zoskia Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Van Hoo III' date='02 February 2010 - 03:45 PM' timestamp='1265136352' post='2153523'] I have spoken to Grub at length in regard to his reasons for attacking both \m/ and GOD. I understand that sometimes allies fighting allies is unavoidable. After taking all the information into account in both cases, we feel that both attacks were avoidable and both wars were declared for reasons we do not agree with.[/quote] The situation with \m/ has been handled quite well I think. The white peace was given as it was promised. Indeed, the war finished quite fast and I see no grudges between \m/ and Polaris right now. As for GOD, our obvious intention is to find a way to get white peace for an important ally of us, the NSO. We actually have no interest in destroying GOD, nor we are looking forward to "win" the war... we simply wanna finish it as soon as possible, both for us and the NSO. We didn't choose the "sides" of this war... and we are trying to help one of the "sides" to win. Take it for granted that if the war finished right now Polaris would be happier. I think you are being unfair... and I'm looking forward to seeing this same treaty signed again in the future. We're simply doing the best we can in a war in which the sides became quite complicated and none of the possible choices was 100% right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Gerald Meane' date='02 February 2010 - 07:34 PM' timestamp='1265139278' post='2153665'] While I believe any alliance has the right to sign treaties this war has shown me at least how detrimental it can be to have too many treaties. If anything it seems better to be paperless now with treaties being rare, and with those who alliances truely feel they can trust. [/quote] paperless isn't the way to go, but a clear circle of friends, with the understanding that any treaty signed outside of that circle could potentially be detrimental to that circle is what's needed. You can have 10 treaties, as long as those 10 alliances only hold treaties with each other and they all share the same goals and are moving in the same general direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='astronaut jones' date='02 February 2010 - 07:31 PM' timestamp='1265139107' post='2153662'] Until a time that my opinions are proven false, then no. I've stated I will apologize if they do not attack NpO or NSO during this war and show they truly do wish to remain friends. So, we'll just wait and see. [/quote] I find it quite amusing that you feel a friend would never attack an ally, considering the circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote]As for Bob Janova, I think it was more the Polar directly attacking a SF member, rather than RoK picking between NpO and CnG. [/quote] (quoting one of several posts making this point) If this is the case, then someone didn't look at the big picture. Superfriends chose to enter this war on the non-Polar side. GOD has declared war on NpO's MDP ally (NSO). It wasn't Polar that chose to put GOD in direct opposition to them, and cancelling on Polar because they're retaliating against an alliance which has declared war on their MDP ally would be rather odd . I give RoK more credit than that which is why I went for the bigger political picture theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
astronaut jones Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Kindom of Goon' date='02 February 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1265139648' post='2153679'] I find it quite amusing that you feel a friend would never attack an ally, considering the circumstances. [/quote] I find it quite amusing that you don't seem to know what was said by me at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kindom of Goon Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='astronaut jones' date='02 February 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1265139724' post='2153681'] I find it quite amusing that you don't seem to know what was said by me at all. [/quote] Seems pretty clear to me. You think if Rok declare on NSO it would prove you right that they do not wish to remain friends with NpO. If I am mistaken, feel free to correct me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affluenza Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='zoskia' date='02 February 2010 - 07:40 PM' timestamp='1265139603' post='2153677'] As for GOD, our obvious intention is to find a way to get white peace for an important ally of us, the NSO. [/quote] NpO didn't have to declare...I'm sure NpO could have used something called diplomacy. Infact if the intention was for white peace...I can't see that happening now. That ship sailed away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ying Yang Mafia Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Great decision RoK. This is one announcement that I'd been hoping to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='zoskia' date='02 February 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1265139603' post='2153677'] As for GOD, our obvious intention is to find a way to get white peace for an important ally of us, the NSO. We actually have no interest in destroying GOD, nor we are looking forward to "win" the war... we simply wanna finish it as soon as possible, both for us and the NSO. [/quote] Why didn't you talk to GOD then? They were the ones whom did offer peace to NSO and were trying the hardest to get everyone to peace out NSO. Did you think attacking them would make them offer peace more? Like you guys mentioned FARK was the one holding up the peace, why not attack them? Or heck talk to GOD and FARK and find out what's happening before running in like an idiot and attacking your ally's friend. Couldn't even have the decency to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jphillips412 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 It was fun while it lasted. Take care RoK, and best of luck to you guys in the future. o/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWP Fowler2006 Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='astronaut jones' date='02 