Imperial Decree - New Polar Order

[The Warrior]

[quote name='SupremePrince' date='02 February 2010 - 07:04 AM' timestamp='1265094291' post='2152660']
To TOP and TOP's allies: I simply dislike you people. You doubted us and left us no time to explain. You went right ahead and call our emperor traitor and left no room for him to explain first. You had your own agenda yet you call Polar traitors and when we prove you wrong, you thought you could get away with some mindless hailing. We will remember this.
[/quote]

[quote name='avernite' date='02 February 2010 - 07:09 AM' timestamp='1265094584' post='2152678']
Actually...

TOP was quite busy telling everyone we were not hating NpO or feeling backstabbed mere hours after the peace; in the first moments, yes, some hotheads said things that we feel sorry for, but overall I'd say this characterization hardly applies to TOP or its direct allies.
[/quote]

With a few exceptions who were uneducated on the matter, IRON too was reserving judgment until we had heard from Grub directly. Compounding the doubt however was a few of Polar's CnG allies who immediately started posting things such as: "Our plan to set up IRON has succeeded." Surely one can see where a bit of doubt would come into existence.

[Libera]

[quote]10. The New Polar Order therefore declares war on the Global Order of Darkness. Whilst it would be easy to assume I am doing so because I hate Xiphosis and vice versa, this is not the case. [b]We are committed to ending this war as rapidly as possible, preferably by a white peace agreement for everyone engaged[/b] including but not limited to TOP, IRON, C&G and SF and all their related friends and well wishers. I can not however stand idly by whilst my comrades are in deep trouble on our behalf.[/quote]


If I burnt down your house then you would expect me to pay for it, yes? Why shouldn't those who engaged in aggressive warfare be expected to pay compensation? I do not understand this current trend of white peace warfare. If you aggressively caused damage to an alliance why is it not right and just to expect nothing less than for you to pay for it?

These are honest questions and not intended to criticize nor insult any alliance.

[Sakura]

[quote name='Seerow' date='01 February 2010 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1265089662' post='2152347']
I suppose that is the motive behind Grub's actions over the last month, to see how much he can flip-flop OWFs opinion about him.
[/quote]

If he's trying to make people opinion-sick (think "seasick", but caused by rapidly changing opinions), I imagine he's having some success.

[quote name='PhysicsJunky' date='01 February 2010 - 09:51 PM' timestamp='1265089885' post='2152365']
Some of us went to the opinion best summarized as "facepalm" when this war first escalated and have been wearing it like a little fist eyepatch ever since.
[/quote]

I think my facepalm started... looking at Grub's DOW. On \m/ & PC. (Yes, I say *and*, he only specifically listed \m/, but, PC is not the sort of alliance to watch our friends burn, and Grub knew this -- expected this even.)

[quote name='NoFish' date='01 February 2010 - 10:24 PM' timestamp='1265091875' post='2152494']
So, wait, let me get this straight. In an effort to try to get [b]Fark[/b] to peace out with NSO you decided to attack GOD, an alliance that was already willing to give white peace to NSO.

Does that make [b]any[/b] kind of sense to [b]anyone[/b]?
[/quote]

How many nations are in, and how powerful is GOD?
And how many, and how powerful is Fark?

I think NpO's DOW on \m/ made it clear enough.

[quote name='deSouza' date='01 February 2010 - 10:36 PM' timestamp='1265092569' post='2152540']
\m/ started the war.
[/quote]

... How? I seem to recall the first DOW in this war came from... NpO. Not \m/.

[quote name='Marty McFly' date='01 February 2010 - 10:50 PM' timestamp='1265093459' post='2152598']
The problem occurred much earlier than NSO's entrance, if a certain ally of our ally hadn't attacked us then there wouldn't be a mess. I guess some people get less flak for doing the same deed.
[/quote]

Would "a certain ally of an ally" be "FOK"? If so, reread the FOK DOW on Polar.

[quote name='Chalaskan' date='01 February 2010 - 10:53 PM' timestamp='1265093630' post='2152607']
This will be my last reply to you, as it will just be a revolving wheel otherwise. At the beginning of this, your allies in PC clearly stated they would be with you. Grub said, I just want you to admit you were wrong in mass raiding a helpless alliance. YOU said [b]screw you cause PC said they will come in[/b]...drawing in most the planet on your side by treaty. C&G made it clear where they would be. I PERSONALLY said this is BS! and joined NpO thinking they were going to be smacked down.
[/quote]

PC honouring a mutual defense treaty we have.... How strange. For a moment, I thought you were talking about some other alliance.

