Declaration of War

[mhawk]

[quote name='KingEd' date='20 February 2010 - 03:09 PM' timestamp='1266707360' post='2194204']
So while YOUR MDoAP partner was negotiating peace, you weren't; however, you did enter on their behalf but they didn't bother to tell you where these peace talks were taking place. I think your "treaty partners" were more concerned with getting peace for themselves than getting peace for you, well I know TFD was, don't know about NATO. Great treaty partners you have there mhawk.
[/quote]
How exactly does any of the above equate to "underhanded tactics".

[KingEd]

[quote name='mhawk' date='20 February 2010 - 11:20 PM' timestamp='1266708045' post='2194214']
How exactly does any of the above equate to "underhanded tactics".
[/quote]

I see what you did there, it's why I bolded the text which I wanted to refer too. I never said that you used any "under-handed tactics", it's not my opinion. But you and I both know that TPF wasn't there because you didn't want to be there, not because you didn't know where "there" was.

edit..

Keep on rolling that hard six, It has worked great thus far.

Edited February 20, 2010 by KingEd

[Desperado]

[quote name='KingEd' date='20 February 2010 - 06:23 PM' timestamp='1266708181' post='2194216']
I see what you did there, it's why I bolded the text which I wanted to refer too. I never said that you used any "under-handed tactics", it's not my opinion. But you and I both know that TPF wasn't there because you didn't want to be there, not because you didn't know where "there" was.

edit..

Keep on rolling that hard six, It has worked great thus far.
[/quote]

I beg to differ. I was in the original room, along with TCK. Then they left for a different room and it was tough trying to get anything. Something was mentioned about WAPA not being there and GOONS and that was the last we ever heard. From what I have gathered, it was also on your end for trying not to include us.

[Audran]

[quote name='RustyNail' date='20 February 2010 - 03:54 PM' timestamp='1266702844' post='2194139']
Nukes are not immoral, nukes are like a giant warm hug.
[/quote]

Expect a big hug tonight then!

[HOUGHTAILING]

Lets hope this fighting ends soon.

[mhawk]

[quote name='KingEd' date='20 February 2010 - 03:23 PM' timestamp='1266708181' post='2194216']
I see what you did there, it's why I bolded the text which I wanted to refer too. I never said that you used any "under-handed tactics", it's not my opinion. But you and I both know that TPF wasn't there because you didn't want to be there, not because you didn't know where "there" was.

edit..

Keep on rolling that hard six, It has worked great thus far.
[/quote]
I'm not quite sure if you're trying to be insulting with such lines, however we've served our allies well. In Karma holding out until the last, in the athens tomfoolry pursuing and executing a strategy to preserve our allies, and in this war helping our allies out again just a few weeks after our last war 4 on 1. We are strong and surviving and any amount of mockery should be withheld until a point when your alliance has been tested as ours has and can still manage to punch above it's weight.

[RustyNail]

[quote name='Audran' date='20 February 2010 - 04:35 PM' timestamp='1266708934' post='2194228']
Expect a big hug tonight then!
[/quote]

Expect a bigger one in return

[Chickenzilla]

You [i]scum[/i]
You are becoming the monster.
In other news.
Good luck VE

[RustyNail]

[quote name='Chickenzilla' date='20 February 2010 - 04:52 PM' timestamp='1266709937' post='2194255']
You [i]scum[/i]
You are becoming the monster.
In other news.
Good luck VE
[/quote]


<3 u too CZ

[KingEd]

[quote name='Desperado' date='20 February 2010 - 11:29 PM' timestamp='1266708594' post='2194223']
I beg to differ. I was in the original room, along with TCK. Then they left for a different room and it was tough trying to get anything. Something was mentioned about WAPA not being there and GOONS and that was the last we ever heard. From what I have gathered, it was also on your end for trying not to include us.
[/quote]

[16:41] <Lusitan_[TFD]> TPF expressed the desire of dealing with WAPA directly

Yes of course, we were trying to exclude you ? The first 10 minutes were all about TPF and where TPF was and why they weren't there. We truly and honestly tried to peace the entire NATO front on the single condition that they should remain neutral for the remainder of the conflict. I was then informed that TPF had the desire to re-enter the conflict, at which point, we moved on with the peace talks without TPF.

