Aqua Defense Initiative Announcement

[ChairmanHal]

And Im sure TPF's allies were in waiting too right? The numbers didnt add up to a curbstomp.

Not disputing that...merely pointing out that the side attacking TPF at that time was more significant than was being suggested.

How is log dumping to get your former protectorate rolled "having a conscience"?

Ask Elyat...he's an expert on log dumping "out of conscience". Of course his logs dumps weren't regarding a protector, but they were pretty damning.

Ill say it again, it doesnt matter if the logs were faked or not, they were given to your former protectorate's enemies in an attempt to get them rolled. Doesnt matter if faked or not, some conversations are meant to be private, and keeping them that way after a minor falling out, would have shown a lot of respect.

You're new to Planet Bob, aren't you? Log dumping is as traditional as "tech" raiding.

You're right, we all have all the evidence needed to come to a single conclusion; you log dumped to get RoK rolled.

Probably didn't help the cause of world peace, no.

[KaitlinK]

Allegedly. Seeing as it is relatively easy for either party to fake a log...I'd have to say that this little pissing contest is starting to get old, boring, and tiring.

There is no "alledgedly" about it when he admits it, writes up a "coming clean" post, then shows it to the leader he lied about all the while apologizing. Please, dont make me post the screen shots of HOURS of conversation with Warbuck... please?

To those ADI members that actually think Warbuck got you to where you are now, you're nuts. You, the membership got ADI to where it is in spite of the actions of your newly crowned ruler.

To those allies of ADI that have chosen to stay allied to him... you're like the girl whos boyfriend cheated on his ex's and then is foolish enough to think "Oh he wouldn't do that to me, he really loves me"

[ChairmanHal]

Hi cutiepie. Why do you lie? Do you want us to die? If we don't, will you cry? Maybe you want me to sing you a lullaby? Cutipie

I think perhaps given the circumstances of your admission to Ragnarok, and your absolute failure as MoFA for Ragnarok, despite being given multiple chances to change your behavior and even after your job description was altered by me so you wouldn't be so bored, that you should be the last person on Planet Bob to go into full sarcasm mode with anyone.

[SpiderJerusalem]

I think perhaps given the circumstances of your admission to Ragnarok, and your absolute failure as MoFA for Ragnarok, despite being given multiple chances to change your behavior and even after your job description was altered by me so you wouldn't be so bored, that you should be the last person on Planet Bob to go into full sarcasm mode with anyone.

Oh man. I guess your flirt with the dark side have corrupted your mind and made you alter history. You're beyond all hope. Let's all just beg for a chance of a mercy kill in the near future

[Penkala]

There is no "alledgedly" about it when he admits it, writes up a "coming clean" post, then shows it to the leader he lied about all the while apologizing. Please, dont make me post the screen shots of HOURS of conversation with Warbuck... please?

To those ADI members that actually think Warbuck got you to where you are now, you're nuts. You, the membership got ADI to where it is in spite of the actions of your newly crowned ruler.

To those allies of ADI that have chosen to stay allied to him... you're like the girl whos boyfriend cheated on his ex's and then is foolish enough to think "Oh he wouldn't do that to me, he really loves me"

Unless she knows this and just wants to use him in a fight against someone else then dump him.

[KinKiac]

Not disputing that...merely pointing out that the side attacking TPF at that time was more significant than was being suggested.

yes, and I was pointing out that TPF's side wasnt as small as what you were suggesting

Ask Elyat...he's an expert on log dumping "out of conscience". Of course his logs dumps weren't regarding a protector, but they were pretty damning.

Totally different situation and you know it.

You're new to Planet Bob, aren't you? Log dumping is as traditional as "tech" raiding.

No Im not "new". I may not be as old as you are and definitely am not as well known, thank admin, but Ive been around for quite some time, even longer than my current incarnation would suggest. And, yes I know log dumps are nothing new. What I didnt like about this particular log dump is the reasoning and the timing. They tried to get RoK rolled plain and simple. An alliance that not 2 days previous would have gone to bat for them, and without RoK having anything more than cut diplomatic relations with them, they go and log dump, probably faking the logs, in an attempt to harm those that helped them become what they are today. You can argue that RoK threatened them, but in the end the only concrete action taken against them was the treaty cancellation. Man thats a slap in the face isnt it?

"They cancelled our treaty, oh no*gasp*. Ok lets get them rolled." Great friends they are, lol.

Probably didn't help the cause of world peace, no.

I do not stand for "world peace". I stand for helping and supporting those who I call friends, and those that have helped my nation to get where it is today. I stand for honor and friendship above all else. That is why I speak out against ADI, not because of some mythical idea of world peace. I speak out against them because what they did goes against what i believe is right.

[The Ace Face]

Hey, you all! This ain't about the last war, this be about ADI now.