[quote name='Ivan Moldavi' date='01 February 2010 - 10:54 PM' timestamp='1265093673' post='2152611']
Yes, I have and I found him to be much better than the reputation he gets off here.

Like I said, he and my people had worked out a peace agreement that was dependent on Fark. Polar and GOD will undoubtedly have direct diplomatic conversations at this point so I can only surmise that such as what I submitted is a possibility.
[/quote]

Based on what I've seen of Grub's diplomacy with the \m/ situation... I would suggest locking Grub out of whatever room you're negotiating in. It will improve your chances of gaining peace without *too much* destruction.

[quote name='Chalaskan' date='01 February 2010 - 11:10 PM' timestamp='1265094637' post='2152684']
I really wanted to take leave of this argument but you call "my record" into question. My record has always been the same, since september of 2006. Those that know me, know this. The rest of your argument really is ridiculous. IF C&G/SF/Umbrella weren't backing PC, they would have let you die. Spew your BS some more. Are you in my range?
[/quote]

Um... what alliance are you talking about? The Poison Clan *I* know isn't the sort to abandon allies because the odds are against us.

[quote name='HeinousOne' date='01 February 2010 - 11:42 PM' timestamp='1265096533' post='2152778']
That is a very ambiguous statement. What you might consider him being to prideful is simply him unwilling to sign any unacceptable terms. I am sorry you are going to have to be more descriptive otherwise I am going to possibly assume you didn't get the entire truth into those two short sentences.
[/quote]

I can't blame Ivan for not wanting to sign unacceptable terms, that's part of why the first part of the war escalated -- NpO was giving unacceptable terms (that were thinly disguised as "white peace".) FOK only joined in (on the MD, oA, and spirit of the treaty) *after* NpO (Grub) made unreasonable demands of \m/ to 'end' the conflict.

And, about the OP....

While I can see honour in coming to your friend's defense, I do have to wonder... why GOD only, and not GOD+Fark+however many others were left in the war? Also, did you even *try* communicating with GOD/Fark/etc?

[Madder Red]

Polaris Prevails!
o/ Grub

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' date='02 February 2010 - 08:15 AM' timestamp='1265098523' post='2152829']
I'm referring to Starfox specifically. This relates to my questioning him in another thread where he claimed something like that we wouldn't give \m/ peace, and that we'd declared for other motives. (He did not reply in the other thread, despite me re-asking my question)

Or am I not getting what you're saying? I don't think we're disagreeing on anything.
[/quote]
My misunderstandng, I thought you refering to \m/ .gov
Some statements in the OP have me on guard, not sure if we were being accused of malicious intent while seeking
peace.

[Fireandthepassion]

[quote name='Louis Balfour' date='02 February 2010 - 12:18 AM' timestamp='1265091494' post='2152470']
What is this I don't even

Glad not to have a treaty obligation to this guy and his swollen head...


People of NpO, please... Take your alliance back.
[/quote]

I'm so tired of seeing this argument about treaty obligations to the point that it's time for it to be debunked. Why didn't Rok cancel their treaty when \m/ threw a racial slur at Grub that killed all attempts at diplomacy? We should all know well enough that you can't talk to or yell at \m/ they wont change their ways; which is why no one in Polaris or Polaris' allies believed that \m/ apology. Where was MK when FOK escalated, props to FOK I hold nothing against FOK for them declaring on Polaris, on an oA clause? Was MK ever in the military organization channel established for the war effort on \m/, pc, and FOK? No. I can't say if MK ever offered assistance as I don't know if they did or did not, but considering how the general membership of MK treats their allies in Polaris; I'm going with no they didn't. Had MK been anywhere near Polaris on this side TOP would be no where near Polar and telling Polar that TOP was specifically aimed at c&g. No matter what Grub would have said TOP would have still fought c&g preemptive strike or declaring in defense of someone on c&g alliances.

So please stop ignoring all the points because whats done is done. Now just move on because the posts berating Polaris as bad allies add nothing because there's a lot more that could be said about certain alliances that are allied to Polaris.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Fireandthepassion

[shahenshah]

[quote name='Sakura' date='02 February 2010 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1265100629' post='2152854']
-- NpO was giving unacceptable terms (that were thinly disguised as "white peace".) FOK only joined in (on the MD, oA, and spirit of the treaty) *after* NpO (Grub) made unreasonable demands of \m/ to 'end' the conflict.
[/quote]

So you and your ally accepted the 'unacceptable terms' and 'unreasonable demands'? What happened to grand stand and making a point?