[quote name='mhawk' date='20 February 2010 - 11:44 PM' timestamp='1266709497' post='2194244']
I'm not quite sure if you're trying to be insulting with such lines, however we've served our allies well. In Karma holding out until the last, in the athens tomfoolry pursuing and executing a strategy to preserve our allies, and in this war helping our allies out again just a few weeks after our last war 4 on 1. We are strong and surviving and any amount of mockery should be withheld until a point when your alliance has been tested as ours has and can still manage to punch above it's weight.
[/quote]

Not at all. I know you guys from my days back in MCXA---However; I think you have approached this in the wrong manner. Like you said, you have killed yourselves in defense of your allies time and time again---As an alliance leader I respect that immensely. And the last conflict where you fought 4v1 while your allies planned for a week and nothing happened. You have honored your treaty (fought for your side), so why not peace out ? I think you have proven that all your guys are willing to go to ZI time and time again. I have no idea what your trying to prove now by remaining in this conflict.

Edited February 21, 2010 by KingEd

[Goldie]

VE has no interest in prolonging these conflicts. Quite the contrary, we would like to see all of our allies and friends of allies reach their desired solutions to their wars, and will do whatever we can to assist them in doing so.

TPF if you want to talk peace with WAPA and VE, then, well... talk peace with WAPA and VE.

[zzzptm]

There's only one TPF nation in my range.

Boo, hiss! Terrible war!

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='mhawk' date='20 February 2010 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1266709497' post='2194244']
I'm not quite sure if you're trying to be insulting with such lines, however we've served our allies well. In Karma holding out until the last, in the athens tomfoolry pursuing and executing a strategy to preserve our allies, and in this war helping our allies out again just a few weeks after our last war 4 on 1. We are strong and surviving and any amount of mockery should be withheld until a point when your alliance has been tested as ours has and can still manage to punch above it's weight.
[/quote]

You hold to a misconception here, and it hurt your alliance greatly in Karma, I hope it does not continue to dominate your decisions making progress here as well.

This misconception I'm talking about is the belief that getting your alliance mauled is a good thing. It is not, from any perspective, but the most immediate application can be summed up with a line that I have always taken to heart.

The goal of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other guy die for his.

Pointless last stands serve nothing, and can only harm your alliance in the long run. 'Roll the hard six' then becomes a very apt phrase, as its original meaning Implies risking everything on poor odds. While it is possible to achieve a brilliant success, the far more common outcome is what one would expect when gambling, you lose everything.

You may want to consider picking up a new slogan, because 'The Hard Six' tells the world you take foolish chances, not an image you want to convey.

[mhawk]

[quote name='TypoNinja' date='20 February 2010 - 05:49 PM' timestamp='1266716945' post='2194370']
You hold to a misconception here, and it hurt your alliance greatly in Karma, I hope it does not continue to dominate your decisions making progress here as well.

This misconception I'm talking about is the belief that getting your alliance mauled is a good thing. It is not, from any perspective, but the most immediate application can be summed up with a line that I have always taken to heart.

The goal of war is not to die for your country, its to make the other guy die for his.

Pointless last stands serve nothing, and can only harm your alliance in the long run. 'Roll the hard six' then becomes a very apt phrase, as its original meaning Implies risking everything on poor odds. While it is possible to achieve a brilliant success, the far more common outcome is what one would expect when gambling, you lose everything.