Though arguments may be centered around Warbuck, try not to get too off topic.

[Michael McBride]

Imminent threat of destruction? Come now, John. Everyone knows that isn't true. Rok and Athens never intended to destroy TPF. If you have proof, besides your added line, please show it.

[KaitlinK]

Imminent threat of destruction? Come now, John. Everyone knows that isn't true. Rok and Athens never intended to destroy TPF. If you have proof, besides your added line, please show it.

Now now give him a minute, his log editing skills are rusty he hasnt done it in what... 3 days?

[LegendoftheSkies]

Imminent threat of destruction? Come now, John. Everyone knows that isn't true. Rok and Athens never intended to destroy TPF. If you have proof, besides your added line, please show it.

This is true. Everyone knows it was Corp that wanted to see TPF destroyed. RoK and Athens were merely acting as our puppets.

Know your facts before you post.

[El Hefe]

Excellent choice ADI. You're in good hands with JW.

[ChairmanHal]

Totally different situation and you know it.

No, unless you are implying that Warbuck didn't want to get Rok hit...that Elyat/Doitzel wanted to get NPO hit is a matter of historical record.

No Im not "new". I may not be as old as you are and definitely am not as well known, thank admin, but Ive been around for quite some time, even longer than my current incarnation would suggest. And, yes I know log dumps are nothing new. What I didnt like about this particular log dump is the reasoning and the timing. They tried to get RoK rolled plain and simple. An alliance that not 2 days previous would have gone to bat for them, and without RoK having anything more than cut diplomatic relations with them, they go and log dump, probably faking the logs, in an attempt to harm those that helped them become what they are today. You can argue that RoK threatened them, but in the end the only concrete action taken against them was the treaty cancellation. Man thats a slap in the face isnt it?

Kinda of puzzling actually. If Rok could prove that the logs were fake (and they claim to have Warbuck's confession of this), then they have a better CB than they had against TPF ( fresher one anyway...).

And no, only a fool would believe that the timing of the release of the logs was pure coincidence. Nor is Warbuck or ADI all that particularly noble on the issue. Then again, neither is Rok. They've verbally bashed the heck out of ADI in this thread and elsewhere. With all that rhetoric you'd expect violence but...

I was genuinely expecting a DoW once Athens stepped aside, but apparently Rok didn't have a stomach for a large war. So it goes.

I do not stand for "world peace". I stand for helping and supporting those who I call friends, and those that have helped my nation to get where it is today. I stand for honor and friendship above all else. That is why I speak out against ADI, not because of some mythical idea of world peace. I speak out against them because what they did goes against what i believe is right.

"What is right." A very nice sentiment. I was also making a bit of a joke there. But hey, if you feel that strongly about it, have your government issue a DoW against ADI. Or are you merely expressing a sentiment?

[white majik]

Can I destroy JW yet.....?

I really dont care either way if he faked logs or anything. I would like to formally challenge John Warbuck to a duel. Do you accept, or do you return to your neutral ways?

[jerdge]

Hey, you all! This ain't about the last war, this be about ADI now.

Though arguments may be centered around Warbuck, try not to get too off topic.

This is about ADI that had a very questionable and questioned behaviour in the last war, dumping logs that look anything but genuine.

The fact that several parties wish to dismantle a self-glorifying Announcement, in which the individual that many hold responsible for that PR debacle had just been nominated King of ADI is entirely on topic.

Sometimes you can't divide a discussion in tiny little pieces without making them all pointless, because the various parts of it are inextricably connected. This is what is happening in this case.

[Edit:grammar]

Edited January 8, 2010 by jerdge

[Keres]

Mutual Love:

Ragnarok and ADI agree to not fight amongst themselves.

Members of each alliance will remember to treat each other like family, refrain from bickering in public.

Each side will continue to share knowledge gained, in the hopes of alerting the other of upcoming dangers.

Id kinda wonder if ADI had knowledge of the whole CC thing or a couter by their "allies" before the RoK treaty was canceled and if thats why they thought this war would put their allies in "danger"...

Considering warbuck saying he had to SHARE all private information/Fake log dumps he had with RoK to ensure his allies knew they were... well whatever... in danger? I guess whatever... id say that he didnt share with both sides even if treaties told him too... before the RoK one was canceled...

Now this is just a personal opinion, But Warbuck mentionned that giving the logs over to FEAR was for that reason, but im just doubting that ADI had no Idea of what the other side was preparing... I personally dont care If he knew anything about the CC side... Only that his reasons for giving (Fake) Logs to the other side were hypocritical at best.

