that one day and severely declined afterwords. Had several events not occurred which compiled together in a very bizarre way, we likely would be sitting on no reps right here.

I would also like it to be known, after some thinking on this; People are complaining reps were given after 5 days from the initially white peace offering, but can you tell me, What good did remaining in the conflict a whole five extra days do for anyone? I'm curious, it didn't help a single alliance in my opinion. Their allies still got damaged, Legion took more damage and had to pay reps for the damage incurred after their decision to remain in the war, no one benefited. But yet their allies asked them to remain in the war and suffer further damages when there was a divided opinion on whether to leave or not amongst Legion.

I'm not faulting them for remaining, I'd have done the same if I were in their shoes possibly (can't promise it, depends on a lot of things) but I am criticizing everyone's opinion that 5 days does not matter, because it means A LOT in a war. In 5 days time you can lose more than it takes to rebuild in a month.

So if you will discuss this with some tact with me, I open anyone to answer this question I am posing.

Edited February 22, 2010 by lonewolfe2015

[janax]

[quote name='Matthew Conrad' date='21 February 2010 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1266817358' post='2196466']
Yes, we knew \m/ were going to make those remarks, in fact we planned it all.
[/quote]


My point was...if the Athens - Ni situation had become a war, I am almost 100% sure Sparta would have fought for Athens. Correct?
Does that mean you are supporting the tech raiding of 40 member alliances, or does it mean you are following a treaty and helping bail out friends who made a bad decision?

Legion was doing the same. Helping out friends who made a bad decision and following a treaty.