You may want to consider picking up a new slogan, because 'The Hard Six' tells the world you take foolish chances, not an image you want to convey.
[/quote]
I don't see how this belief of getting our alliance mauled is portrayed. We said many times over we wish to peace out wapa at the same time as nato. What I said was ideally we do that via ceasefire. That appears to have been mistaken as a direct refusal to talk and tpf was thus excluded from any further talks.

"Rolling the hard six" is not a statement of great desire to risk. It is a realization that the odds of survival or a favorable outcome are grim and thus you risk everything. Everytime an alliance has entered a state of war that risk is gambled, however TPF stands firm in conviction to do what it can with what it has, in assistance to our friends is the only choice.

[Roadie]

[quote name='RustyNail' date='20 February 2010 - 04:20 PM' timestamp='1266704436' post='2194164']
I think he was talking about us....you can stay up on your cross.


[/quote]

That makes more sense. Argent has been studly in this war.

[The Crimson King]

[quote name='KingEd' date='20 February 2010 - 08:22 PM' timestamp='1266715360' post='2194339']
[16:41] <Lusitan_[TFD]> TPF expressed the desire of dealing with WAPA directly

Yes of course, we were trying to exclude you ? The first 10 minutes were all about TPF and where TPF was and why they weren't there. We truly and honestly tried to peace the entire NATO front on the single condition that they should remain neutral for the remainder of the conflict. I was then informed that TPF had the desire to re-enter the conflict, at which point, we moved on with the peace talks without TPF.



[/quote]

I believe you are completely missing the point he was trying to make there. The ONLY meeting we were even informed of was the one that was supposed to take place in #era_fa. As Desperado pointed out, we had 2 representatives in that channel from TPF. This is also something that you are well aware of because you were present in that channel. A 3rd party moderator (Dr. Fresh) was agreed upon and brought in as well at the behest of representatives from TGE. No one ever informed us of a channel move or a switch. We found out hours later that talks had occurred in a different channel, and terms were agreed upon.

So to say we were not there, or furthermore to imply were we unwilling to discuss peace is completely disingenuous. We tried at least 5 times since the outset of this conflict to get meetings together with the parties involved to discuss peace.

If anyone on your side had wanted us in the channel where the talks were actually going down a simple query or the name of the new channel posted up in the chan we were actually present in waiting for talks to happen would have easily got you waht you supposedly wanted. But I am sure taking the word of a member of an alliance that TPF is not even allied to as the gospel on our policy outlook on the peace talks was far easier.

[Lusitan]

[quote name='KingEd' date='21 February 2010 - 01:22 AM' timestamp='1266715360' post='2194339']
[16:41] <Lusitan_[TFD]> TPF expressed the desire of dealing with WAPA directly

Yes of course, we were trying to exclude you ? The first 10 minutes were all about TPF and where TPF was and why they weren't there. We truly and honestly tried to peace the entire NATO front on the single condition that they should remain neutral for the remainder of the conflict. I was then informed that TPF had the desire to re-enter the conflict, at which point, we moved on with the peace talks without TPF.
[/quote]

Might be worth mention my words there were based on a previous meeting featuring me, Roquentin, Shinpah, LennyNKarl and mhawk, where that was what I gathered from mhawk's words. TFD has no direct relationship with TPF, we had no other contact with them afterwards and no one seemed to contest that statement of mine with a more recent position from TPF. Besides that, I had no idea TPF was not informed at all.

[The Big Bad]

NV and RIA know how to fight how in the heck did they get saddled with VE tagging along? Well I am sure they will at least be able to point VE in the right direction and keep them from looking to bad. VE is always ready for war, as long as the other guy is already at war and out numbered.

[Sephiroth]

Good luck Argent and give them hell.

o/ Argent

[Druss the Legend]

Better late than never VE


Good luck out there

[sethb]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='21 February 2010 - 03:53 AM' timestamp='1266724393' post='2194507']
NV and RIA know how to fight how in the heck did they get saddled with VE tagging along? Well I am sure they will at least be able to point VE in the right direction and keep them from looking to bad. VE is always ready for war, as long as the other guy is already at war and out numbered.
[/quote]
Yeah because we waited until now to enter and we haven't declared war on anyone else or anything.