Edit: Added last part for clarification

Edited January 8, 2010 by Deathistan

[Bob Janova]

You're a low level peon so you wouldn't even know if ADI did provide information, but they wouldn't have known anything that RoK did not: that a coalition of TPF's allies and their allies were probably preparing a defensive counterstrike. You cancelled on ADI early enough in the war that there was no particular plan on the CC side.

SpiderJerusalem is in an official position? Wow, that's nearly as inspired as Warbuck.

[Keres]

You're a low level peon so you wouldn't even know if ADI did provide information, but they wouldn't have known anything that RoK did not: that a coalition of TPF's allies and their allies were probably preparing a defensive counterstrike. You cancelled on ADI early enough in the war that there was no particular plan on the CC side.

SpiderJerusalem is in an official position? Wow, that's nearly as inspired as Warbuck.

Im just saying I doubt that they didnt hear anything and I said I didnt realy care, only that Warbuck's reason for giving fake logs over to whoever they wanted in an attempt to have RoK attacked over a line that wasnt even there because they got pissy and then claiming that it was in their treaties to give that kind of info over (even if its fake) is B/S

[SpiderJerusalem]

SpiderJerusalem is in an official position? Wow, that's nearly as inspired as Warbuck.

And what have I done to you, exactly?

[Bob Janova]

To me? Nothing. Nor has Warbuck, but that doesn't mean I think he's great. You do not represent yourself in public (OOC: these boards) in the way I'd expect someone in an official position in FA to.

[SpiderJerusalem]

To me? Nothing. Nor has Warbuck, but that doesn't mean I think he's great. You do not represent yourself in public (OOC: these boards) in the way I'd expect someone in an official position in FA to.

I am not in an official FA position... I was, 1 year ago...

So, come again?

[Bob Janova]

Ah, guess I misunderstood Hal's post on the last page. Carry on then.

[KinKiac]

No, unless you are implying that Warbuck didn't want to get Rok hit...that Elyat/Doitzel wanted to get NPO hit is a matter of historical record.

I still disagree, IMHO that was a totally different situation. ADI has not suffered under the boot heels of RoK, now have they? RoK is also not the leader of the most powerful alliance in the game(at the time) who was bullying and forcing people out of the game(in actuality, not simply expressing a supposed desire for such in some faked logs) while at he same time PZI'ing anyone who dared oppose them. Maybe in a very generalized way the situations are similar, but when you look at the details of the 2 situations they are totally different.

But whatever.

Kinda of puzzling actually. If Rok could prove that the logs were fake (and they claim to have Warbuck's confession of this), then they have a better CB than they had against TPF ( fresher one anyway...).

And no, only a fool would believe that the timing of the release of the logs was pure coincidence. Nor is Warbuck or ADI all that particularly noble on the issue. Then again, neither is Rok. They've verbally bashed the heck out of ADI in this thread and elsewhere. With all that rhetoric you'd expect violence but...

I was genuinely expecting a DoW once Athens stepped aside, but apparently Rok didn't have a stomach for a large war. So it goes.

I think you kinda stated my point, that Warbuck is not exactly "noble" in his intentions, quite the opposite in fact. The other stuff about war I dont really care about and wasnt commenting on. Although I do believe this isnt over for ADI, Mr Warbuck has assured them of such. Welcome to the next global war guys, better hope you are on the winning side. Even then you still might be destroyed as meat shields, have fun.

"What is right." A very nice sentiment. I was also making a bit of a joke there. But hey, if you feel that strongly about it, have your government issue a DoW against ADI. Or are you merely expressing a sentiment?

I think you mis-quoted me there, it was "what I believe is right". I was simply expressing my opinion and reasoning for speaking out on their "stirring of the pot" as it were. I realized that you were kind of joking, but you were kind of implying that my reasoning for speaking out against ADI was due to some desire for world peace, I just wanted to correct you on that.

[Nick1a]

Is it just me, or did anyone else find that oath hilarious?

[Xiphosis]

We know he's a terrible leader willing to dump faked log files, lie about them, and generally betray his allies. But he's on our side now so we're just going to pretend he's a totally cool guy.

I hate to say it, but Penkala nailed it utterly. They don't make them very much lower than you, Warbuck. The truth comes before politics, and you don't seem to understand this.

[hizzy]

Kaplechistan: Then I ask you to repeat after me: "I, John Warbuck of New Aligned States, do solemnly swear . . ."

John Warbuck: I, John Warbuck, of New Aligned States, do solemnly swear

Kaplechistan: "That I will faithfully execute the duties of the throne of Lord High Sentinel . . ."

John Warbuck: That I will faithfully execute the duties of the throne of Lord High Sentinel

Kaplechistan: "And will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Charter and alliance of the Aqua Defense Initiative."

John Warbuck: And will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Charter and alliance of the Aqua Defense Initiative.

Please tell me this is just something you put in to represent a swearing-in ceremony and not an actually IRC chat log...