[Fireandthepassion]

[quote name='Sakura' date='02 February 2010 - 02:50 AM' timestamp='1265100629' post='2152854']
If he's trying to make people opinion-sick (think "seasick", but caused by rapidly changing opinions), I imagine he's having some success.



I think my facepalm started... looking at Grub's DOW. On \m/ & PC. (Yes, I say *and*, he only specifically listed \m/, but, PC is not the sort of alliance to watch our friends burn, and Grub knew this -- expected this even.)



How many nations are in, and how powerful is GOD?
And how many, and how powerful is Fark?

I think NpO's DOW on \m/ made it clear enough.



... How? I seem to recall the first DOW in this war came from... NpO. Not \m/.



Would "a certain ally of an ally" be "FOK"? If so, reread the FOK DOW on Polar.



PC honouring a mutual defense treaty we have.... How strange. For a moment, I thought you were talking about some other alliance.



Based on what I've seen of Grub's diplomacy with the \m/ situation... I would suggest locking Grub out of whatever room you're negotiating in. It will improve your chances of gaining peace without *too much* destruction.



Um... what alliance are you talking about? The Poison Clan *I* know isn't the sort to abandon allies because the odds are against us.



I can't blame Ivan for not wanting to sign unacceptable terms, that's part of why the first part of the war escalated -- NpO was giving unacceptable terms (that were thinly disguised as "white peace".) FOK only joined in (on the MD, oA, and spirit of the treaty) *after* NpO (Grub) made unreasonable demands of \m/ to 'end' the conflict.

And, about the OP....

While I can see honour in coming to your friend's defense, I do have to wonder... why GOD only, and not GOD+Fark+however many others were left in the war? Also, did you even *try* communicating with GOD/Fark/etc?
[/quote]

So much crap. If \m/ had not tossed a racial slur at Grub diplomacy wouldn't have failed. You can't always be cordial with diplomacy; sometimes you have to apply pressure. Grub did the right thing in regards to how he handled the \m/ situation. Grub made no unreasonable demands. \m/ charter had already had a clause recognizing the standard of the CN community and was only changed after \m/ heard the peace terms so Polar could look evil for trying to force \m/ to change their charter.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Fireandthepassion

[ccabal86]

o7 Polaris

[shilo]

But that's not how the trap is supposed to work!

You don't let your allies down, even if it takes a couple days to get out of nuclear anarchy. It's pretty hard to find the crack of honor on you that Supercomplaints is so desperately searching.

o/ Polaris

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='02 February 2010 - 09:11 AM' timestamp='1265101895' post='2152865']
So you and your ally accepted the 'unacceptable terms' and 'unreasonable demands'? What happened to grand stand and making a point?
[/quote]
Grub admitted he wasn't the sole moral authority, that was the sticking point, look it up if you want, cause right now you're showing your $@!.

[SpiderJerusalem]

Ever since SpiderJerusalem was born, I have supported Polar. I was in ODN during the war of the coalition, and I was furious because we didn't support Polar. Up until Karma, I advocated my support and my friendship. After Karma my respect grew even more and I was glad for the friendship that had evolved.

Even when you attacked our MDoAP partners over a week ago, my support and my friendship remained. I told several Polar members of my hope that it would all blow over and that I hoped for the friendship to remain. Internally in Ragnarok I scolded people who spoke up against you and wanted to cancel on you, because I trusted you. I trusted you because of your own past. You [b]know[/b] the feeling of being sold out by your close friends and I was certain that you would always remain by our side. I even pledged my nation in support of you if your reps would be harsh in any way. I was there for you, even when you were not there for me

Then you do this.

Polaris, I am sad to say that today, you lost a good friend. You lost someone that has been on your side, both in this life and a former. You have not gained an enemy, but again, you will not have a friend in me for a very long time, because what I feel now is the biggest disappointment I have ever felt in my time here.

- SpiderJerusalem

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Fireandthepassion' date='02 February 2010 - 09:11 AM' timestamp='1265101905' post='2152866']
So much crap. If \m/ had not tossed a racial slur at Grub diplomacy wouldn't have failed. You can't always be cordial with diplomacy; sometimes you have to apply pressure. Grub did the right thing in regards to how he handled the \m/ situation. Grub made no unreasonable demands. \m/ charter had already had a clause recognizing the standard of the CN community and was only changed after \m/ heard the peace terms so Polar could look evil for trying to force \m/ to change their charter.
[/quote]
That war was coming regardless of those unfortunate comments by our member, to say otherwise is a flat out lie on your part.
Starting to sound to me like our war and it's conclusion didn't settle anything, that is if you speak for your alliance, do you?
I have been holding on to the idea that Grub had honor but you are doing your best to dispell that idea.
If NpO feels this issue is unresolved maybe we need to un-peace this !@#$.