[KingEd]

[quote name='The Crimson King' date='21 February 2010 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1266720698' post='2194442']
I believe you are completely missing the point he was trying to make there. The ONLY meeting we were even informed of was the one that was supposed to take place in #era_fa. As Desperado pointed out, we had 2 representatives in that channel from TPF. This is also something that you are well aware of because you were present in that channel. A 3rd party moderator (Dr. Fresh) was agreed upon and brought in as well at the behest of representatives from TGE. No one ever informed us of a channel move or a switch. [b]We found out hours later that talks had occurred in a different channel, and terms were agreed upon.[/b]

So to say we were not there, or furthermore to imply were we unwilling to discuss peace is completely disingenuous. We tried at least 5 times since the outset of this conflict to get meetings together with the parties involved to discuss peace.

If anyone on your side had wanted us in the channel where the talks were actually going down a simple query or the name of the new channel posted up in the chan we were actually present in waiting for talks to happen would have easily got you waht you supposedly wanted. But I am sure taking the word of a member of an alliance that TPF is not even allied to as the gospel on our policy outlook on the peace talks was far easier.
[/quote]

1. Yes I was in that room.
2. The last words spoken in that room are as follows;

[16:27] <07Homeboy[TPE]> Chocolate_Cookies[GUN] check your querys
[16:27] <Roquentin> we're in another channel with tfd/nato <----
[16:27] <Roquentin> why are we using this one
[16:27] <Roquentin> what is the point of this
01[16:27] <05KingEd[TPE]> seriously
Session Close: Fri Feb 19 16:28:00 2010

3. I assumed TPF had been informed, I was obviously mistaken.
4. I know Dr. Fresh, I brought him into the channel and asked him to mediate because some of the signatories involved wanted a neutral (un-related) party to lead the talks.
5. Hours later ? I'd like to remind you that these talks lasted for about 8 hours...from 4PM Server time to 12 PM Server time. 8 hours, and the talks weren't solidified until about 11 PM at which point the hunt began to find the remaining signatories who needed to ratify. I led that hunt. Don't tell me that you knew talks had happened when they were still happening. TPF could have easily jumped in if they were truly looking for peace.


[quote name='Lusitan' date='21 February 2010 - 02:59 AM' timestamp='1266721145' post='2194452']
Might be worth mention my words there were based on a previous meeting featuring me, Roquentin, Shinpah, LennyNKarl and mhawk, where that was what I gathered from mhawk's words. TFD has no direct relationship with TPF, we had no other contact with them afterwards and no one seemed to contest that statement of mine with a more recent position from TPF. Besides that, I had no idea TPF was not informed at all.
[/quote]

I see. Well then yeah, it's more or less still TPF's position for the most part. Duly noted.

Edited February 21, 2010 by KingEd

[strelock]

Go get them my VE comrades
07 VE

[TypoNinja]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='20 February 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1266724393' post='2194507']
NV and RIA know how to fight how in the heck did they get saddled with VE tagging along? Well I am sure they will at least be able to point VE in the right direction and keep them from looking to bad. VE is always ready for war, as long as the other guy is already at war and out numbered.
[/quote]

I neither know, nor care, who you are, but clearly VE pissed in your cheerios at some point in the past. Do you posses a rational basis for your rabid personality, or are you just doing so for the sake of such?

[Dontasemebro]

[quote name='The Big Bad' date='20 February 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1266724393' post='2194507']
NV and RIA know how to fight how in the heck did they get saddled with VE tagging along? Well I am sure they will at least be able to point VE in the right direction and keep them from looking to bad. VE is always ready for war, as long as the other guy is already at war and out numbered.
[/quote]

idk have you seen Rebel_Virginia's sig? RIA is terrible!

also VE's upper tier is and that's where we need help.