February 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1265139607' post='2153678'] paperless isn't the way to go, but a clear circle of friends, with the understanding that any treaty signed outside of that circle could potentially be detrimental to that circle is what's needed. You can have 10 treaties, as long as those 10 alliances only hold treaties with each other and they all share the same goals and are moving in the same general direction. [/quote] Sorry, but your way of thinking is quite narrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WcaesarD Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 February 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1265139691' post='2153680'] (quoting one of several posts making this point) If this is the case, then someone didn't look at the big picture. Superfriends chose to enter this war on the non-Polar side. GOD has declared war on NpO's MDP ally (NSO). It wasn't Polar that chose to put GOD in direct opposition to them, and cancelling on Polar because they're retaliating against an alliance which has declared war on their MDP ally would be rather odd . I give RoK more credit than that which is why I went for the bigger political picture theory. [/quote] I think that overall, yes, that makes sense, but it was more of a "straw that broke the camels back" thing. And the SF/CnG side wasn't even 100% clear until TOP/IRON/TORN went ahead with thier blitz, from what I can see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voytek Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Affluenza' date='03 February 2010 - 05:49 AM' timestamp='1265140168' post='2153689']NpO didn't have to declare...I'm sure NpO could have used something called diplomacy.[/quote] What makes you so sure diplomacy hasn't already been tried? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookavich Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 Good luck in the future, Rok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ejayrazz Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 February 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1265139691' post='2153680'] (quoting one of several posts making this point) If this is the case, then someone didn't look at the big picture. Superfriends chose to enter this war on the non-Polar side. GOD has declared war on NpO's MDP ally (NSO). It wasn't Polar that chose to put GOD in direct opposition to them, and cancelling on Polar because they're retaliating against an alliance which has declared war on their MDP ally would be rather odd . I give RoK more credit than that which is why I went for the bigger political picture theory. [/quote] Good statement that I generally agree to. Favoritism amongst allies can lead to disasters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Voytek' date='02 February 2010 - 02:55 PM' timestamp='1265140510' post='2153702'] What makes you so sure diplomacy hasn't already been tried? [/quote] The fact that you didn't talk to GOD before declaring. Oh, and attacked the alliance that was trying to get peace for your ally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpacingOutMan Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='zoskia' date='02 February 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1265139603' post='2153677'] [b]I think you are being unfair...[/b] and I'm looking forward to seeing this same treaty signed again in the future. We're simply doing the best we can in a war in which the sides became quite complicated and none of the possible choices was 100% right. [/quote] "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." [quote name='WarriorConcept' date='02 February 2010 - 02:51 PM' timestamp='1265140311' post='2153693'] Why didn't you talk to GOD then? They were the ones whom did offer peace to NSO and were trying the hardest to get everyone to peace out NSO. Did you think attacking them would make them offer peace more? Like you guys mentioned FARK was the one holding up the peace, why not attack them? Or heck talk to GOD and FARK and find out what's happening before running in like an idiot and attacking your ally's friend. Couldn't even have the decency to do that. [/quote] Sometimes people don't think these things through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoskia Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Affluenza' date='02 February 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1265140168' post='2153689'] NpO didn't have to declare...I'm sure NpO could have used something called diplomacy. Infact if the intention was for white peace...I can't see that happening now. That ship sailed away... [/quote] We actually used diplomacy and we've been using it for the last 4 days, since peace with \m/ was signed. As far as I know, Polaris is STILL trying to get the NSO out of this war and our diplomatic conversations have not finished. I don't think we have any kind of special interest in fighting with GOD... and I don't think the NSO is interested in destroying GOD either... nor the other Alliances they are fighting against right now. What kind of secret agenda we could have against GOD? We don't have one. Indeed, if the MK gets weaker, then we get weaker too, since you are our Allies. So I don't see the point of this war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorConcept Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='zoskia' date='02 February 2010 - 03:01 PM' timestamp='1265140905' post='2153710'] We actually used diplomacy and we've been using it for the last 4 days, since peace with \m/ was signed. As far as I know, Polaris is STILL trying to get the NSO out of this war and our diplomatic conversations have not finished. I don't think we have any kind of special interest in fighting with GOD... and I don't think the NSO is interested in destroying GOD either... nor the other Alliances they are fighting against right now. What kind of secret agenda we could have against GOD? We don't have one. Indeed, if the MK gets weaker, then we get weaker too, since you are our Allies. So I don't see the point of this war. [/quote] I am also wondering what agenda