[PrideAssassin]

Tough situation. I'm pleased to see you possess the fortitude required to man up when the chips are down. My only concern is the outright contempt for honesty shown by the majority of World "Leaders" and the peanut gallery.
Somethin' about Grub I've always respected. He don't $%&@ around. With so many people spouting half-truths and outright lies; smiling while hiding daggers behind their backs, he is an island of sanity in the mad world at large.

o/ NpO

[SpiderJerusalem]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='02 February 2010 - 09:20 AM' timestamp='1265102416' post='2152873']
If NpO feels this issue is unresolved maybe we need to un-peace this !@#$.
[/quote]

Please do

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='deSouza' date='02 February 2010 - 01:36 AM' timestamp='1265092569' post='2152540']
\m/ started the war.
[/quote]

No. If you can't see that then you really shouldn't be commenting.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Emperor Marx

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='02 February 2010 - 03:20 AM' timestamp='1265102416' post='2152873']
That war was coming regardless of those unfortunate comments by our member, to say otherwise is a flat out lie on your part.
Starting to sound to me like our war and it's conclusion didn't settle anything, that is if you speak for your alliance, do you?
I have been holding on to the idea that Grub had honor but you are doing your best to dispell that idea.
If NpO feels this issue is unresolved maybe we need to un-peace this !@#$.
[/quote]

Quit beating your chest. You know that he (or I, for that matter) represent the will of our government as much or less as Starfox represents the will of yours.

[CylonNL]

Very interesting and understandable.
Damn you, I have mixed feelings about you again.
Goodluck Polar!


I wonder who will enter the fray next.

< Points to the green thing on the left.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' date='02 February 2010 - 04:34 AM' timestamp='1265103277' post='2152878']
Quit beating your chest. You know that he (or I, for that matter) represent the will of our government as much or less as Starfox represents the will of yours.
[/quote]

Grub is your Emperor, he [i]does[/i] represent the will of your government.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='SpiderJerusalem' date='02 February 2010 - 04:19 AM' timestamp='1265102378' post='2152872']
Ever since SpiderJerusalem was born, I have supported Polar. I was in ODN during the war of the coalition, and I was furious because we didn't support Polar. Up until Karma, I advocated my support and my friendship. After Karma my respect grew even more and I was glad for the friendship that had evolved.

Even when you attacked our MDoAP partners over a week ago, my support and my friendship remained. I told several Polar members of my hope that it would all blow over and that I hoped for the friendship to remain. Internally in Ragnarok I scolded people who spoke up against you and wanted to cancel on you, because I trusted you. I trusted you because of your own past. You [b]know[/b] the feeling of being sold out by your close friends and I was certain that you would always remain by our side. I even pledged my nation in support of you if your reps would be harsh in any way. I was there for you, even when you were not there for me

Then you do this.

Polaris, I am sad to say that today, you lost a good friend. You lost someone that has been on your side, both in this life and a former. You have not gained an enemy, but again, you will not have a friend in me for a very long time, because what I feel now is the biggest disappointment I have ever felt in my time here.

- SpiderJerusalem
[/quote]
Interesting that you would believe your treaty with NpO would give all your allies a free pass to attack NpO's allies without retaliation. Some support your giving NpO when you're completely disregarding their treaty commitments, why should they care about yours?

[HellAngel]

I can believe this was a very difficult decision for you, but you made the right one. Good luck.

[Zombie Glaucon]

[quote name='Emperor Marx' date='02 February 2010 - 03:36 AM' timestamp='1265103414' post='2152882']
Grub is your Emperor, he [i]does[/i] represent the will of your government.
[/quote]

Is it obvious-statement time already?

Durrr. Go talk to Grub if you want to get cute; I'm not interested.

[Groucho Marx]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' date='02 February 2010 - 04:40 AM' timestamp='1265103604' post='2152885']
Is it obvious-statement time already?

Durrr. Go talk to Grub if you want to get cute; I'm not interested.
[/quote]

It is apparently time to state the obvious since you didn't seem to grasp anything that Merrie said.

[Merrie Melodies]

[quote name='Zombie Glaucon' date='02 February 2010 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1265103277' post='2152878']
Quit beating your chest. You know that he (or I, for that matter) represent the will of our government as much or less as Starfox represents the will of yours.
[/quote]
No different than one of our members stupidly throwing out a racial slur and NpO declaring that \m/ is racist, frankly I am getting tired of it. Seems I was a fool thinking we had moved passed this.

[Timmmehhh]

Good, this means we are back too