you have that you'll attack GOD, the alliance trying to get NSO peace, instead of FARK, the one holding up peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scorbolt Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 (edited) [quote name='Bob Janova' date='02 February 2010 - 12:41 PM' timestamp='1265139691' post='2153680'] (quoting one of several posts making this point) If this is the case, then someone didn't look at the big picture. Superfriends chose to enter this war on the non-Polar side. GOD has declared war on NpO's MDP ally (NSO). It wasn't Polar that chose to put GOD in direct opposition to them, and cancelling on Polar because they're retaliating against an alliance which has declared war on their MDP ally would be rather odd . I give RoK more credit than that which is why I went for the bigger political picture theory. [/quote] If you look at the big picture, IRON and TOP declared war on CnG which led FARK to declare war on IRON to defend it's CnG allies. NSO then declared on FARK in defense of the aggression of IRON. At this point, 2 direct allies of Polar were attacked and a MADP partner of RoK was attacked my Polars ally. Should RoK then be expected to turn a blind eye to Polar engaging on GOD? When GOD was simply defending a mutual MADP ally of RoK and itself? I am sure that this was a tough decision for RoK to make but Polar chose a path which put them in a terrible position when there were many ways that path could be avoided. RoK is a great alliance to be allied to and Polar could have operated much more respectfully to it's allies position. Edited February 2, 2010 by Scorbolt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locke Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Acca Dacca' date='02 February 2010 - 02:10 PM' timestamp='1265137853' post='2153615'] It isnt good. It was an actual friendship and it meant something to both of us. Although it had to be done, its still something we're going to miss. [/quote] I didn't say it wasn't sad. Well, it isn't to me personally, but I'm sure it is to you. Regardless of that, it is [i]good[/i] because Polar will continue to act as they have now and in the past regarding allies of allies, and if that is a problem to you (which I should very well hope it is, and would appear to be), then you need to cancel and it will be to your betterment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trance addict Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='WarriorConcept' date='02 February 2010 - 01:57 PM' timestamp='1265140665' post='2153707'] The fact that you didn't talk to GOD before declaring. Oh, and attacked the alliance that was trying to get peace for your ally. [/quote] Your really pushing the fact that NpO had an obligation to speak with GOD about finding peace. Here's some thoughts on that... 1) Ask the general consense of how easy it was to speak with GOD about acheiveing peace during the Karma War - particulariy the fine folks in Echelon, ask them how Diplomatic GOD was willing to be. 2) Did GOD have the decenty to speak with their Ally (RoK) about hitting an Ally(NSO) of an Ally (NpO). I mean everyone else seems to beable to talk of NpO hitting and ally of their ally (RoK), so lets throw another chain in the link and make it and ally of an ally of an ally. Come on where would you like to stop this merry-go-round 3) So based on the logic that Polar should have asked GOD to declare peace B4 Polar declared war on them, then going forth the new manner in which wars shall be declared on Bob will be... you hate someone so approach all your allies, and their allies, and potential allies to ensure that if you hit X alliance on X day every one will be cool with that? I mean OPSEC should be spinning in its grave at the moment. the reality is this war has show the complexity of the treaty web and the chaos it shall cause for all wars to come unless things change drastically, meaning that some of the folks treatied today will have to cut some of those ties in the future. Some of those ties will be easy and a joyous occasion when the ties are severed, some not so much. Now back to my whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChefAce Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='zoskia' date='02 February 2010 - 02:40 PM' timestamp='1265139603' post='2153677'] We're simply doing the best we can in a war in which the sides became quite complicated and none of the possible choices was 100% right. [/quote] That. That, right there, has to be one of the brightest things I've read since this whole craptastic escapade of BS began. And for that, I thank you. No matter how you slice it, this all comes down to a matter of perspective. I see it one way and you see it another. However, we must have the ability to let the other side have their own perspective, without being judgmental. It's easier said than done. Aggression is the tool of choice for those who can't let others have their own perspective and thus try to impose their will, their perspective. While I do hate all of you, it doesn't mean we can't all just get along, does it? Good luck to the NpO. And good luck to the players who are just here to pew pew and clickity click the crap out of people, we're a dying breed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrideAssassin Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 When you have so many treaties, you're bound to run into multiple headache, conflicts, and all-around uncomfortable situations. Best of luck to RoK out there in the big bad world. o/ Polaris Sad day for both involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Affluenza Posted February 2, 2010 Report Share Posted February 2, 2010 [quote name='Voytek' date='02 February 2010 - 07:55 PM' timestamp='1265140510' post='2153702'] What makes you so sure diplomacy hasn't already been tried? [/quote] Keep trying? War in this situation should always and I mean always the last option. Now NpO's allies will now be burdened by having to go out to bat for you... Xiphosis is not going to have mercy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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